OT: New grad/profession/school pay….

[davelj]

[quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.

[bearishgurl]

Agree, davelj, but try selling this to employers. Having always been a “cog,” I know my place in Cogville. However, most employers don’t think they need any more cogs or can just get more production out of the cog(s) they already have. The cogs they already have are complaining because they are being blamed for work not getting done due to retirements/layoffs, etc. and can’t easily take a vacation.

Slightly OT: If given the choice, employers will hire a young, inexperienced cog even if they desperately need an experienced cog. It all boils down to wages that a new cog might accept and percieved cost of health insurance. It never occurs to the employer that an experienced cog might be able to get the work done CORRECTLY in less hours and might already HAVE health insurance. They’re also CLUELESS about how much potential disability or FML that a younger, inexperienced cog might take in relation to an older cog. THE FACT IS, the younger cog takes MORE LEAVE, OF EVERY TYPE than the older cog and files MORE WORKERS COMPENSATION claims. I know this from experience and have laughed at employers before who have hired someone over me who went out on long-term leave within weeks or months of taking the position, causing them to repost it. This was the GRAND PLAN of the applicant from the get go, in order to qualify for SDI and FML for maternity purposes, never intending to return to work. This practice is perfectly legal (incl. non-disclosure at the time of hire of impending maternity needs).

Sure, tragedies such as cancer befall older cogs more. In this case, however, when the older cog leaves for treatment, they typically can qualify for SSD, never to return to work and thus do not tie up the position.

There are MANY older former cogs 50-65 years old (myself incl) that would LIKE to be a cog again (even pt. time) rather than self-employed or consulting but get beat out of even pt-time cog positions every time by know-nothing young cogs who think they are actually chiefs.

The boomer “shadow-cogs” are NOT COUNTED in the unemployment figures because they gave up long ago and thus are ineligible for UI. The general public and mainstream media does not really care about this issue because older “shadow cogs” typically have the tenacity, resources, wherewithal and prudence to eek out a living no matter what the economic conditions.

If you add this “shadow-cog” element into the mix, unemployment figures for this area might be 17% or more. There are MILLIONS of boomer “former shadow cogs.” We are mindful, healthy, have proper clothing, running cars, a place to live, don’t have problems keeping a schedule and can pass the “credit-check” test for employment. Regardless of everything I said here, employers, for the most part, are “enamored” of young “chief-applicants” they think they can turn into cogs at the expense of all other applicants. This will never change :={

[bearishgurl]

Agree, davelj, but try selling this to employers. Having always been a “cog,” I know my place in Cogville. However, most employers don’t think they need any more cogs or can just get more production out of the cog(s) they already have. The cogs they already have are complaining because they are being blamed for work not getting done due to retirements/layoffs, etc. and can’t easily take a vacation.

Slightly OT: If given the choice, employers will hire a young, inexperienced cog even if they desperately need an experienced cog. It all boils down to wages that a new cog might accept and percieved cost of health insurance. It never occurs to the employer that an experienced cog might be able to get the work done CORRECTLY in less hours and might already HAVE health insurance. They’re also CLUELESS about how much potential disability or FML that a younger, inexperienced cog might take in relation to an older cog. THE FACT IS, the younger cog takes MORE LEAVE, OF EVERY TYPE than the older cog and files MORE WORKERS COMPENSATION claims. I know this from experience and have laughed at employers before who have hired someone over me who went out on long-term leave within weeks or months of taking the position, causing them to repost it. This was the GRAND PLAN of the applicant from the get go, in order to qualify for SDI and FML for maternity purposes, never intending to return to work. This practice is perfectly legal (incl. non-disclosure at the time of hire of impending maternity needs).

Sure, tragedies such as cancer befall older cogs more. In this case, however, when the older cog leaves for treatment, they typically can qualify for SSD, never to return to work and thus do not tie up the position.

There are MANY older former cogs 50-65 years old (myself incl) that would LIKE to be a cog again (even pt. time) rather than self-employed or consulting but get beat out of even pt-time cog positions every time by know-nothing young cogs who think they are actually chiefs.

