GM seeks up to $30B in aid, to cut 47,000 jobs

[zzz]

bottom line, if a company cannot build a sustainable business, it should fail. it doesn’t matter how they screwed it up. it doesn’t matter if it builds good product. if you cannot find a way to run in the black, it is not a sustainable business model.

we are on a very slippery slope, who gets to play god and pick winners and losers? what industry is next? everyone seems to be getting in line these days and can you blame them? lets bail out luxury retailers next.

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]

Guess what? That Aztek is an absolutely awesome vehicle. Now I know in third grade something that is funny looking is to be ridiculed but you know not of what you speak concerning that vehicle. How do i know? The Aztek is the sister SUV to my Buick. Crawl around and under one next time you see one. Beauty is skin deep and I think even the most Japanese of Japan fans will appreciate the mechanicle wonder of the vehicle.

[/quote]

HAHAHA Aztek? Are you FVCKING kidding me?

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=10

And second thing. Your Aztek/Buick Redezvous WASNT EVENT BUILT IN THE USA….IT WAS BUILT IN MEXICO…. The Rendezvous was produced at General Motors’ Ramos Arizpe, Mexico assembly plant, where it shared an assembly line with the Pontiac Aztek. So much for your argument about protectionism. unless, you consider “America” as “North America”. Yay…. go NAFTA….NOT!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/north_america/mexi_ramos.jsp

And thank you for bringing up the next point.
GM/Ford/Chrysler are notorious for over-brand-engineering. Why have 3-4 different cars with very little distinction except whether it’s a Pontiac/Buick/Chevy? That’s where I would be cutting first. (Yes other car manufacturers do this, but other manufacturers can AFFORD to do this and when they do, it usually makes sense). One should do a study on the cost of doing that simple brand engineering, from supply chain, to service/support.

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]

Guess what? That Aztek is an absolutely awesome vehicle. Now I know in third grade something that is funny looking is to be ridiculed but you know not of what you speak concerning that vehicle. How do i know? The Aztek is the sister SUV to my Buick. Crawl around and under one next time you see one. Beauty is skin deep and I think even the most Japanese of Japan fans will appreciate the mechanicle wonder of the vehicle.

[/quote]

HAHAHA Aztek? Are you FVCKING kidding me?

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=10

And second thing. Your Aztek/Buick Redezvous WASNT EVENT BUILT IN THE USA….IT WAS BUILT IN MEXICO…. The Rendezvous was produced at General Motors’ Ramos Arizpe, Mexico assembly plant, where it shared an assembly line with the Pontiac Aztek. So much for your argument about protectionism. unless, you consider “America” as “North America”. Yay…. go NAFTA….NOT!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/north_america/mexi_ramos.jsp

And thank you for bringing up the next point.
GM/Ford/Chrysler are notorious for over-brand-engineering. Why have 3-4 different cars with very little distinction except whether it’s a Pontiac/Buick/Chevy? That’s where I would be cutting first. (Yes other car manufacturers do this, but other manufacturers can AFFORD to do this and when they do, it usually makes sense). One should do a study on the cost of doing that simple brand engineering, from supply chain, to service/support.

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]

Guess what? That Aztek is an absolutely awesome vehicle. Now I know in third grade something that is funny looking is to be ridiculed but you know not of what you speak concerning that vehicle. How do i know? The Aztek is the sister SUV to my Buick. Crawl around and under one next time you see one. Beauty is skin deep and I think even the most Japanese of Japan fans will appreciate the mechanicle wonder of the vehicle.

[/quote]

HAHAHA Aztek? Are you FVCKING kidding me?

