OT: New grad/profession/school pay….

[Coronita]

[quote=bearishgurl]flu, you’re not taking into account here the EXORBITANT costs of EDUCATING an “engineer” vs. what they can expect to make IF and WHEN they finally get hired. Please reread Econprof’s post and do an ROR for yourself on an engineer graduate in a dicey outsourcing job market vs. a student who graduated from a one-year CC ROP program at $26 per credit hour or $780 plus books (you can get them easily at this level “used” on craigslist) who graduates and gets an immediate job at the local Sears as an alignment tech starting at $25-$30 per hr + benefits.

I really don’t see what the current “draw” is for an advanced degree unless your father is a partner in a well-known law firm that is going to pick you up IMMEDIATELY after you pass the bar – so you can start right away making your $1000 mo. student-loan payments.

If the student obtaining a “professional” degree has no “connections” to get a job in a timely manner BEFORE their student loans become due and begin compounding, there is no guaranteed ROR, IMO.[/quote]

Tell you what, BG, if you really think your kid or any kid you have influence over has a brighter future aligning wheels for a living, go for it. It seems like you’ve made up your mind.

I would counter to say that if someone like me who arguably is the worst mechanically inclined person out of all my friends (mind you I’m software engineer) that can take about most audi’s/vw’s and put them back together, what’s to prevent other folks from doing something like this and charging half of what sears does…If in doubt, consider this.

Go take your car into a traditional dealership or jiff-lube to get an oil change and tire rotation and ask them how much it costs…Probably around $20-25…Then take the same car to my el-cheapo guy. He’ll charge you $15 or less…Why? He gets the parts dirt cheap and he pays his workers peanuts, but he does them in high volume….Now…if you suddenly have a flood of mechanics graduated from vocational school, you really think the prospects for raw labor is going to be that great????

Furthermore, where is the potential for that guy who currently makes $15-20 rotating tires 10-15 years later beyond just rotating tires. Is his employer magically going to give him a raise just because he’s older, yet still rotating tires and essentially doing the same thing he/she was when he/she started? Mind you also that as he gets older, physically he isn’t going to be as fit as when he started…His employer will also notice that compared to some other guy just starting out who can do the same job of rotating tires…Where is the barrier to entry that prevents others from entering this vocational trade?
One probably cannot live of of the fruits labor as one gets older. So then what???Ah, depend on “investments”… Ah, but I think there was some argument made in the blog awhile ago about how earnings from investments should be taxed up the ying-yang, because it isn’t “real” money earned like from labor…..

[Coronita]

[quote=desmond]Flu, not everybody wants, or can be an engineer. Some people are realistic that does not mean they are going to quit or be a loser cleaning toilets. Your an engineer, great, get over trying to promote it as the end all. As Judge Small says, the world needs ditch diggers.[/quote]

And that brings be to my to another thread about whether unemployment should be extended. (You probably don’t think it should either)…

But I’m at loss to think on one hand folks saying they can’t find jobs and how unemployment should be extended and at the other at the mere suggestion of doing “have you considered doing XXX”, there’s like a several reasons for why folks say they can’t do/try XXX…

I don’t doubt folks can’t find a job in their profession XYZ. But what I don’t get if XYZ isn’t producing any results, I don’t get why the mere suggestion of trying something else is approached with almost like negative-reenforcement that switching to “XXX” isn’t produce any better results because outsourcing, shrinking budgets, recession is going to hit there too, (name your reason here not to consider that option).

It’s almost as if folks are saying it’s so bad everywhere there’s no point to switching to do something else, even if clearly continuing to look for XYZ isn’t working. excuses after excuses of why that is bound to fail too (even before the attempt is made)..It’s just a very interesting mindset…It’s just seems like folks have given up even before trying.