The boomer “shadow-cogs” are NOT COUNTED in the unemployment figures because they gave up long ago and thus are ineligible for UI. The general public and mainstream media does not really care about this issue because older “shadow cogs” typically have the tenacity, resources, wherewithal and prudence to eek out a living no matter what the economic conditions.

If you add this “shadow-cog” element into the mix, unemployment figures for this area might be 17% or more. There are MILLIONS of boomer “former shadow cogs.” We are mindful, healthy, have proper clothing, running cars, a place to live, don’t have problems keeping a schedule and can pass the “credit-check” test for employment. Regardless of everything I said here, employers, for the most part, are “enamored” of young “chief-applicants” they think they can turn into cogs at the expense of all other applicants. This will never change :={

[bearishgurl]

Agree, davelj, but try selling this to employers. Having always been a “cog,” I know my place in Cogville. However, most employers don’t think they need any more cogs or can just get more production out of the cog(s) they already have. The cogs they already have are complaining because they are being blamed for work not getting done due to retirements/layoffs, etc. and can’t easily take a vacation.

Slightly OT: If given the choice, employers will hire a young, inexperienced cog even if they desperately need an experienced cog. It all boils down to wages that a new cog might accept and percieved cost of health insurance. It never occurs to the employer that an experienced cog might be able to get the work done CORRECTLY in less hours and might already HAVE health insurance. They’re also CLUELESS about how much potential disability or FML that a younger, inexperienced cog might take in relation to an older cog. THE FACT IS, the younger cog takes MORE LEAVE, OF EVERY TYPE than the older cog and files MORE WORKERS COMPENSATION claims. I know this from experience and have laughed at employers before who have hired someone over me who went out on long-term leave within weeks or months of taking the position, causing them to repost it. This was the GRAND PLAN of the applicant from the get go, in order to qualify for SDI and FML for maternity purposes, never intending to return to work. This practice is perfectly legal (incl. non-disclosure at the time of hire of impending maternity needs).

Sure, tragedies such as cancer befall older cogs more. In this case, however, when the older cog leaves for treatment, they typically can qualify for SSD, never to return to work and thus do not tie up the position.

There are MANY older former cogs 50-65 years old (myself incl) that would LIKE to be a cog again (even pt. time) rather than self-employed or consulting but get beat out of even pt-time cog positions every time by know-nothing young cogs who think they are actually chiefs.

The boomer “shadow-cogs” are NOT COUNTED in the unemployment figures because they gave up long ago and thus are ineligible for UI. The general public and mainstream media does not really care about this issue because older “shadow cogs” typically have the tenacity, resources, wherewithal and prudence to eek out a living no matter what the economic conditions.

If you add this “shadow-cog” element into the mix, unemployment figures for this area might be 17% or more. There are MILLIONS of boomer “former shadow cogs.” We are mindful, healthy, have proper clothing, running cars, a place to live, don’t have problems keeping a schedule and can pass the “credit-check” test for employment. Regardless of everything I said here, employers, for the most part, are “enamored” of young “chief-applicants” they think they can turn into cogs at the expense of all other applicants. This will never change :={

[bearishgurl]

Agree, davelj, but try selling this to employers. Having always been a “cog,” I know my place in Cogville. However, most employers don’t think they need any more cogs or can just get more production out of the cog(s) they already have. The cogs they already have are complaining because they are being blamed for work not getting done due to retirements/layoffs, etc. and can’t easily take a vacation.

Slightly OT: If given the choice, employers will hire a young, inexperienced cog even if they desperately need an experienced cog. It all boils down to wages that a new cog might accept and percieved cost of health insurance. It never occurs to the employer that an experienced cog might be able to get the work done CORRECTLY in less hours and might already HAVE health insurance. They’re also CLUELESS about how much potential disability or FML that a younger, inexperienced cog might take in relation to an older cog. THE FACT IS, the younger cog takes MORE LEAVE, OF EVERY TYPE than the older cog and files MORE WORKERS COMPENSATION claims. I know this from experience and have laughed at employers before who have hired someone over me who went out on long-term leave within weeks or months of taking the position, causing them to repost it. This was the GRAND PLAN of the applicant from the get go, in order to qualify for SDI and FML for maternity purposes, never intending to return to work. This practice is perfectly legal (incl. non-disclosure at the time of hire of impending maternity needs).

