Healthcare is not a right!?

[blahblahblah]

Do you really think this will benefit the insurance companies? The last I heard, was that the insurance industry is fighting the bill.

They are fighting anything that will prevent them from doing business as usual or anything that will lower their payout from uncle sam. They definitely want a healthcare bill, since it will force more people to purchase their useless insurance. They just don’t want anything in the bill that will make them have to pay claims or actually provide a useful service.

[all]

[quote=AN][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]
936,923 people die every year from Major Cardiovasular Diseases.
553,091 people die every year from Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer).
69,301 people die every year from Diabetes Mellitus.
65,313 people die every year from the flu/Pneumonia.
43,354 people die every year from Motor Vehicle Accidents.

These are statistics gathered from 2002. Those numbers are probably higher today. Putting the 45k number into perspective. Wouldn’t it save more lives by forcing people to eat better and exercise to stamp out obesity? 58 million are overweight, 40 million are obese, 3 million are morbidly obese. 8 out of 10 over 25’s are overweight.

Obesity Related Diseases

* 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
* 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
* 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
* 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
* 26% of obese people having high blood pressure

This also ties into mike92104’s idea. 8 out of 10 people over 25 wouldn’t qualify because they are overweight.[/quote]

We all have to die. The best you can do is to move (dead) people from one category to another.

[all]

[quote=AN][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]
936,923 people die every year from Major Cardiovasular Diseases.
553,091 people die every year from Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer).
69,301 people die every year from Diabetes Mellitus.
65,313 people die every year from the flu/Pneumonia.
43,354 people die every year from Motor Vehicle Accidents.

These are statistics gathered from 2002. Those numbers are probably higher today. Putting the 45k number into perspective. Wouldn’t it save more lives by forcing people to eat better and exercise to stamp out obesity? 58 million are overweight, 40 million are obese, 3 million are morbidly obese. 8 out of 10 over 25’s are overweight.

Obesity Related Diseases

* 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
* 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
* 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
* 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
* 26% of obese people having high blood pressure

This also ties into mike92104’s idea. 8 out of 10 people over 25 wouldn’t qualify because they are overweight.[/quote]

We all have to die. The best you can do is to move (dead) people from one category to another.

[all]

[quote=AN][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]
936,923 people die every year from Major Cardiovasular Diseases.
553,091 people die every year from Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer).
69,301 people die every year from Diabetes Mellitus.
65,313 people die every year from the flu/Pneumonia.
43,354 people die every year from Motor Vehicle Accidents.

These are statistics gathered from 2002. Those numbers are probably higher today. Putting the 45k number into perspective. Wouldn’t it save more lives by forcing people to eat better and exercise to stamp out obesity? 58 million are overweight, 40 million are obese, 3 million are morbidly obese. 8 out of 10 over 25’s are overweight.

Obesity Related Diseases

* 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
* 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
* 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
* 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
* 26% of obese people having high blood pressure

This also ties into mike92104’s idea. 8 out of 10 people over 25 wouldn’t qualify because they are overweight.[/quote]

We all have to die. The best you can do is to move (dead) people from one category to another.

[all]

[quote=AN][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]
936,923 people die every year from Major Cardiovasular Diseases.
553,091 people die every year from Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer).
69,301 people die every year from Diabetes Mellitus.
65,313 people die every year from the flu/Pneumonia.
43,354 people die every year from Motor Vehicle Accidents.

These are statistics gathered from 2002. Those numbers are probably higher today. Putting the 45k number into perspective. Wouldn’t it save more lives by forcing people to eat better and exercise to stamp out obesity? 58 million are overweight, 40 million are obese, 3 million are morbidly obese. 8 out of 10 over 25’s are overweight.

Obesity Related Diseases

* 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
* 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
* 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
* 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
* 26% of obese people having high blood pressure

This also ties into mike92104’s idea. 8 out of 10 people over 25 wouldn’t qualify because they are overweight.[/quote]

We all have to die. The best you can do is to move (dead) people from one category to another.

[all]

[quote=AN][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]
936,923 people die every year from Major Cardiovasular Diseases.
553,091 people die every year from Malignant Neoplasms (Cancer).
69,301 people die every year from Diabetes Mellitus.
65,313 people die every year from the flu/Pneumonia.
43,354 people die every year from Motor Vehicle Accidents.

These are statistics gathered from 2002. Those numbers are probably higher today. Putting the 45k number into perspective. Wouldn’t it save more lives by forcing people to eat better and exercise to stamp out obesity? 58 million are overweight, 40 million are obese, 3 million are morbidly obese. 8 out of 10 over 25’s are overweight.

Obesity Related Diseases

* 80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
* 70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
* 42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
* 30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
* 26% of obese people having high blood pressure

This also ties into mike92104’s idea. 8 out of 10 people over 25 wouldn’t qualify because they are overweight.[/quote]

We all have to die. The best you can do is to move (dead) people from one category to another.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.

Let’s see:

1) Purchase auto insurance or face fines.