I guess since everything is going to be outsourced and move overseas, than we can all just stop going to school and just live off the land..And since we’re just going to be farmers, there’s no need reason to learn how to read..Let’s just all be illiterate and unlearned (lucky ones can be trust fund kiddies)…

So let’s put this in perspective.
1)Accounting is now done overseas (hey, it’s just math)
2)Radiology is now done overseas (hey, if 1 in 1000 patients get misdiagnosed, it still works out for the insurance company to pay for that 1 person screwed versus cost saved from hiring someone overseas)
3)No need to farm here ,since it’s obviously cheaper to grow tainted food and ship them here than it is to grow them here, and since truth in labeling is a farce anyway
4)If no one’s going to college, no need for professors

That leaves us…..Government Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!Hmmm…Maybe folks are on to something….

I guess it’s just a different mindset. When I was growing up, there was a clear distinction in what one would like to do versus one practically should be doing to make a living…So for example, while I wanted to be an physics major, practicality was that I wouldn’t be able to find a decent career out of it to choose that major. On the other hand, it just seems like the opposite happens a lot in which folks choose something because they “like it”, without consideration of whether it can be economically sustainable. Engineering is a posterchild of this anti-practicality, in that while it’s probably a more practical thing that doesn’t get any glory whatsoever, it doesn’t take THAT much guruness to do OK, and yet it’s the one that very few Americans ever consider… It’s a different situation if you are a Trump and have the luxury of living off of family wealth and want to major in some obscure degree or something like that. But for the remaining 90% of the population, that isn’t feasible….

…At any rate, the benefits have been extended so a lot of folks can delay an inevitable painful decision for another couple of months….

You’re right in that in this world, some people have no choice but to be dig ditchers. But, I think often times, people walk themselves into the ditch digging business because they think they can’t do anything else or it’s bad everywhere else, so why bother. I really don’t give a flying fvck about enginerds/eginerding itself. What really bothers me is that it just seems like as a country we’ve given up on everything that mattered, and almost self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. What ever happened to the do or die attitude that once was prevalent in America? Is it really a lost cause?

[Coronita]

[quote=desmond]Flu, not everybody wants, or can be an engineer. Some people are realistic that does not mean they are going to quit or be a loser cleaning toilets. Your an engineer, great, get over trying to promote it as the end all. As Judge Small says, the world needs ditch diggers.[/quote]

And that brings be to my to another thread about whether unemployment should be extended. (You probably don’t think it should either)…

But I’m at loss to think on one hand folks saying they can’t find jobs and how unemployment should be extended and at the other at the mere suggestion of doing “have you considered doing XXX”, there’s like a several reasons for why folks say they can’t do/try XXX…

I don’t doubt folks can’t find a job in their profession XYZ. But what I don’t get if XYZ isn’t producing any results, I don’t get why the mere suggestion of trying something else is approached with almost like negative-reenforcement that switching to “XXX” isn’t produce any better results because outsourcing, shrinking budgets, recession is going to hit there too, (name your reason here not to consider that option).

It’s almost as if folks are saying it’s so bad everywhere there’s no point to switching to do something else, even if clearly continuing to look for XYZ isn’t working. excuses after excuses of why that is bound to fail too (even before the attempt is made)..It’s just a very interesting mindset…It’s just seems like folks have given up even before trying.

I guess since everything is going to be outsourced and move overseas, than we can all just stop going to school and just live off the land..And since we’re just going to be farmers, there’s no need reason to learn how to read..Let’s just all be illiterate and unlearned (lucky ones can be trust fund kiddies)…

So let’s put this in perspective.
1)Accounting is now done overseas (hey, it’s just math)
2)Radiology is now done overseas (hey, if 1 in 1000 patients get misdiagnosed, it still works out for the insurance company to pay for that 1 person screwed versus cost saved from hiring someone overseas)
3)No need to farm here ,since it’s obviously cheaper to grow tainted food and ship them here than it is to grow them here, and since truth in labeling is a farce anyway
4)If no one’s going to college, no need for professors

That leaves us…..Government Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!Hmmm…Maybe folks are on to something….

I guess it’s just a different mindset. When I was growing up, there was a clear distinction in what one would like to do versus one practically should be doing to make a living…So for example, while I wanted to be an physics major, practicality was that I wouldn’t be able to find a decent career out of it to choose that major. On the other hand, it just seems like the opposite happens a lot in which folks choose something because they “like it”, without consideration of whether it can be economically sustainable. Engineering is a posterchild of this anti-practicality, in that while it’s probably a more practical thing that doesn’t get any glory whatsoever, it doesn’t take THAT much guruness to do OK, and yet it’s the one that very few Americans ever consider… It’s a different situation if you are a Trump and have the luxury of living off of family wealth and want to major in some obscure degree or something like that. But for the remaining 90% of the population, that isn’t feasible….