Sure, tragedies such as cancer befall older cogs more. In this case, however, when the older cog leaves for treatment, they typically can qualify for SSD, never to return to work and thus do not tie up the position.

There are MANY older former cogs 50-65 years old (myself incl) that would LIKE to be a cog again (even pt. time) rather than self-employed or consulting but get beat out of even pt-time cog positions every time by know-nothing young cogs who think they are actually chiefs.

The boomer “shadow-cogs” are NOT COUNTED in the unemployment figures because they gave up long ago and thus are ineligible for UI. The general public and mainstream media does not really care about this issue because older “shadow cogs” typically have the tenacity, resources, wherewithal and prudence to eek out a living no matter what the economic conditions.

If you add this “shadow-cog” element into the mix, unemployment figures for this area might be 17% or more. There are MILLIONS of boomer “former shadow cogs.” We are mindful, healthy, have proper clothing, running cars, a place to live, don’t have problems keeping a schedule and can pass the “credit-check” test for employment. Regardless of everything I said here, employers, for the most part, are “enamored” of young “chief-applicants” they think they can turn into cogs at the expense of all other applicants. This will never change :={

[bearishgurl]

Agree, davelj, but try selling this to employers. Having always been a “cog,” I know my place in Cogville. However, most employers don’t think they need any more cogs or can just get more production out of the cog(s) they already have. The cogs they already have are complaining because they are being blamed for work not getting done due to retirements/layoffs, etc. and can’t easily take a vacation.

Slightly OT: If given the choice, employers will hire a young, inexperienced cog even if they desperately need an experienced cog. It all boils down to wages that a new cog might accept and percieved cost of health insurance. It never occurs to the employer that an experienced cog might be able to get the work done CORRECTLY in less hours and might already HAVE health insurance. They’re also CLUELESS about how much potential disability or FML that a younger, inexperienced cog might take in relation to an older cog. THE FACT IS, the younger cog takes MORE LEAVE, OF EVERY TYPE than the older cog and files MORE WORKERS COMPENSATION claims. I know this from experience and have laughed at employers before who have hired someone over me who went out on long-term leave within weeks or months of taking the position, causing them to repost it. This was the GRAND PLAN of the applicant from the get go, in order to qualify for SDI and FML for maternity purposes, never intending to return to work. This practice is perfectly legal (incl. non-disclosure at the time of hire of impending maternity needs).

Sure, tragedies such as cancer befall older cogs more. In this case, however, when the older cog leaves for treatment, they typically can qualify for SSD, never to return to work and thus do not tie up the position.

There are MANY older former cogs 50-65 years old (myself incl) that would LIKE to be a cog again (even pt. time) rather than self-employed or consulting but get beat out of even pt-time cog positions every time by know-nothing young cogs who think they are actually chiefs.

The boomer “shadow-cogs” are NOT COUNTED in the unemployment figures because they gave up long ago and thus are ineligible for UI. The general public and mainstream media does not really care about this issue because older “shadow cogs” typically have the tenacity, resources, wherewithal and prudence to eek out a living no matter what the economic conditions.

If you add this “shadow-cog” element into the mix, unemployment figures for this area might be 17% or more. There are MILLIONS of boomer “former shadow cogs.” We are mindful, healthy, have proper clothing, running cars, a place to live, don’t have problems keeping a schedule and can pass the “credit-check” test for employment. Regardless of everything I said here, employers, for the most part, are “enamored” of young “chief-applicants” they think they can turn into cogs at the expense of all other applicants. This will never change :={

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.[/quote]

EXACTLY…I guess one thing the thing the Bubble did was inflate people’s “titles”… I don’t recall a period of time in which I’ve seen so many people with the “manager” title, or the “director” title looking for management/managerial positions….How can someone be a Director of a team of two people OR LESS is beyond me…. ..Competant managers can manage 15-20+… New Directors: 50-100+. Old timer Directors 100-200+….Even the ones who are fresh out of school seem to want to be “managers” from day 1. The reality is, very few people either want or capable of doing the grunt work, let alone manage it…And that’s where right now the gap is..Just more too often, applicants that are asked what is your skillset answer “I manage people”. Well, that’s great. But we don’t have a shortage of folks that want to do that 🙂 (able is another story).