2) Pay state/federal income taxes or face fines and or jail.

3) Pay property taxes or face fines.

4) When the draft is active, join military service or face fines and or jail.

I can go on and on but I won’t.

Not saying this healthcare bill is good. It isn’t, it’s just a giveaway to the insurance companies and isn’t going to help anyone get better care.

We are all doomed.

Return to your discussion.[/quote]

CONCHO: Well, given that the draft isn’t active and hasn’t been for a long while, it isn’t applicable.

Property taxes and auto insurance also don’t fit the bill, since those are local and state issues, not federal, and federal income tax isn’t the same, either.

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction. This is nothing like having to pay federal income taxes (which isn’t a product at all). While I’m sure you do indeed have plenty of examples, I’d be willing to bet none are like this one, because this is a first.

And, no, this health care bill isn’t good. As with all things Obama, we’re finding out more and more that he is woefully unprepared for the tasks he has undertaken.

If you want an interesting read, Google the “Oldspeak” interview with Nat Hentoff. Very enlightening. And, for all the Leftists who will cry foul that Hentoff is some sort of Rightist stooge: Not even close. Hentoff is a hugely respected scholar of the Constitution, and an expert on civil liberties. He finds Obama even more frightening than Dubya, which should send us all fleeing for Canada (where at least we’d get better health care, right?)

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.

Let’s see:

1) Purchase auto insurance or face fines.

2) Pay state/federal income taxes or face fines and or jail.

3) Pay property taxes or face fines.

4) When the draft is active, join military service or face fines and or jail.

I can go on and on but I won’t.

Not saying this healthcare bill is good. It isn’t, it’s just a giveaway to the insurance companies and isn’t going to help anyone get better care.

We are all doomed.

Return to your discussion.[/quote]

CONCHO: Well, given that the draft isn’t active and hasn’t been for a long while, it isn’t applicable.

Property taxes and auto insurance also don’t fit the bill, since those are local and state issues, not federal, and federal income tax isn’t the same, either.

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction. This is nothing like having to pay federal income taxes (which isn’t a product at all). While I’m sure you do indeed have plenty of examples, I’d be willing to bet none are like this one, because this is a first.

And, no, this health care bill isn’t good. As with all things Obama, we’re finding out more and more that he is woefully unprepared for the tasks he has undertaken.

If you want an interesting read, Google the “Oldspeak” interview with Nat Hentoff. Very enlightening. And, for all the Leftists who will cry foul that Hentoff is some sort of Rightist stooge: Not even close. Hentoff is a hugely respected scholar of the Constitution, and an expert on civil liberties. He finds Obama even more frightening than Dubya, which should send us all fleeing for Canada (where at least we’d get better health care, right?)

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.

Let’s see:

1) Purchase auto insurance or face fines.

2) Pay state/federal income taxes or face fines and or jail.

3) Pay property taxes or face fines.

4) When the draft is active, join military service or face fines and or jail.

I can go on and on but I won’t.

Not saying this healthcare bill is good. It isn’t, it’s just a giveaway to the insurance companies and isn’t going to help anyone get better care.

We are all doomed.

Return to your discussion.[/quote]

CONCHO: Well, given that the draft isn’t active and hasn’t been for a long while, it isn’t applicable.

Property taxes and auto insurance also don’t fit the bill, since those are local and state issues, not federal, and federal income tax isn’t the same, either.

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction. This is nothing like having to pay federal income taxes (which isn’t a product at all). While I’m sure you do indeed have plenty of examples, I’d be willing to bet none are like this one, because this is a first.

And, no, this health care bill isn’t good. As with all things Obama, we’re finding out more and more that he is woefully unprepared for the tasks he has undertaken.

If you want an interesting read, Google the “Oldspeak” interview with Nat Hentoff. Very enlightening. And, for all the Leftists who will cry foul that Hentoff is some sort of Rightist stooge: Not even close. Hentoff is a hugely respected scholar of the Constitution, and an expert on civil liberties. He finds Obama even more frightening than Dubya, which should send us all fleeing for Canada (where at least we’d get better health care, right?)

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.

Let’s see:

1) Purchase auto insurance or face fines.

2) Pay state/federal income taxes or face fines and or jail.

3) Pay property taxes or face fines.

4) When the draft is active, join military service or face fines and or jail.

I can go on and on but I won’t.

Not saying this healthcare bill is good. It isn’t, it’s just a giveaway to the insurance companies and isn’t going to help anyone get better care.

We are all doomed.

Return to your discussion.[/quote]

CONCHO: Well, given that the draft isn’t active and hasn’t been for a long while, it isn’t applicable.

Property taxes and auto insurance also don’t fit the bill, since those are local and state issues, not federal, and federal income tax isn’t the same, either.

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction. This is nothing like having to pay federal income taxes (which isn’t a product at all). While I’m sure you do indeed have plenty of examples, I’d be willing to bet none are like this one, because this is a first.