…At any rate, the benefits have been extended so a lot of folks can delay an inevitable painful decision for another couple of months….

You’re right in that in this world, some people have no choice but to be dig ditchers. But, I think often times, people walk themselves into the ditch digging business because they think they can’t do anything else or it’s bad everywhere else, so why bother. I really don’t give a flying fvck about enginerds/eginerding itself. What really bothers me is that it just seems like as a country we’ve given up on everything that mattered, and almost self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. What ever happened to the do or die attitude that once was prevalent in America? Is it really a lost cause?

[Coronita]

[quote=desmond]Flu, not everybody wants, or can be an engineer. Some people are realistic that does not mean they are going to quit or be a loser cleaning toilets. Your an engineer, great, get over trying to promote it as the end all. As Judge Small says, the world needs ditch diggers.[/quote]

And that brings be to my to another thread about whether unemployment should be extended. (You probably don’t think it should either)…

But I’m at loss to think on one hand folks saying they can’t find jobs and how unemployment should be extended and at the other at the mere suggestion of doing “have you considered doing XXX”, there’s like a several reasons for why folks say they can’t do/try XXX…

I don’t doubt folks can’t find a job in their profession XYZ. But what I don’t get if XYZ isn’t producing any results, I don’t get why the mere suggestion of trying something else is approached with almost like negative-reenforcement that switching to “XXX” isn’t produce any better results because outsourcing, shrinking budgets, recession is going to hit there too, (name your reason here not to consider that option).

It’s almost as if folks are saying it’s so bad everywhere there’s no point to switching to do something else, even if clearly continuing to look for XYZ isn’t working. excuses after excuses of why that is bound to fail too (even before the attempt is made)..It’s just a very interesting mindset…It’s just seems like folks have given up even before trying.

I guess since everything is going to be outsourced and move overseas, than we can all just stop going to school and just live off the land..And since we’re just going to be farmers, there’s no need reason to learn how to read..Let’s just all be illiterate and unlearned (lucky ones can be trust fund kiddies)…

So let’s put this in perspective.
1)Accounting is now done overseas (hey, it’s just math)
2)Radiology is now done overseas (hey, if 1 in 1000 patients get misdiagnosed, it still works out for the insurance company to pay for that 1 person screwed versus cost saved from hiring someone overseas)
3)No need to farm here ,since it’s obviously cheaper to grow tainted food and ship them here than it is to grow them here, and since truth in labeling is a farce anyway
4)If no one’s going to college, no need for professors

That leaves us…..Government Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!Hmmm…Maybe folks are on to something….

I guess it’s just a different mindset. When I was growing up, there was a clear distinction in what one would like to do versus one practically should be doing to make a living…So for example, while I wanted to be an physics major, practicality was that I wouldn’t be able to find a decent career out of it to choose that major. On the other hand, it just seems like the opposite happens a lot in which folks choose something because they “like it”, without consideration of whether it can be economically sustainable. Engineering is a posterchild of this anti-practicality, in that while it’s probably a more practical thing that doesn’t get any glory whatsoever, it doesn’t take THAT much guruness to do OK, and yet it’s the one that very few Americans ever consider… It’s a different situation if you are a Trump and have the luxury of living off of family wealth and want to major in some obscure degree or something like that. But for the remaining 90% of the population, that isn’t feasible….

…At any rate, the benefits have been extended so a lot of folks can delay an inevitable painful decision for another couple of months….

You’re right in that in this world, some people have no choice but to be dig ditchers. But, I think often times, people walk themselves into the ditch digging business because they think they can’t do anything else or it’s bad everywhere else, so why bother. I really don’t give a flying fvck about enginerds/eginerding itself. What really bothers me is that it just seems like as a country we’ve given up on everything that mattered, and almost self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. What ever happened to the do or die attitude that once was prevalent in America? Is it really a lost cause?

