OT: New grad/profession/school pay….

[Sandi Egan]

I don’t believe the majority of kids in San Diego even consider higher education. Yet hands-on work does not entice them, either.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by matthew crawford.

good book on the issue.

i know the title sounds cheesy but the book is smart and interesting. kind of a “zena nd the art of motorcycle maintenance meets this topic.[/quote]

Scaredy, you might be SHOCKED at how much Yamaha charges to do a minor motorcycle repair!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by matthew crawford.

good book on the issue.

i know the title sounds cheesy but the book is smart and interesting. kind of a “zena nd the art of motorcycle maintenance meets this topic.[/quote]

Scaredy, you might be SHOCKED at how much Yamaha charges to do a minor motorcycle repair!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by matthew crawford.

good book on the issue.

i know the title sounds cheesy but the book is smart and interesting. kind of a “zena nd the art of motorcycle maintenance meets this topic.[/quote]

Scaredy, you might be SHOCKED at how much Yamaha charges to do a minor motorcycle repair!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by matthew crawford.

good book on the issue.

i know the title sounds cheesy but the book is smart and interesting. kind of a “zena nd the art of motorcycle maintenance meets this topic.[/quote]

Scaredy, you might be SHOCKED at how much Yamaha charges to do a minor motorcycle repair!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=walterwhite]SHOP CLASS AS SOULCRAFT by matthew crawford.

good book on the issue.

i know the title sounds cheesy but the book is smart and interesting. kind of a “zena nd the art of motorcycle maintenance meets this topic.[/quote]

Scaredy, you might be SHOCKED at how much Yamaha charges to do a minor motorcycle repair!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=meadandale] . . . I started working when I was 14 and had various jobs all through high school and college. Even then, I still had to work my way up through crap jobs after college.

I managed to live on my own and pay back my college loans just fine on a low salary. I didn’t get to own a nice car, have nice clothes or go out a lot. I didn’t have the money. I had to live frugally for a long time.

I think a lot of these kids are living at home because they don’t want to give up the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to so they let their parents pay for it. They are gonna have a hell of a time when they actually get out in the real world and have to pay their own way.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying here, meadandale. I, too, began work at 15, had tons of “crap jobs” and moved out just before my 18th birthday, never to return home.

These kids I’m speaking of aren’t driving new cars and their student loan balances range from $27K to about $68K. Their parents, by any stretch, aren’t living “lifestyles” (anyone) would aspire to become “accustomed to.” Several still have minor brothers/sisters at home and some of their homes are small and crowded. I’m sure that if these kids weren’t so in debt (because their parents were unable to help with college) that they would prefer to live with a roommate out in an apt somewhere.

If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?

I had no student loan debt and private student loans did not exist in my day (a typical “gov’t-backed” student loan back then was, at most, $4K per yr). My first apt. rent was $140 per mo. for 1 bdrm. apt and water/sewer and gas/elec were typically incl. with apt rent. Cable tv and cell phones did not exist. A landline phone was $8 per mo. Jobs were plentiful and if you didn’t like the job or people, there was another one down the street. A single person could live on minimum wage (or slightly over) indefinitely and also drive, shop and entertain themselves.

It’s a vastly different world that these kids are graduating into today.

**************************************************

I am intimately familiar with the duties of the county jobs I speak of here and can tell you that many of them do not require any skills beyond what is typically learned in the eighth grade. Hence, the entry tests for these jobs (to get on the hiring lists) are based upon successful completion of eighth-grade subjects.

I wouldn’t counsel my kid with a marketable college degree to take ANY of these jobs as there is NO GUARANTEE of ever being promoted out of them.

If they’re just a means to an end (pay off student loans) then I guess I could see their point of taking them in this job market.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=meadandale] . . . I started working when I was 14 and had various jobs all through high school and college. Even then, I still had to work my way up through crap jobs after college.

I managed to live on my own and pay back my college loans just fine on a low salary. I didn’t get to own a nice car, have nice clothes or go out a lot. I didn’t have the money. I had to live frugally for a long time.

I think a lot of these kids are living at home because they don’t want to give up the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to so they let their parents pay for it. They are gonna have a hell of a time when they actually get out in the real world and have to pay their own way.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying here, meadandale. I, too, began work at 15, had tons of “crap jobs” and moved out just before my 18th birthday, never to return home.

These kids I’m speaking of aren’t driving new cars and their student loan balances range from $27K to about $68K. Their parents, by any stretch, aren’t living “lifestyles” (anyone) would aspire to become “accustomed to.” Several still have minor brothers/sisters at home and some of their homes are small and crowded. I’m sure that if these kids weren’t so in debt (because their parents were unable to help with college) that they would prefer to live with a roommate out in an apt somewhere.

If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?

