Healthcare is not a right!?

[urbanrealtor]

I don’t think health care is a right.
However, basic survival-oriented and educational public goods are a practical necessity in non-poor countries.
To that extent, it is a government responsibility.
I also think that increasing the efficiency of the distribution of public goods is a responsibility.
Right now we have universal health care.
Anybody showing up at an ER in the US gets treated regardless of income.
That is universal, often publicly subsidized, and very inefficient.
People in this country can’t really starve either.
The only people who starve here are people who have some true disability (like mental illness) or actually desire to starve (like supermodels).
We just make it uncomfortable to live on the dole (fill out these 6 forms then stand in a line for a an hour and then you get 2 loaves of bread and a brick of cheese).
Just as there is no real option for letting poor people starve, there is no real option for letting injured and sick people die for lack of cash.

Therefore, this is really about the following issues:
-how to minimize outlays from government and institutions currently providing that inefficient health care (thus improving the bottom line of hospitals, government entities, and other payers)
-about how to minimize personal bankruptcies (or just general financial burden) associated with insufficient coverage (thus improving global consumer effective demand)
-giving US companies a comparative advantage over their foreign competitors who enjoy more efficient and/or subsidized healthcare (part, though only part, of the reason our companies are currently seeing waning competitiveness)

Also, to Allan’s concern about authoritarianism in the form of required insurance:

1: How is representative democratic legislation “authoritarian”?
2: How is this different from being required to pay unemployment insurance (or having that as an employer-cost associated with you) or paying retirement insurance (social security)?

The purpose of any government is the welfare of its people and right now the inefficiencies in US healthcare have created a self-reinforcing economic burden upon the country. I think that, as a fix, this is an acceptable option.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan: The problem is, we’re a representative democracy in name only.

When you look at the amount of money that the Obama campaign received from Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, it becomes difficult to argue that he isn’t beholden to them and their interests.

Similarly, the bill that’s before us today is so rife with political self-dealing, compromise(s) and back room fixes, as to be unrecognizable from the original goal of “reform”. There is no reform here, just more of the same.

A very capable political theorist (and I don’t remember his name) opined that, once government becomes riven by partisanship, lobbyists and corrupted by money, it calcifies and is thus unable to fulfill its role as advocate and protector of the citizenry. I believe we’re there now.

As a sidebar, Dan, I do highly recommend that “Oldspeak” interview with Hentoff. I’ve been a huge fan of Nat’s for years, and I used to follow him closely in the Village Voice. He isn’t shrill or strident in his denunciations of Obama, but makes the case in measured tones. Definitely worth a read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan: The problem is, we’re a representative democracy in name only.

When you look at the amount of money that the Obama campaign received from Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, it becomes difficult to argue that he isn’t beholden to them and their interests.

Similarly, the bill that’s before us today is so rife with political self-dealing, compromise(s) and back room fixes, as to be unrecognizable from the original goal of “reform”. There is no reform here, just more of the same.

A very capable political theorist (and I don’t remember his name) opined that, once government becomes riven by partisanship, lobbyists and corrupted by money, it calcifies and is thus unable to fulfill its role as advocate and protector of the citizenry. I believe we’re there now.

As a sidebar, Dan, I do highly recommend that “Oldspeak” interview with Hentoff. I’ve been a huge fan of Nat’s for years, and I used to follow him closely in the Village Voice. He isn’t shrill or strident in his denunciations of Obama, but makes the case in measured tones. Definitely worth a read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan: The problem is, we’re a representative democracy in name only.

When you look at the amount of money that the Obama campaign received from Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, it becomes difficult to argue that he isn’t beholden to them and their interests.

Similarly, the bill that’s before us today is so rife with political self-dealing, compromise(s) and back room fixes, as to be unrecognizable from the original goal of “reform”. There is no reform here, just more of the same.

A very capable political theorist (and I don’t remember his name) opined that, once government becomes riven by partisanship, lobbyists and corrupted by money, it calcifies and is thus unable to fulfill its role as advocate and protector of the citizenry. I believe we’re there now.

As a sidebar, Dan, I do highly recommend that “Oldspeak” interview with Hentoff. I’ve been a huge fan of Nat’s for years, and I used to follow him closely in the Village Voice. He isn’t shrill or strident in his denunciations of Obama, but makes the case in measured tones. Definitely worth a read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan: The problem is, we’re a representative democracy in name only.