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.[/quote]

EXACTLY…I guess one thing the thing the Bubble did was inflate people’s “titles”… I don’t recall a period of time in which I’ve seen so many people with the “manager” title, or the “director” title looking for management/managerial positions….How can someone be a Director of a team of two people OR LESS is beyond me…. ..Competant managers can manage 15-20+… New Directors: 50-100+. Old timer Directors 100-200+….Even the ones who are fresh out of school seem to want to be “managers” from day 1. The reality is, very few people either want or capable of doing the grunt work, let alone manage it…And that’s where right now the gap is..Just more too often, applicants that are asked what is your skillset answer “I manage people”. Well, that’s great. But we don’t have a shortage of folks that want to do that 🙂 (able is another story).

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.[/quote]

EXACTLY…I guess one thing the thing the Bubble did was inflate people’s “titles”… I don’t recall a period of time in which I’ve seen so many people with the “manager” title, or the “director” title looking for management/managerial positions….How can someone be a Director of a team of two people OR LESS is beyond me…. ..Competant managers can manage 15-20+… New Directors: 50-100+. Old timer Directors 100-200+….Even the ones who are fresh out of school seem to want to be “managers” from day 1. The reality is, very few people either want or capable of doing the grunt work, let alone manage it…And that’s where right now the gap is..Just more too often, applicants that are asked what is your skillset answer “I manage people”. Well, that’s great. But we don’t have a shortage of folks that want to do that 🙂 (able is another story).

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.[/quote]

EXACTLY…I guess one thing the thing the Bubble did was inflate people’s “titles”… I don’t recall a period of time in which I’ve seen so many people with the “manager” title, or the “director” title looking for management/managerial positions….How can someone be a Director of a team of two people OR LESS is beyond me…. ..Competant managers can manage 15-20+… New Directors: 50-100+. Old timer Directors 100-200+….Even the ones who are fresh out of school seem to want to be “managers” from day 1. The reality is, very few people either want or capable of doing the grunt work, let alone manage it…And that’s where right now the gap is..Just more too often, applicants that are asked what is your skillset answer “I manage people”. Well, that’s great. But we don’t have a shortage of folks that want to do that 🙂 (able is another story).

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=walterwhite]doesnt the world also need cogs?[/quote]

By definition, the world needs mostly cogs. It’s that simple. Most folks aren’t cut out to be anything different than a cog. (Note I didn’t say “more than” a cog because there’s nothing inherently wrong with being a cog.) One of the unfortunate by-products of the Bubble is that lots of folks fancied themselves “entrepreneurs,” only to discover that their “success” (fleeting though it may have been) was only due to Bubble Conditions and not to their own brilliance. It’s much easier to remain a cog (having already been one) than it is to return to (or join) Cogville. And lots of folks are learning that the hard way in this post-Bubble world.

One of the reasons that unemployment is so high is that we have too many folks who view themselves as Chiefs (as a result of Bubble successes) and not enough who will accept that they’re (now) Indians. And Indians are critical.[/quote]

EXACTLY…I guess one thing the thing the Bubble did was inflate people’s “titles”… I don’t recall a period of time in which I’ve seen so many people with the “manager” title, or the “director” title looking for management/managerial positions….How can someone be a Director of a team of two people OR LESS is beyond me…. ..Competant managers can manage 15-20+… New Directors: 50-100+. Old timer Directors 100-200+….Even the ones who are fresh out of school seem to want to be “managers” from day 1. The reality is, very few people either want or capable of doing the grunt work, let alone manage it…And that’s where right now the gap is..Just more too often, applicants that are asked what is your skillset answer “I manage people”. Well, that’s great. But we don’t have a shortage of folks that want to do that 🙂 (able is another story).

[beanmaestro]

I think the key element missing in education right now is awareness that the student needs to take responsibility for, and plan ahead to make themselves marketable. Too many people pick a field that looks fun, then fail to figure out how to get a job in their field until it’s too late to adjust course.