I had no student loan debt and private student loans did not exist in my day (a typical “gov’t-backed” student loan back then was, at most, $4K per yr). My first apt. rent was $140 per mo. for 1 bdrm. apt and water/sewer and gas/elec were typically incl. with apt rent. Cable tv and cell phones did not exist. A landline phone was $8 per mo. Jobs were plentiful and if you didn’t like the job or people, there was another one down the street. A single person could live on minimum wage (or slightly over) indefinitely and also drive, shop and entertain themselves.

It’s a vastly different world that these kids are graduating into today.

**************************************************

I am intimately familiar with the duties of the county jobs I speak of here and can tell you that many of them do not require any skills beyond what is typically learned in the eighth grade. Hence, the entry tests for these jobs (to get on the hiring lists) are based upon successful completion of eighth-grade subjects.

I wouldn’t counsel my kid with a marketable college degree to take ANY of these jobs as there is NO GUARANTEE of ever being promoted out of them.

If they’re just a means to an end (pay off student loans) then I guess I could see their point of taking them in this job market.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=meadandale] . . . I started working when I was 14 and had various jobs all through high school and college. Even then, I still had to work my way up through crap jobs after college.

I managed to live on my own and pay back my college loans just fine on a low salary. I didn’t get to own a nice car, have nice clothes or go out a lot. I didn’t have the money. I had to live frugally for a long time.

I think a lot of these kids are living at home because they don’t want to give up the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to so they let their parents pay for it. They are gonna have a hell of a time when they actually get out in the real world and have to pay their own way.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying here, meadandale. I, too, began work at 15, had tons of “crap jobs” and moved out just before my 18th birthday, never to return home.

These kids I’m speaking of aren’t driving new cars and their student loan balances range from $27K to about $68K. Their parents, by any stretch, aren’t living “lifestyles” (anyone) would aspire to become “accustomed to.” Several still have minor brothers/sisters at home and some of their homes are small and crowded. I’m sure that if these kids weren’t so in debt (because their parents were unable to help with college) that they would prefer to live with a roommate out in an apt somewhere.

If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?

I had no student loan debt and private student loans did not exist in my day (a typical “gov’t-backed” student loan back then was, at most, $4K per yr). My first apt. rent was $140 per mo. for 1 bdrm. apt and water/sewer and gas/elec were typically incl. with apt rent. Cable tv and cell phones did not exist. A landline phone was $8 per mo. Jobs were plentiful and if you didn’t like the job or people, there was another one down the street. A single person could live on minimum wage (or slightly over) indefinitely and also drive, shop and entertain themselves.

It’s a vastly different world that these kids are graduating into today.

**************************************************

I am intimately familiar with the duties of the county jobs I speak of here and can tell you that many of them do not require any skills beyond what is typically learned in the eighth grade. Hence, the entry tests for these jobs (to get on the hiring lists) are based upon successful completion of eighth-grade subjects.

I wouldn’t counsel my kid with a marketable college degree to take ANY of these jobs as there is NO GUARANTEE of ever being promoted out of them.

If they’re just a means to an end (pay off student loans) then I guess I could see their point of taking them in this job market.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=meadandale] . . . I started working when I was 14 and had various jobs all through high school and college. Even then, I still had to work my way up through crap jobs after college.

I managed to live on my own and pay back my college loans just fine on a low salary. I didn’t get to own a nice car, have nice clothes or go out a lot. I didn’t have the money. I had to live frugally for a long time.

I think a lot of these kids are living at home because they don’t want to give up the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to so they let their parents pay for it. They are gonna have a hell of a time when they actually get out in the real world and have to pay their own way.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying here, meadandale. I, too, began work at 15, had tons of “crap jobs” and moved out just before my 18th birthday, never to return home.

These kids I’m speaking of aren’t driving new cars and their student loan balances range from $27K to about $68K. Their parents, by any stretch, aren’t living “lifestyles” (anyone) would aspire to become “accustomed to.” Several still have minor brothers/sisters at home and some of their homes are small and crowded. I’m sure that if these kids weren’t so in debt (because their parents were unable to help with college) that they would prefer to live with a roommate out in an apt somewhere.

If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?

I had no student loan debt and private student loans did not exist in my day (a typical “gov’t-backed” student loan back then was, at most, $4K per yr). My first apt. rent was $140 per mo. for 1 bdrm. apt and water/sewer and gas/elec were typically incl. with apt rent. Cable tv and cell phones did not exist. A landline phone was $8 per mo. Jobs were plentiful and if you didn’t like the job or people, there was another one down the street. A single person could live on minimum wage (or slightly over) indefinitely and also drive, shop and entertain themselves.

It’s a vastly different world that these kids are graduating into today.

**************************************************

I am intimately familiar with the duties of the county jobs I speak of here and can tell you that many of them do not require any skills beyond what is typically learned in the eighth grade. Hence, the entry tests for these jobs (to get on the hiring lists) are based upon successful completion of eighth-grade subjects.

I wouldn’t counsel my kid with a marketable college degree to take ANY of these jobs as there is NO GUARANTEE of ever being promoted out of them.

