OT: New grad/profession/school pay….

[davelj]

The sad part is that this is going on – albeit on a more modest, less obvious scale – in almost every city in the nation. It’s the same process. City employee unions support election of City Council members; Council sets pay of senior city employees; senior city employees support pay of City Council; these politicians all set the pay and benefits of the unionized city employees; rinse and repeat. The taxpayers get screwed until they just stop taking it.

[CA renter]

[quote=meadandale]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

[/quote]

M&A,

I also worked my way through college and lived on macaroni and cheese (made with water because I couldn’t afford milk), top ramen, and $.49 chicken sandwiches at AM/PM. My roommates and I had a three bedroom apartment in a working class part of town for $710/month total. I think you and I are about the same age, so we probably had similar tuition & book costs, which were FAR less expensive than what they are today. In contrast, the job I had for many years during college paid around $9.00/hour. Today, that same job might pay around $10-$12/hr. while tuition, books, gas, rent, utilities, etc. are far more expensive.

You’re right about the student loans. Part of the reason behind this student loan/college tuition bubble is because ignorant parents are being convinced that all of their kids have to go away to college and start in a four-year university. Most of my friends and I went the local junior college to local university route, which kept costs down dramatically, and we all had jobs to support ourselves and pay for school or at least pay a significant portion of our school costs. Like you, we were all living **very** cheaply though. I keep counseling other parents not to buy into the trap of out-of-state universities and student loans. It’s a total scam.

BTW, Mr. CAR and I absolutely love Mike Rowe and what he’s trying to do WRT America’s work ethic. He’s so right about what’s ailing this country, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=meadandale]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

[/quote]

M&A,

I also worked my way through college and lived on macaroni and cheese (made with water because I couldn’t afford milk), top ramen, and $.49 chicken sandwiches at AM/PM. My roommates and I had a three bedroom apartment in a working class part of town for $710/month total. I think you and I are about the same age, so we probably had similar tuition & book costs, which were FAR less expensive than what they are today. In contrast, the job I had for many years during college paid around $9.00/hour. Today, that same job might pay around $10-$12/hr. while tuition, books, gas, rent, utilities, etc. are far more expensive.

You’re right about the student loans. Part of the reason behind this student loan/college tuition bubble is because ignorant parents are being convinced that all of their kids have to go away to college and start in a four-year university. Most of my friends and I went the local junior college to local university route, which kept costs down dramatically, and we all had jobs to support ourselves and pay for school or at least pay a significant portion of our school costs. Like you, we were all living **very** cheaply though. I keep counseling other parents not to buy into the trap of out-of-state universities and student loans. It’s a total scam.

BTW, Mr. CAR and I absolutely love Mike Rowe and what he’s trying to do WRT America’s work ethic. He’s so right about what’s ailing this country, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=meadandale]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

[/quote]

M&A,

I also worked my way through college and lived on macaroni and cheese (made with water because I couldn’t afford milk), top ramen, and $.49 chicken sandwiches at AM/PM. My roommates and I had a three bedroom apartment in a working class part of town for $710/month total. I think you and I are about the same age, so we probably had similar tuition & book costs, which were FAR less expensive than what they are today. In contrast, the job I had for many years during college paid around $9.00/hour. Today, that same job might pay around $10-$12/hr. while tuition, books, gas, rent, utilities, etc. are far more expensive.

You’re right about the student loans. Part of the reason behind this student loan/college tuition bubble is because ignorant parents are being convinced that all of their kids have to go away to college and start in a four-year university. Most of my friends and I went the local junior college to local university route, which kept costs down dramatically, and we all had jobs to support ourselves and pay for school or at least pay a significant portion of our school costs. Like you, we were all living **very** cheaply though. I keep counseling other parents not to buy into the trap of out-of-state universities and student loans. It’s a total scam.

BTW, Mr. CAR and I absolutely love Mike Rowe and what he’s trying to do WRT America’s work ethic. He’s so right about what’s ailing this country, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=meadandale]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

[/quote]

M&A,

I also worked my way through college and lived on macaroni and cheese (made with water because I couldn’t afford milk), top ramen, and $.49 chicken sandwiches at AM/PM. My roommates and I had a three bedroom apartment in a working class part of town for $710/month total. I think you and I are about the same age, so we probably had similar tuition & book costs, which were FAR less expensive than what they are today. In contrast, the job I had for many years during college paid around $9.00/hour. Today, that same job might pay around $10-$12/hr. while tuition, books, gas, rent, utilities, etc. are far more expensive.