And, no, this health care bill isn’t good. As with all things Obama, we’re finding out more and more that he is woefully unprepared for the tasks he has undertaken.

If you want an interesting read, Google the “Oldspeak” interview with Nat Hentoff. Very enlightening. And, for all the Leftists who will cry foul that Hentoff is some sort of Rightist stooge: Not even close. Hentoff is a hugely respected scholar of the Constitution, and an expert on civil liberties. He finds Obama even more frightening than Dubya, which should send us all fleeing for Canada (where at least we’d get better health care, right?)

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CONCHO]Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.

Let’s see:

1) Purchase auto insurance or face fines.

2) Pay state/federal income taxes or face fines and or jail.

3) Pay property taxes or face fines.

4) When the draft is active, join military service or face fines and or jail.

I can go on and on but I won’t.

Not saying this healthcare bill is good. It isn’t, it’s just a giveaway to the insurance companies and isn’t going to help anyone get better care.

We are all doomed.

Return to your discussion.[/quote]

CONCHO: Well, given that the draft isn’t active and hasn’t been for a long while, it isn’t applicable.

Property taxes and auto insurance also don’t fit the bill, since those are local and state issues, not federal, and federal income tax isn’t the same, either.

My argument had to do solely with being forced to purchase a federally mandated product or face the risk of sanction. This is nothing like having to pay federal income taxes (which isn’t a product at all). While I’m sure you do indeed have plenty of examples, I’d be willing to bet none are like this one, because this is a first.

And, no, this health care bill isn’t good. As with all things Obama, we’re finding out more and more that he is woefully unprepared for the tasks he has undertaken.

If you want an interesting read, Google the “Oldspeak” interview with Nat Hentoff. Very enlightening. And, for all the Leftists who will cry foul that Hentoff is some sort of Rightist stooge: Not even close. Hentoff is a hugely respected scholar of the Constitution, and an expert on civil liberties. He finds Obama even more frightening than Dubya, which should send us all fleeing for Canada (where at least we’d get better health care, right?)

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]

SK: And another 100,000 die per year due to medical accidents, improper treatments, etc. So, what’s your point?

Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.[/quote]

My point was exactly what i said. There is no evidence people without insurance are spending that money on new cars and lavish vacations. People without insurance are dying and seeking bankruptcy protection at astounding levels.

Your point about the mandate is valid. And there is quite a bit of outrage about it from both the right and the left, everywhere except for the mainstream media. The current senate bill is a windfall for the insurance industry, further evidence of the financial industry’s grip on our government. A mandate without a public option, plus aid to pay for premiums is beyond their wildest wet dream.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]

SK: And another 100,000 die per year due to medical accidents, improper treatments, etc. So, what’s your point?

Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.[/quote]

My point was exactly what i said. There is no evidence people without insurance are spending that money on new cars and lavish vacations. People without insurance are dying and seeking bankruptcy protection at astounding levels.

Your point about the mandate is valid. And there is quite a bit of outrage about it from both the right and the left, everywhere except for the mainstream media. The current senate bill is a windfall for the insurance industry, further evidence of the financial industry’s grip on our government. A mandate without a public option, plus aid to pay for premiums is beyond their wildest wet dream.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]

SK: And another 100,000 die per year due to medical accidents, improper treatments, etc. So, what’s your point?

Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.[/quote]

My point was exactly what i said. There is no evidence people without insurance are spending that money on new cars and lavish vacations. People without insurance are dying and seeking bankruptcy protection at astounding levels.

Your point about the mandate is valid. And there is quite a bit of outrage about it from both the right and the left, everywhere except for the mainstream media. The current senate bill is a windfall for the insurance industry, further evidence of the financial industry’s grip on our government. A mandate without a public option, plus aid to pay for premiums is beyond their wildest wet dream.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=SK in CV][quote=NeetaT] Those who claim they can’t afford healthcare costs are the same people who can somehow find a way to buy a new car or go on a lavish vacation. All I can say is please “Kill the Bill” so that I am not fleeced for more taxes. I will gladly pay for my own healthcare thank you.[/quote]

Dude, what world are you living in? 45,000 people die every year in this country because they don’t have medical insurance. 10’s of thousand go bankrupt. Nobody is trading a cruise for their life.[/quote]

SK: And another 100,000 die per year due to medical accidents, improper treatments, etc. So, what’s your point?

Something else to consider: When in the history of this country has the government ever compelled its citizenry to comply with an order (buy health insurance) or face fines/sanctions? This is as authoritarian/autocratic as it comes and very few people seem all that outraged by this.[/quote]

My point was exactly what i said. There is no evidence people without insurance are spending that money on new cars and lavish vacations. People without insurance are dying and seeking bankruptcy protection at astounding levels.

Your point about the mandate is valid. And there is quite a bit of outrage about it from both the right and the left, everywhere except for the mainstream media. The current senate bill is a windfall for the insurance industry, further evidence of the financial industry’s grip on our government. A mandate without a public option, plus aid to pay for premiums is beyond their wildest wet dream.

[Author]

Posts