If they’re just a means to an end (pay off student loans) then I guess I could see their point of taking them in this job market.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=meadandale] . . . I started working when I was 14 and had various jobs all through high school and college. Even then, I still had to work my way up through crap jobs after college.

I managed to live on my own and pay back my college loans just fine on a low salary. I didn’t get to own a nice car, have nice clothes or go out a lot. I didn’t have the money. I had to live frugally for a long time.

I think a lot of these kids are living at home because they don’t want to give up the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to so they let their parents pay for it. They are gonna have a hell of a time when they actually get out in the real world and have to pay their own way.[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying here, meadandale. I, too, began work at 15, had tons of “crap jobs” and moved out just before my 18th birthday, never to return home.

These kids I’m speaking of aren’t driving new cars and their student loan balances range from $27K to about $68K. Their parents, by any stretch, aren’t living “lifestyles” (anyone) would aspire to become “accustomed to.” Several still have minor brothers/sisters at home and some of their homes are small and crowded. I’m sure that if these kids weren’t so in debt (because their parents were unable to help with college) that they would prefer to live with a roommate out in an apt somewhere.

If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?

I had no student loan debt and private student loans did not exist in my day (a typical “gov’t-backed” student loan back then was, at most, $4K per yr). My first apt. rent was $140 per mo. for 1 bdrm. apt and water/sewer and gas/elec were typically incl. with apt rent. Cable tv and cell phones did not exist. A landline phone was $8 per mo. Jobs were plentiful and if you didn’t like the job or people, there was another one down the street. A single person could live on minimum wage (or slightly over) indefinitely and also drive, shop and entertain themselves.

It’s a vastly different world that these kids are graduating into today.

**************************************************

I am intimately familiar with the duties of the county jobs I speak of here and can tell you that many of them do not require any skills beyond what is typically learned in the eighth grade. Hence, the entry tests for these jobs (to get on the hiring lists) are based upon successful completion of eighth-grade subjects.

I wouldn’t counsel my kid with a marketable college degree to take ANY of these jobs as there is NO GUARANTEE of ever being promoted out of them.

If they’re just a means to an end (pay off student loans) then I guess I could see their point of taking them in this job market.

[meadandale]

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?
[/quote]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

However, it’s a large part cultural. My niece makes $45k/year working for a judge at the courthouse in SB county…yet she says she “can’t afford” an apartment and so still lives at home at 27 yo. Of course not when she spends 90% of her paycheck every month at the mall on clothes and other crap and eats 3 times a day at starbucks…and even manages to pile more on her credit card.

[meadandale]

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?
[/quote]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

However, it’s a large part cultural. My niece makes $45k/year working for a judge at the courthouse in SB county…yet she says she “can’t afford” an apartment and so still lives at home at 27 yo. Of course not when she spends 90% of her paycheck every month at the mall on clothes and other crap and eats 3 times a day at starbucks…and even manages to pile more on her credit card.

[meadandale]

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?
[/quote]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

However, it’s a large part cultural. My niece makes $45k/year working for a judge at the courthouse in SB county…yet she says she “can’t afford” an apartment and so still lives at home at 27 yo. Of course not when she spends 90% of her paycheck every month at the mall on clothes and other crap and eats 3 times a day at starbucks…and even manages to pile more on her credit card.

[meadandale]

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you don’t mind my asking, meadandale, how much was your student loan debt upon graduation? And how much was your rent (or your portion of rent) upon graduating?
[/quote]

I didn’t take out a lot of loans because I didn’t want to be saddled with debt. I worked near full time all through college to pay for living expenses and tuition…often two jobs. Interest rates for student loans were very high in the 80’s (even federally backed loans). You didn’t get one unless you absolutely had to.

I probably had about $10-15k of student loan debt when I graduated in 1990. I was making about $22k/yr with a B.A. in Chemistry and paying about $500/month in rent to rent a room in an apartment/house/condo (I lived in several places and the price was similar for all of them). I hardly ever went out to bars or restaurants, didn’t have a car and bicycled to work. I bought a lot of top ramen and frozen vegetables.

I think that the reason that so many college students have so much debt these days is partly because many of them don’t work and the rely solely on loans to pay for college and their living expenses. You know what they say about other peoples money: you aren’t really frugal when you are getting a student aid check and aren’t working your ass off to earn that money.

Granted, tuitions have risen MUCH faster than salaries..this is partly because of the student loan industry. If the loans weren’t available the schools wouldn’t be able to raise tuition because noone could afford to go there…and I’m talking about state schools like UCSD and SDSU not ivy league colleges.

However, it’s a large part cultural. My niece makes $45k/year working for a judge at the courthouse in SB county…yet she says she “can’t afford” an apartment and so still lives at home at 27 yo. Of course not when she spends 90% of her paycheck every month at the mall on clothes and other crap and eats 3 times a day at starbucks…and even manages to pile more on her credit card.

[Author]

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