[Coronita]

[quote=desmond]Flu, not everybody wants, or can be an engineer. Some people are realistic that does not mean they are going to quit or be a loser cleaning toilets. Your an engineer, great, get over trying to promote it as the end all. As Judge Small says, the world needs ditch diggers.[/quote]

And that brings be to my to another thread about whether unemployment should be extended. (You probably don’t think it should either)…

But I’m at loss to think on one hand folks saying they can’t find jobs and how unemployment should be extended and at the other at the mere suggestion of doing “have you considered doing XXX”, there’s like a several reasons for why folks say they can’t do/try XXX…

I don’t doubt folks can’t find a job in their profession XYZ. But what I don’t get if XYZ isn’t producing any results, I don’t get why the mere suggestion of trying something else is approached with almost like negative-reenforcement that switching to “XXX” isn’t produce any better results because outsourcing, shrinking budgets, recession is going to hit there too, (name your reason here not to consider that option).

It’s almost as if folks are saying it’s so bad everywhere there’s no point to switching to do something else, even if clearly continuing to look for XYZ isn’t working. excuses after excuses of why that is bound to fail too (even before the attempt is made)..It’s just a very interesting mindset…It’s just seems like folks have given up even before trying.

I guess since everything is going to be outsourced and move overseas, than we can all just stop going to school and just live off the land..And since we’re just going to be farmers, there’s no need reason to learn how to read..Let’s just all be illiterate and unlearned (lucky ones can be trust fund kiddies)…

So let’s put this in perspective.
1)Accounting is now done overseas (hey, it’s just math)
2)Radiology is now done overseas (hey, if 1 in 1000 patients get misdiagnosed, it still works out for the insurance company to pay for that 1 person screwed versus cost saved from hiring someone overseas)
3)No need to farm here ,since it’s obviously cheaper to grow tainted food and ship them here than it is to grow them here, and since truth in labeling is a farce anyway
4)If no one’s going to college, no need for professors

That leaves us…..Government Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!Hmmm…Maybe folks are on to something….

I guess it’s just a different mindset. When I was growing up, there was a clear distinction in what one would like to do versus one practically should be doing to make a living…So for example, while I wanted to be an physics major, practicality was that I wouldn’t be able to find a decent career out of it to choose that major. On the other hand, it just seems like the opposite happens a lot in which folks choose something because they “like it”, without consideration of whether it can be economically sustainable. Engineering is a posterchild of this anti-practicality, in that while it’s probably a more practical thing that doesn’t get any glory whatsoever, it doesn’t take THAT much guruness to do OK, and yet it’s the one that very few Americans ever consider… It’s a different situation if you are a Trump and have the luxury of living off of family wealth and want to major in some obscure degree or something like that. But for the remaining 90% of the population, that isn’t feasible….

…At any rate, the benefits have been extended so a lot of folks can delay an inevitable painful decision for another couple of months….

You’re right in that in this world, some people have no choice but to be dig ditchers. But, I think often times, people walk themselves into the ditch digging business because they think they can’t do anything else or it’s bad everywhere else, so why bother. I really don’t give a flying fvck about enginerds/eginerding itself. What really bothers me is that it just seems like as a country we’ve given up on everything that mattered, and almost self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. What ever happened to the do or die attitude that once was prevalent in America? Is it really a lost cause?

[Coronita]

[quote=desmond]Flu, not everybody wants, or can be an engineer. Some people are realistic that does not mean they are going to quit or be a loser cleaning toilets. Your an engineer, great, get over trying to promote it as the end all. As Judge Small says, the world needs ditch diggers.[/quote]

And that brings be to my to another thread about whether unemployment should be extended. (You probably don’t think it should either)…

But I’m at loss to think on one hand folks saying they can’t find jobs and how unemployment should be extended and at the other at the mere suggestion of doing “have you considered doing XXX”, there’s like a several reasons for why folks say they can’t do/try XXX…

I don’t doubt folks can’t find a job in their profession XYZ. But what I don’t get if XYZ isn’t producing any results, I don’t get why the mere suggestion of trying something else is approached with almost like negative-reenforcement that switching to “XXX” isn’t produce any better results because outsourcing, shrinking budgets, recession is going to hit there too, (name your reason here not to consider that option).