You’re right about the student loans. Part of the reason behind this student loan/college tuition bubble is because ignorant parents are being convinced that all of their kids have to go away to college and start in a four-year university. Most of my friends and I went the local junior college to local university route, which kept costs down dramatically, and we all had jobs to support ourselves and pay for school or at least pay a significant portion of our school costs. Like you, we were all living **very** cheaply though. I keep counseling other parents not to buy into the trap of out-of-state universities and student loans. It’s a total scam.

BTW, Mr. CAR and I absolutely love Mike Rowe and what he’s trying to do WRT America’s work ethic. He’s so right about what’s ailing this country, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=meadandale]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

[/quote]

M&A,

I also worked my way through college and lived on macaroni and cheese (made with water because I couldn’t afford milk), top ramen, and $.49 chicken sandwiches at AM/PM. My roommates and I had a three bedroom apartment in a working class part of town for $710/month total. I think you and I are about the same age, so we probably had similar tuition & book costs, which were FAR less expensive than what they are today. In contrast, the job I had for many years during college paid around $9.00/hour. Today, that same job might pay around $10-$12/hr. while tuition, books, gas, rent, utilities, etc. are far more expensive.

You’re right about the student loans. Part of the reason behind this student loan/college tuition bubble is because ignorant parents are being convinced that all of their kids have to go away to college and start in a four-year university. Most of my friends and I went the local junior college to local university route, which kept costs down dramatically, and we all had jobs to support ourselves and pay for school or at least pay a significant portion of our school costs. Like you, we were all living **very** cheaply though. I keep counseling other parents not to buy into the trap of out-of-state universities and student loans. It’s a total scam.

BTW, Mr. CAR and I absolutely love Mike Rowe and what he’s trying to do WRT America’s work ethic. He’s so right about what’s ailing this country, IMHO.

[EconProf]

Debate about the military-industrial complex will soon be replaced by talk about the education-industrial complex. Higher education is grossly oversold by a cabal of educrats, professors, politicians, lenders, and other vested interests. The rate of return on college degrees is wildly overstated for several reasons:
1. The lifetime ROR data are for past years and decades, and do not take into account the current experience of recent college graduates in today’s job market–which is not likely to improve much in the near future.
2. The ROR studies do not consider the personal characteristics that differentiate college-bound HS graduates from the non-college-bound. The former generally are already somewhat smarter, more ambitious, better spoken, better connected, have more family wealth, etc., on average. Accordingly, their lifetime earnings would be expected to be higher regardless of college. How much of their higher income can be attributed solely to going to college? That is the question never posed to those overselling college degrees.
3. The type of degree granted matters hugely. My daughter graduated from the afore-mentioned Harvey Mudd College in 2003 and has made little money because her major was English (some coursework taken at adjoining Scripps College). Is now starting on a master’s degree in Accountancy to remedy the earnings problem.
In short, college has been hugely oversold by vested interests, and the victims are the indebted-for-life graduates struggling with dashed job hopes.
If there is one thing to be learned from this experience, it is that incentives matter. In the same way that the housing bubble became so big for so long was because the participants all had the incentives in front of them to keep it going (lenders, buyers, RE professionals, Fannie/Freddie, politicians), so also the education industry has grown due to incentives. Professors’ work loads have fallen over the years and their compensation (especially on a per-hour basis) usually exceeds what they could make in the private sector. College administrative staffs have exploded in number and compensation. Campus facilities and dorms are towers of excess. The students and their parents see college not as an intellectual pursuit but as a consumption item (social life, status, etc), with the degree devalued since “everybody has one”…
As a nation, our pursuit of credentials has left us overeducated in the formal sense of having degrees, but without knowledge and introspection in a broader sense. We are now awakening to this and college enrollements will have a much-needed downward adjustment.