When you look at the amount of money that the Obama campaign received from Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, it becomes difficult to argue that he isn’t beholden to them and their interests.

Similarly, the bill that’s before us today is so rife with political self-dealing, compromise(s) and back room fixes, as to be unrecognizable from the original goal of “reform”. There is no reform here, just more of the same.

A very capable political theorist (and I don’t remember his name) opined that, once government becomes riven by partisanship, lobbyists and corrupted by money, it calcifies and is thus unable to fulfill its role as advocate and protector of the citizenry. I believe we’re there now.

As a sidebar, Dan, I do highly recommend that “Oldspeak” interview with Hentoff. I’ve been a huge fan of Nat’s for years, and I used to follow him closely in the Village Voice. He isn’t shrill or strident in his denunciations of Obama, but makes the case in measured tones. Definitely worth a read.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Dan: The problem is, we’re a representative democracy in name only.

When you look at the amount of money that the Obama campaign received from Wall Street, including Goldman Sachs, it becomes difficult to argue that he isn’t beholden to them and their interests.

Similarly, the bill that’s before us today is so rife with political self-dealing, compromise(s) and back room fixes, as to be unrecognizable from the original goal of “reform”. There is no reform here, just more of the same.

A very capable political theorist (and I don’t remember his name) opined that, once government becomes riven by partisanship, lobbyists and corrupted by money, it calcifies and is thus unable to fulfill its role as advocate and protector of the citizenry. I believe we’re there now.

As a sidebar, Dan, I do highly recommend that “Oldspeak” interview with Hentoff. I’ve been a huge fan of Nat’s for years, and I used to follow him closely in the Village Voice. He isn’t shrill or strident in his denunciations of Obama, but makes the case in measured tones. Definitely worth a read.

[blahblahblah]

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.

[blahblahblah]

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.

[blahblahblah]

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.

[blahblahblah]

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.

[blahblahblah]

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.[/quote]

CONCHO: You’re right and I agree. I also agree with the use of the word “scam” to describe the new health care bill. This thing is a hot mess and getting worse, as is the situation in Washington.

Now, I know I’ll be accused of partisanship here, but, across the board, things seem to be getting a lot worse and not better. The answer to everything seems to be to allow the Big Government theocrats full rein and just go along with the scam, as the printing presses keep running and Prez Barry assures us, as do Bernanke and the fools in Congress, that all is well and not to fear.

I don’t know about you, but I can’t recall feeling this uneasy about the state of this country.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.[/quote]

CONCHO: You’re right and I agree. I also agree with the use of the word “scam” to describe the new health care bill. This thing is a hot mess and getting worse, as is the situation in Washington.

Now, I know I’ll be accused of partisanship here, but, across the board, things seem to be getting a lot worse and not better. The answer to everything seems to be to allow the Big Government theocrats full rein and just go along with the scam, as the printing presses keep running and Prez Barry assures us, as do Bernanke and the fools in Congress, that all is well and not to fear.

I don’t know about you, but I can’t recall feeling this uneasy about the state of this country.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.[/quote]

CONCHO: You’re right and I agree. I also agree with the use of the word “scam” to describe the new health care bill. This thing is a hot mess and getting worse, as is the situation in Washington.

Now, I know I’ll be accused of partisanship here, but, across the board, things seem to be getting a lot worse and not better. The answer to everything seems to be to allow the Big Government theocrats full rein and just go along with the scam, as the printing presses keep running and Prez Barry assures us, as do Bernanke and the fools in Congress, that all is well and not to fear.

I don’t know about you, but I can’t recall feeling this uneasy about the state of this country.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction.

What about SSDI? That stands for Social Security and Disability INSURANCE. Try not paying it sometime and see what happens to you. It’s not a tax, it is a federal insurance program that we all must comply with by law. You can’t opt out.

The only difference between SSDI and this new healthcare scam is that the money will go straight to corporations rather than into a public trust.[/quote]

CONCHO: You’re right and I agree. I also agree with the use of the word “scam” to describe the new health care bill. This thing is a hot mess and getting worse, as is the situation in Washington.

Now, I know I’ll be accused of partisanship here, but, across the board, things seem to be getting a lot worse and not better. The answer to everything seems to be to allow the Big Government theocrats full rein and just go along with the scam, as the printing presses keep running and Prez Barry assures us, as do Bernanke and the fools in Congress, that all is well and not to fear.

I don’t know about you, but I can’t recall feeling this uneasy about the state of this country.

[Author]

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