It’s almost as if folks are saying it’s so bad everywhere there’s no point to switching to do something else, even if clearly continuing to look for XYZ isn’t working. excuses after excuses of why that is bound to fail too (even before the attempt is made)..It’s just a very interesting mindset…It’s just seems like folks have given up even before trying.

I guess since everything is going to be outsourced and move overseas, than we can all just stop going to school and just live off the land..And since we’re just going to be farmers, there’s no need reason to learn how to read..Let’s just all be illiterate and unlearned (lucky ones can be trust fund kiddies)…

So let’s put this in perspective.
1)Accounting is now done overseas (hey, it’s just math)
2)Radiology is now done overseas (hey, if 1 in 1000 patients get misdiagnosed, it still works out for the insurance company to pay for that 1 person screwed versus cost saved from hiring someone overseas)
3)No need to farm here ,since it’s obviously cheaper to grow tainted food and ship them here than it is to grow them here, and since truth in labeling is a farce anyway
4)If no one’s going to college, no need for professors

That leaves us…..Government Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!Hmmm…Maybe folks are on to something….

I guess it’s just a different mindset. When I was growing up, there was a clear distinction in what one would like to do versus one practically should be doing to make a living…So for example, while I wanted to be an physics major, practicality was that I wouldn’t be able to find a decent career out of it to choose that major. On the other hand, it just seems like the opposite happens a lot in which folks choose something because they “like it”, without consideration of whether it can be economically sustainable. Engineering is a posterchild of this anti-practicality, in that while it’s probably a more practical thing that doesn’t get any glory whatsoever, it doesn’t take THAT much guruness to do OK, and yet it’s the one that very few Americans ever consider… It’s a different situation if you are a Trump and have the luxury of living off of family wealth and want to major in some obscure degree or something like that. But for the remaining 90% of the population, that isn’t feasible….

…At any rate, the benefits have been extended so a lot of folks can delay an inevitable painful decision for another couple of months….

You’re right in that in this world, some people have no choice but to be dig ditchers. But, I think often times, people walk themselves into the ditch digging business because they think they can’t do anything else or it’s bad everywhere else, so why bother. I really don’t give a flying fvck about enginerds/eginerding itself. What really bothers me is that it just seems like as a country we’ve given up on everything that mattered, and almost self-fulfilling prophecy of failure. What ever happened to the do or die attitude that once was prevalent in America? Is it really a lost cause?

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]I love where this is going…

Dear kid(s),

You suck at everything .You’ll never be able to compete with everyone else…Go be a mechanic and fix things the rest of the world is capable of creating..or go clean some toilets, or if you’re lucky, live with mommy/daddy’s trust fund they left you..

Now I understand why it’s been difficult to fill some positions or for that matter why this country is more or less screwed. 🙂

A good portion from most of those engineering types from India and China BTW aren’t “hotshots” by any means..More like a “copycats”, which I’m sure folks in biz can verify.[/quote]

flu,

A quote from one of my prior posts:

We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

Somehow, you’ve misconstrued this (and similar statements from other posters) as encouraging all of our kids to be ditch diggers (not that there’s anything wrong with that profession, BTW). I specifically said that we needed to be the BEST at what we do, but we should be doing all kinds of work, so that we can be more nimble and flexible when things shift. I specifically advocate being competitive when I say we need to be the BEST in a variety of fields.

You, yourself, eluded to the need for people to be able to go from job XYZ to job XXX. You can’t do that if we’re all trained in the same narrow fields. As a country, we cannot afford to all go into engineering because **it will weaken us** when the tides turn toward other industries that might not require engineering degrees/talent. No offense, but engineering is not the end-all-be-all of our society. It is important, but many (most?)of our greatest inventions came from non-engineers. Engineers come in handy when you want to convert an idea into reality, but they are not the backbone of our country. We need to respect ALL kinds of work, and the people who do it.

In some ways, a liberal arts degree can be beneficial because it helps people think “outside the box.” Focusing on one major/field of study and relying on others to regurgitate to us what “the experts” claim as fact tends to make us blind to other possibilities.