[EconProf]

Debate about the military-industrial complex will soon be replaced by talk about the education-industrial complex. Higher education is grossly oversold by a cabal of educrats, professors, politicians, lenders, and other vested interests. The rate of return on college degrees is wildly overstated for several reasons:
1. The lifetime ROR data are for past years and decades, and do not take into account the current experience of recent college graduates in today’s job market–which is not likely to improve much in the near future.
2. The ROR studies do not consider the personal characteristics that differentiate college-bound HS graduates from the non-college-bound. The former generally are already somewhat smarter, more ambitious, better spoken, better connected, have more family wealth, etc., on average. Accordingly, their lifetime earnings would be expected to be higher regardless of college. How much of their higher income can be attributed solely to going to college? That is the question never posed to those overselling college degrees.
3. The type of degree granted matters hugely. My daughter graduated from the afore-mentioned Harvey Mudd College in 2003 and has made little money because her major was English (some coursework taken at adjoining Scripps College). Is now starting on a master’s degree in Accountancy to remedy the earnings problem.
In short, college has been hugely oversold by vested interests, and the victims are the indebted-for-life graduates struggling with dashed job hopes.
If there is one thing to be learned from this experience, it is that incentives matter. In the same way that the housing bubble became so big for so long was because the participants all had the incentives in front of them to keep it going (lenders, buyers, RE professionals, Fannie/Freddie, politicians), so also the education industry has grown due to incentives. Professors’ work loads have fallen over the years and their compensation (especially on a per-hour basis) usually exceeds what they could make in the private sector. College administrative staffs have exploded in number and compensation. Campus facilities and dorms are towers of excess. The students and their parents see college not as an intellectual pursuit but as a consumption item (social life, status, etc), with the degree devalued since “everybody has one”…
As a nation, our pursuit of credentials has left us overeducated in the formal sense of having degrees, but without knowledge and introspection in a broader sense. We are now awakening to this and college enrollements will have a much-needed downward adjustment.

[EconProf]

Debate about the military-industrial complex will soon be replaced by talk about the education-industrial complex. Higher education is grossly oversold by a cabal of educrats, professors, politicians, lenders, and other vested interests. The rate of return on college degrees is wildly overstated for several reasons:
1. The lifetime ROR data are for past years and decades, and do not take into account the current experience of recent college graduates in today’s job market–which is not likely to improve much in the near future.
2. The ROR studies do not consider the personal characteristics that differentiate college-bound HS graduates from the non-college-bound. The former generally are already somewhat smarter, more ambitious, better spoken, better connected, have more family wealth, etc., on average. Accordingly, their lifetime earnings would be expected to be higher regardless of college. How much of their higher income can be attributed solely to going to college? That is the question never posed to those overselling college degrees.
3. The type of degree granted matters hugely. My daughter graduated from the afore-mentioned Harvey Mudd College in 2003 and has made little money because her major was English (some coursework taken at adjoining Scripps College). Is now starting on a master’s degree in Accountancy to remedy the earnings problem.
In short, college has been hugely oversold by vested interests, and the victims are the indebted-for-life graduates struggling with dashed job hopes.
If there is one thing to be learned from this experience, it is that incentives matter. In the same way that the housing bubble became so big for so long was because the participants all had the incentives in front of them to keep it going (lenders, buyers, RE professionals, Fannie/Freddie, politicians), so also the education industry has grown due to incentives. Professors’ work loads have fallen over the years and their compensation (especially on a per-hour basis) usually exceeds what they could make in the private sector. College administrative staffs have exploded in number and compensation. Campus facilities and dorms are towers of excess. The students and their parents see college not as an intellectual pursuit but as a consumption item (social life, status, etc), with the degree devalued since “everybody has one”…
As a nation, our pursuit of credentials has left us overeducated in the formal sense of having degrees, but without knowledge and introspection in a broader sense. We are now awakening to this and college enrollements will have a much-needed downward adjustment.

[EconProf]

