Healthcare is not a right!?

[aldante]

[quote=PDQ][quote=NeetaT]In my opinion, healthcare is not a right. Healthcare is a service that is priced via supply and demand just like other goods and services. No one will ever agree with me, but I know that if there was no such thing as health insurance, prices for health services would adjust to average income, thus more people could afford it out of pocket. Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Let me guess: You have insurance supplied by your employer and/or you have no health issues, right?

Were you older with heart disease or some other “pre-existing condition” that rendered health insurance unaffordable you might feel differently.

Hopefully when you grow up and have a family you won’t have any children with health problems either. Having to fight for coverage for a child born with a health condition is no fun.

But I’m sure you’re young, buff and vital so that’s no issue for you. Be sure to marry well to someone else who’s young, strong and healthy. And if any of your children appear to be defective while in the womb, just abort them. The “master race” and all.

Oh…did I mention that you couldn’t have any pre-existing conditions like injuries from skiing, or athletic activities? If you work for a small business (and you sound like a big proponent of self-sufficiency and small business) you won’t be able to get coverage for “pre-existing” conditions. That would mean you’d actually have to pay for your own healthcare!!!!

But I’m sure you already know all of that seeing as how you’re an insurance expert[/quote]

Don’t you know that the only reason that the healthcare companies exist in this form is that their near monoploies were created and continue to be protected by Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The ignorance on this topic is why we should be taking our time not having this shoved down our throats.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[aldante]

Police, fire departments, defense, and a justice system are services that are provided by a government and justify whether or not a government should continue to exist. If a government is not good at protecting people that government, naturally will eventually be displaced. It goes to the basic reason of why we have all “agreed” to live in society. Healthcare simply extends the idea of what a government should do. It is not a right.
So much of the debate is being driven by people with an agenda – misdirecting ignorant people. For instance if I can engage you in a debate about the “right” of healthcare then I am deflecting the cost of what that means.
A government must take from its citizens to exist. When the government takes too much from too many that govenment will cease to exist. That is why I believe that true Americans do not want the government to take on the healthcare task. Government must be percieved as fair by most people it governs in order to exist. That is why I think those opposed see that healthcare can not be distributed fairly: rich people will get everything they need, but the middle class will get worse care that takes longer then it is now. The best analogy that I can muster is what happens when a school district is terrible. The rich just send their kids to private school while the middle class gets taxed higher and the education keeps going down.

So healthcare is not a right. It is what everyone wants. We all want a couple of million $$ but that is not our right. A right can not be defined as something that must be taken from someone else. My personal liberty and right to speak my mind does not take your liberty away unless I decide to take a bull horn to your bedroom. My right to defend myself does not interfear with your life. If my right is to have healthcare then that means you have to pay for me. That would be nice until I have to pay for you.

If you call yourself an American you should know that our Constitution describes our rights. Our Constitution was put in place to defend this contrys citizens from exactly what is happening right now with healthcare, banking fiasco and war mongering.

To all you “pragmatists” pay attention. Our elected officals have become a governing class. Their main focus is how to get re-elected. Condider their health package compared to what they passed for us average “Americans” The are using my (and yours)tax dollars to do get re-elected. The way they are using them is to give them to someone else. The degree to which they are starting to do that is beginning to get infringe on my freedom. I do not want them to do that. If you believe that half the people in Congress give think more about healthcare for others then themselves then we disagree. But simply electing a new person will not help becasue our system is broken to the point that there appears to be legitimate questions as to what rights are and are not. We are in a world of deep trouble. It took 300 years to build this up…my guess 30 years to tear it down. We will have a couple of big wars to try and protect what we think we deserve but we are just the latest bully on the block.

Oh and whoever that person is who said that our Constitution is null and void becasue times have changed and there is no such thing as inaliable rights – I hope you get fasely accused of a crime (or your property confiscated)and get thown in frigging prison – you idiot.

[meadandale]

[quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm

[meadandale]

[quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm

[meadandale]

[quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm

[meadandale]

[quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm

[meadandale]

[quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm

[SK in CV]

[quote=meadandale][quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm[/quote]

No, that’s not change. It is exactly how it has been since 1913, the date of enactment of the first US income tax. The more income you have, the higher your marginal tax rate. Those with higher income pay more for services provided by the federal government than those with lower incomes. And for the most part, since then, the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer.

[SK in CV]

[quote=meadandale][quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm[/quote]

No, that’s not change. It is exactly how it has been since 1913, the date of enactment of the first US income tax. The more income you have, the higher your marginal tax rate. Those with higher income pay more for services provided by the federal government than those with lower incomes. And for the most part, since then, the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer.

[SK in CV]

[quote=meadandale][quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm[/quote]

No, that’s not change. It is exactly how it has been since 1913, the date of enactment of the first US income tax. The more income you have, the higher your marginal tax rate. Those with higher income pay more for services provided by the federal government than those with lower incomes. And for the most part, since then, the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer.

[SK in CV]

[quote=meadandale][quote=briansd1]People who make more money need to pay for their own health care/insurance.[/quote]

So…I need to pay (more) taxes so OTHER people can have free basic healthcare…but I’m on my own and have to provide my own at my (additional) expense?

That’s certainly change we can believe in…./sarcasm[/quote]

No, that’s not change. It is exactly how it has been since 1913, the date of enactment of the first US income tax. The more income you have, the higher your marginal tax rate. Those with higher income pay more for services provided by the federal government than those with lower incomes. And for the most part, since then, the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten poorer.

[Author]

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