The English major needs to figure out how she’s going to use a BA to make money before her junior year, so she can tailor classes and internships to be well positioned for tech writing, editing, for-profit blogging, or whatever. The vo-tech student needs to figure out whether he can really get a job he’d be willing to do, for a wage he can live on, before starting the training. The engineer needs to get an internship or a good lab job to have more than a degree on his resume.

It happens that lib arts majors have to be more creative, and take more individual initiative to start up a career. It can work just fine, and they end up happier doing a job they’ll enjoy. The problem comes when the lib arts major ends up with a sociology degree because the classes were easier and more fun.

The other problem is that we’re asking 19 year olds to make those decisions without actually preparing them for the choice. If you don’t want your kids to come home unemployed after college, maybe you should start them thinking critically about careers before they finish high school. If they’re not ready at that time, maybe a couple years of CC or work will help them sort it out without $50k of student debt.

[beanmaestro]

I think the key element missing in education right now is awareness that the student needs to take responsibility for, and plan ahead to make themselves marketable. Too many people pick a field that looks fun, then fail to figure out how to get a job in their field until it’s too late to adjust course.

The English major needs to figure out how she’s going to use a BA to make money before her junior year, so she can tailor classes and internships to be well positioned for tech writing, editing, for-profit blogging, or whatever. The vo-tech student needs to figure out whether he can really get a job he’d be willing to do, for a wage he can live on, before starting the training. The engineer needs to get an internship or a good lab job to have more than a degree on his resume.

It happens that lib arts majors have to be more creative, and take more individual initiative to start up a career. It can work just fine, and they end up happier doing a job they’ll enjoy. The problem comes when the lib arts major ends up with a sociology degree because the classes were easier and more fun.

The other problem is that we’re asking 19 year olds to make those decisions without actually preparing them for the choice. If you don’t want your kids to come home unemployed after college, maybe you should start them thinking critically about careers before they finish high school. If they’re not ready at that time, maybe a couple years of CC or work will help them sort it out without $50k of student debt.

[beanmaestro]

I think the key element missing in education right now is awareness that the student needs to take responsibility for, and plan ahead to make themselves marketable. Too many people pick a field that looks fun, then fail to figure out how to get a job in their field until it’s too late to adjust course.

The English major needs to figure out how she’s going to use a BA to make money before her junior year, so she can tailor classes and internships to be well positioned for tech writing, editing, for-profit blogging, or whatever. The vo-tech student needs to figure out whether he can really get a job he’d be willing to do, for a wage he can live on, before starting the training. The engineer needs to get an internship or a good lab job to have more than a degree on his resume.

It happens that lib arts majors have to be more creative, and take more individual initiative to start up a career. It can work just fine, and they end up happier doing a job they’ll enjoy. The problem comes when the lib arts major ends up with a sociology degree because the classes were easier and more fun.

The other problem is that we’re asking 19 year olds to make those decisions without actually preparing them for the choice. If you don’t want your kids to come home unemployed after college, maybe you should start them thinking critically about careers before they finish high school. If they’re not ready at that time, maybe a couple years of CC or work will help them sort it out without $50k of student debt.

[beanmaestro]

I think the key element missing in education right now is awareness that the student needs to take responsibility for, and plan ahead to make themselves marketable. Too many people pick a field that looks fun, then fail to figure out how to get a job in their field until it’s too late to adjust course.

The English major needs to figure out how she’s going to use a BA to make money before her junior year, so she can tailor classes and internships to be well positioned for tech writing, editing, for-profit blogging, or whatever. The vo-tech student needs to figure out whether he can really get a job he’d be willing to do, for a wage he can live on, before starting the training. The engineer needs to get an internship or a good lab job to have more than a degree on his resume.

It happens that lib arts majors have to be more creative, and take more individual initiative to start up a career. It can work just fine, and they end up happier doing a job they’ll enjoy. The problem comes when the lib arts major ends up with a sociology degree because the classes were easier and more fun.

The other problem is that we’re asking 19 year olds to make those decisions without actually preparing them for the choice. If you don’t want your kids to come home unemployed after college, maybe you should start them thinking critically about careers before they finish high school. If they’re not ready at that time, maybe a couple years of CC or work will help them sort it out without $50k of student debt.

[Author]

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