I’ll bet that the great majority of “successful” people in the world today do NOT have engineering degrees.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]I love where this is going…

Dear kid(s),

You suck at everything .You’ll never be able to compete with everyone else…Go be a mechanic and fix things the rest of the world is capable of creating..or go clean some toilets, or if you’re lucky, live with mommy/daddy’s trust fund they left you..

Now I understand why it’s been difficult to fill some positions or for that matter why this country is more or less screwed. 🙂

A good portion from most of those engineering types from India and China BTW aren’t “hotshots” by any means..More like a “copycats”, which I’m sure folks in biz can verify.[/quote]

flu,

A quote from one of my prior posts:

We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

Somehow, you’ve misconstrued this (and similar statements from other posters) as encouraging all of our kids to be ditch diggers (not that there’s anything wrong with that profession, BTW). I specifically said that we needed to be the BEST at what we do, but we should be doing all kinds of work, so that we can be more nimble and flexible when things shift. I specifically advocate being competitive when I say we need to be the BEST in a variety of fields.

You, yourself, eluded to the need for people to be able to go from job XYZ to job XXX. You can’t do that if we’re all trained in the same narrow fields. As a country, we cannot afford to all go into engineering because **it will weaken us** when the tides turn toward other industries that might not require engineering degrees/talent. No offense, but engineering is not the end-all-be-all of our society. It is important, but many (most?)of our greatest inventions came from non-engineers. Engineers come in handy when you want to convert an idea into reality, but they are not the backbone of our country. We need to respect ALL kinds of work, and the people who do it.

In some ways, a liberal arts degree can be beneficial because it helps people think “outside the box.” Focusing on one major/field of study and relying on others to regurgitate to us what “the experts” claim as fact tends to make us blind to other possibilities.

I’ll bet that the great majority of “successful” people in the world today do NOT have engineering degrees.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]I love where this is going…

Dear kid(s),

You suck at everything .You’ll never be able to compete with everyone else…Go be a mechanic and fix things the rest of the world is capable of creating..or go clean some toilets, or if you’re lucky, live with mommy/daddy’s trust fund they left you..

Now I understand why it’s been difficult to fill some positions or for that matter why this country is more or less screwed. 🙂

A good portion from most of those engineering types from India and China BTW aren’t “hotshots” by any means..More like a “copycats”, which I’m sure folks in biz can verify.[/quote]

flu,

A quote from one of my prior posts:

We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

Somehow, you’ve misconstrued this (and similar statements from other posters) as encouraging all of our kids to be ditch diggers (not that there’s anything wrong with that profession, BTW). I specifically said that we needed to be the BEST at what we do, but we should be doing all kinds of work, so that we can be more nimble and flexible when things shift. I specifically advocate being competitive when I say we need to be the BEST in a variety of fields.

You, yourself, eluded to the need for people to be able to go from job XYZ to job XXX. You can’t do that if we’re all trained in the same narrow fields. As a country, we cannot afford to all go into engineering because **it will weaken us** when the tides turn toward other industries that might not require engineering degrees/talent. No offense, but engineering is not the end-all-be-all of our society. It is important, but many (most?)of our greatest inventions came from non-engineers. Engineers come in handy when you want to convert an idea into reality, but they are not the backbone of our country. We need to respect ALL kinds of work, and the people who do it.

In some ways, a liberal arts degree can be beneficial because it helps people think “outside the box.” Focusing on one major/field of study and relying on others to regurgitate to us what “the experts” claim as fact tends to make us blind to other possibilities.

I’ll bet that the great majority of “successful” people in the world today do NOT have engineering degrees.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]I love where this is going…

Dear kid(s),

You suck at everything .You’ll never be able to compete with everyone else…Go be a mechanic and fix things the rest of the world is capable of creating..or go clean some toilets, or if you’re lucky, live with mommy/daddy’s trust fund they left you..