Debate about the military-industrial complex will soon be replaced by talk about the education-industrial complex. Higher education is grossly oversold by a cabal of educrats, professors, politicians, lenders, and other vested interests. The rate of return on college degrees is wildly overstated for several reasons:
1. The lifetime ROR data are for past years and decades, and do not take into account the current experience of recent college graduates in today’s job market–which is not likely to improve much in the near future.
2. The ROR studies do not consider the personal characteristics that differentiate college-bound HS graduates from the non-college-bound. The former generally are already somewhat smarter, more ambitious, better spoken, better connected, have more family wealth, etc., on average. Accordingly, their lifetime earnings would be expected to be higher regardless of college. How much of their higher income can be attributed solely to going to college? That is the question never posed to those overselling college degrees.
3. The type of degree granted matters hugely. My daughter graduated from the afore-mentioned Harvey Mudd College in 2003 and has made little money because her major was English (some coursework taken at adjoining Scripps College). Is now starting on a master’s degree in Accountancy to remedy the earnings problem.
In short, college has been hugely oversold by vested interests, and the victims are the indebted-for-life graduates struggling with dashed job hopes.
If there is one thing to be learned from this experience, it is that incentives matter. In the same way that the housing bubble became so big for so long was because the participants all had the incentives in front of them to keep it going (lenders, buyers, RE professionals, Fannie/Freddie, politicians), so also the education industry has grown due to incentives. Professors’ work loads have fallen over the years and their compensation (especially on a per-hour basis) usually exceeds what they could make in the private sector. College administrative staffs have exploded in number and compensation. Campus facilities and dorms are towers of excess. The students and their parents see college not as an intellectual pursuit but as a consumption item (social life, status, etc), with the degree devalued since “everybody has one”…
As a nation, our pursuit of credentials has left us overeducated in the formal sense of having degrees, but without knowledge and introspection in a broader sense. We are now awakening to this and college enrollements will have a much-needed downward adjustment.

[EconProf]

Debate about the military-industrial complex will soon be replaced by talk about the education-industrial complex. Higher education is grossly oversold by a cabal of educrats, professors, politicians, lenders, and other vested interests. The rate of return on college degrees is wildly overstated for several reasons:
1. The lifetime ROR data are for past years and decades, and do not take into account the current experience of recent college graduates in today’s job market–which is not likely to improve much in the near future.
2. The ROR studies do not consider the personal characteristics that differentiate college-bound HS graduates from the non-college-bound. The former generally are already somewhat smarter, more ambitious, better spoken, better connected, have more family wealth, etc., on average. Accordingly, their lifetime earnings would be expected to be higher regardless of college. How much of their higher income can be attributed solely to going to college? That is the question never posed to those overselling college degrees.
3. The type of degree granted matters hugely. My daughter graduated from the afore-mentioned Harvey Mudd College in 2003 and has made little money because her major was English (some coursework taken at adjoining Scripps College). Is now starting on a master’s degree in Accountancy to remedy the earnings problem.
In short, college has been hugely oversold by vested interests, and the victims are the indebted-for-life graduates struggling with dashed job hopes.
If there is one thing to be learned from this experience, it is that incentives matter. In the same way that the housing bubble became so big for so long was because the participants all had the incentives in front of them to keep it going (lenders, buyers, RE professionals, Fannie/Freddie, politicians), so also the education industry has grown due to incentives. Professors’ work loads have fallen over the years and their compensation (especially on a per-hour basis) usually exceeds what they could make in the private sector. College administrative staffs have exploded in number and compensation. Campus facilities and dorms are towers of excess. The students and their parents see college not as an intellectual pursuit but as a consumption item (social life, status, etc), with the degree devalued since “everybody has one”…
As a nation, our pursuit of credentials has left us overeducated in the formal sense of having degrees, but without knowledge and introspection in a broader sense. We are now awakening to this and college enrollements will have a much-needed downward adjustment.

[joec]

[quote=davelj]

There will always be plenty of engineering jobs here in the US, but… the more generic and outsourceable (I don’t think that’s a word) the work, the greater the likelihood that it eventually ends up overseas. The folks in India, China, etc. are just as smart, more motivated and much cheaper. It’s that simple.

Personally, unless I was really confident I was going to be a major engineering hotshot, I’d avoid most engineering tracks. It looks pretty risky to me.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I think unless you really love engineering (and this applies to any field/career/work), etc…The most important thing is probably to do something you are incredibly passionate about since in any field or business, you will be competing with many people who love what they do so if you don’t want to be there as badly, you’ll eventually get forced out of work.

The environment of the people growing up in India and China is a lot tougher so I think it’s tough for US folks to want to spend 50 years trying to build a foothold to a better life when they are already living it now. This makes it harder to compete since we (they’ve) gotten soft already.

I also know of accountants and ex-lawyers who left because they couldn’t stand dealings with numbers and balance sheets all day and hated billable hours as a lawyer so they should make some courses required reading before folks go to do their CPAs, law or medical degrees.