Now I understand why it’s been difficult to fill some positions or for that matter why this country is more or less screwed. 🙂

A good portion from most of those engineering types from India and China BTW aren’t “hotshots” by any means..More like a “copycats”, which I’m sure folks in biz can verify.[/quote]

flu,

A quote from one of my prior posts:

We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

Somehow, you’ve misconstrued this (and similar statements from other posters) as encouraging all of our kids to be ditch diggers (not that there’s anything wrong with that profession, BTW). I specifically said that we needed to be the BEST at what we do, but we should be doing all kinds of work, so that we can be more nimble and flexible when things shift. I specifically advocate being competitive when I say we need to be the BEST in a variety of fields.

You, yourself, eluded to the need for people to be able to go from job XYZ to job XXX. You can’t do that if we’re all trained in the same narrow fields. As a country, we cannot afford to all go into engineering because **it will weaken us** when the tides turn toward other industries that might not require engineering degrees/talent. No offense, but engineering is not the end-all-be-all of our society. It is important, but many (most?)of our greatest inventions came from non-engineers. Engineers come in handy when you want to convert an idea into reality, but they are not the backbone of our country. We need to respect ALL kinds of work, and the people who do it.

In some ways, a liberal arts degree can be beneficial because it helps people think “outside the box.” Focusing on one major/field of study and relying on others to regurgitate to us what “the experts” claim as fact tends to make us blind to other possibilities.

I’ll bet that the great majority of “successful” people in the world today do NOT have engineering degrees.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]I love where this is going…

Dear kid(s),

You suck at everything .You’ll never be able to compete with everyone else…Go be a mechanic and fix things the rest of the world is capable of creating..or go clean some toilets, or if you’re lucky, live with mommy/daddy’s trust fund they left you..

Now I understand why it’s been difficult to fill some positions or for that matter why this country is more or less screwed. 🙂

A good portion from most of those engineering types from India and China BTW aren’t “hotshots” by any means..More like a “copycats”, which I’m sure folks in biz can verify.[/quote]

flu,

A quote from one of my prior posts:

We need to encourage our kids to go into different fields and become the **best** at what they do, whatever it may be. That is what has and what will make this country great, IMHO.

Somehow, you’ve misconstrued this (and similar statements from other posters) as encouraging all of our kids to be ditch diggers (not that there’s anything wrong with that profession, BTW). I specifically said that we needed to be the BEST at what we do, but we should be doing all kinds of work, so that we can be more nimble and flexible when things shift. I specifically advocate being competitive when I say we need to be the BEST in a variety of fields.

You, yourself, eluded to the need for people to be able to go from job XYZ to job XXX. You can’t do that if we’re all trained in the same narrow fields. As a country, we cannot afford to all go into engineering because **it will weaken us** when the tides turn toward other industries that might not require engineering degrees/talent. No offense, but engineering is not the end-all-be-all of our society. It is important, but many (most?)of our greatest inventions came from non-engineers. Engineers come in handy when you want to convert an idea into reality, but they are not the backbone of our country. We need to respect ALL kinds of work, and the people who do it.

In some ways, a liberal arts degree can be beneficial because it helps people think “outside the box.” Focusing on one major/field of study and relying on others to regurgitate to us what “the experts” claim as fact tends to make us blind to other possibilities.

I’ll bet that the great majority of “successful” people in the world today do NOT have engineering degrees.

[scaredyclassic]

as we learn in world war z, post-zombie apocalypse, management will be nothing, it will all be about concrete skills. forget lawyering — can you build a wall? mechanical repair? think about the needs of the marketplace when zombies walk the earth.

[scaredyclassic]

as we learn in world war z, post-zombie apocalypse, management will be nothing, it will all be about concrete skills. forget lawyering — can you build a wall? mechanical repair? think about the needs of the marketplace when zombies walk the earth.

[scaredyclassic]

as we learn in world war z, post-zombie apocalypse, management will be nothing, it will all be about concrete skills. forget lawyering — can you build a wall? mechanical repair? think about the needs of the marketplace when zombies walk the earth.

[scaredyclassic]

as we learn in world war z, post-zombie apocalypse, management will be nothing, it will all be about concrete skills. forget lawyering — can you build a wall? mechanical repair? think about the needs of the marketplace when zombies walk the earth.

[Author]

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