What they should offer high school juniors and seniors (maybe they do already) is more counseling on careers and a cost analysis and be blunt about things like getting a history degree or sociology or English means no jobs unless you are lucky enough to be a professor (which now requires a PhD)…

[joec]

[quote=davelj]

There will always be plenty of engineering jobs here in the US, but… the more generic and outsourceable (I don’t think that’s a word) the work, the greater the likelihood that it eventually ends up overseas. The folks in India, China, etc. are just as smart, more motivated and much cheaper. It’s that simple.

Personally, unless I was really confident I was going to be a major engineering hotshot, I’d avoid most engineering tracks. It looks pretty risky to me.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I think unless you really love engineering (and this applies to any field/career/work), etc…The most important thing is probably to do something you are incredibly passionate about since in any field or business, you will be competing with many people who love what they do so if you don’t want to be there as badly, you’ll eventually get forced out of work.

The environment of the people growing up in India and China is a lot tougher so I think it’s tough for US folks to want to spend 50 years trying to build a foothold to a better life when they are already living it now. This makes it harder to compete since we (they’ve) gotten soft already.

I also know of accountants and ex-lawyers who left because they couldn’t stand dealings with numbers and balance sheets all day and hated billable hours as a lawyer so they should make some courses required reading before folks go to do their CPAs, law or medical degrees.

What they should offer high school juniors and seniors (maybe they do already) is more counseling on careers and a cost analysis and be blunt about things like getting a history degree or sociology or English means no jobs unless you are lucky enough to be a professor (which now requires a PhD)…

[joec]

[quote=davelj]

There will always be plenty of engineering jobs here in the US, but… the more generic and outsourceable (I don’t think that’s a word) the work, the greater the likelihood that it eventually ends up overseas. The folks in India, China, etc. are just as smart, more motivated and much cheaper. It’s that simple.

Personally, unless I was really confident I was going to be a major engineering hotshot, I’d avoid most engineering tracks. It looks pretty risky to me.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I think unless you really love engineering (and this applies to any field/career/work), etc…The most important thing is probably to do something you are incredibly passionate about since in any field or business, you will be competing with many people who love what they do so if you don’t want to be there as badly, you’ll eventually get forced out of work.

The environment of the people growing up in India and China is a lot tougher so I think it’s tough for US folks to want to spend 50 years trying to build a foothold to a better life when they are already living it now. This makes it harder to compete since we (they’ve) gotten soft already.

I also know of accountants and ex-lawyers who left because they couldn’t stand dealings with numbers and balance sheets all day and hated billable hours as a lawyer so they should make some courses required reading before folks go to do their CPAs, law or medical degrees.

What they should offer high school juniors and seniors (maybe they do already) is more counseling on careers and a cost analysis and be blunt about things like getting a history degree or sociology or English means no jobs unless you are lucky enough to be a professor (which now requires a PhD)…

[joec]

[quote=davelj]

There will always be plenty of engineering jobs here in the US, but… the more generic and outsourceable (I don’t think that’s a word) the work, the greater the likelihood that it eventually ends up overseas. The folks in India, China, etc. are just as smart, more motivated and much cheaper. It’s that simple.

Personally, unless I was really confident I was going to be a major engineering hotshot, I’d avoid most engineering tracks. It looks pretty risky to me.

[/quote]

I agree with this. I think unless you really love engineering (and this applies to any field/career/work), etc…The most important thing is probably to do something you are incredibly passionate about since in any field or business, you will be competing with many people who love what they do so if you don’t want to be there as badly, you’ll eventually get forced out of work.

The environment of the people growing up in India and China is a lot tougher so I think it’s tough for US folks to want to spend 50 years trying to build a foothold to a better life when they are already living it now. This makes it harder to compete since we (they’ve) gotten soft already.

I also know of accountants and ex-lawyers who left because they couldn’t stand dealings with numbers and balance sheets all day and hated billable hours as a lawyer so they should make some courses required reading before folks go to do their CPAs, law or medical degrees.

What they should offer high school juniors and seniors (maybe they do already) is more counseling on careers and a cost analysis and be blunt about things like getting a history degree or sociology or English means no jobs unless you are lucky enough to be a professor (which now requires a PhD)…

[Author]

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