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=10

And second thing. Your Aztek/Buick Redezvous WASNT EVENT BUILT IN THE USA….IT WAS BUILT IN MEXICO…. The Rendezvous was produced at General Motors’ Ramos Arizpe, Mexico assembly plant, where it shared an assembly line with the Pontiac Aztek. So much for your argument about protectionism. unless, you consider “America” as “North America”. Yay…. go NAFTA….NOT!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/north_america/mexi_ramos.jsp

And thank you for bringing up the next point.
GM/Ford/Chrysler are notorious for over-brand-engineering. Why have 3-4 different cars with very little distinction except whether it’s a Pontiac/Buick/Chevy? That’s where I would be cutting first. (Yes other car manufacturers do this, but other manufacturers can AFFORD to do this and when they do, it usually makes sense). One should do a study on the cost of doing that simple brand engineering, from supply chain, to service/support.

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]

Guess what? That Aztek is an absolutely awesome vehicle. Now I know in third grade something that is funny looking is to be ridiculed but you know not of what you speak concerning that vehicle. How do i know? The Aztek is the sister SUV to my Buick. Crawl around and under one next time you see one. Beauty is skin deep and I think even the most Japanese of Japan fans will appreciate the mechanicle wonder of the vehicle.

[/quote]

HAHAHA Aztek? Are you FVCKING kidding me?

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=10

And second thing. Your Aztek/Buick Redezvous WASNT EVENT BUILT IN THE USA….IT WAS BUILT IN MEXICO…. The Rendezvous was produced at General Motors’ Ramos Arizpe, Mexico assembly plant, where it shared an assembly line with the Pontiac Aztek. So much for your argument about protectionism. unless, you consider “America” as “North America”. Yay…. go NAFTA….NOT!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/north_america/mexi_ramos.jsp

And thank you for bringing up the next point.
GM/Ford/Chrysler are notorious for over-brand-engineering. Why have 3-4 different cars with very little distinction except whether it’s a Pontiac/Buick/Chevy? That’s where I would be cutting first. (Yes other car manufacturers do this, but other manufacturers can AFFORD to do this and when they do, it usually makes sense). One should do a study on the cost of doing that simple brand engineering, from supply chain, to service/support.

[Coronita]

[quote=Scarlet]

Guess what? That Aztek is an absolutely awesome vehicle. Now I know in third grade something that is funny looking is to be ridiculed but you know not of what you speak concerning that vehicle. How do i know? The Aztek is the sister SUV to my Buick. Crawl around and under one next time you see one. Beauty is skin deep and I think even the most Japanese of Japan fans will appreciate the mechanicle wonder of the vehicle.

[/quote]

HAHAHA Aztek? Are you FVCKING kidding me?

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=10

And second thing. Your Aztek/Buick Redezvous WASNT EVENT BUILT IN THE USA….IT WAS BUILT IN MEXICO…. The Rendezvous was produced at General Motors’ Ramos Arizpe, Mexico assembly plant, where it shared an assembly line with the Pontiac Aztek. So much for your argument about protectionism. unless, you consider “America” as “North America”. Yay…. go NAFTA….NOT!

http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/global_operations/north_america/mexi_ramos.jsp

And thank you for bringing up the next point.
GM/Ford/Chrysler are notorious for over-brand-engineering. Why have 3-4 different cars with very little distinction except whether it’s a Pontiac/Buick/Chevy? That’s where I would be cutting first. (Yes other car manufacturers do this, but other manufacturers can AFFORD to do this and when they do, it usually makes sense). One should do a study on the cost of doing that simple brand engineering, from supply chain, to service/support.

[Anonymous]

The crash is not really the financial system, the crash is the ability of Americans to pay high prices for stuff because they no longer have the jobs to support it anymore. We are tapped out as a nation.

Henry Ford knew that if he paid his people well, they could afford the product they produced. Since everyone is being paid low wages and cannot afford the products they make (especially in china) there is no solid market under their products.

So the jig is up, we are tapped out, no amount of throwing money around will help us to spend more. No amount of trying to keep housing prices high will help sell more houses. Because the govt policies have killed the middle class, there are no more eligible consumers to purchase stuff.

Someone who makes a million salary is only going to buy one car at a time. Spreading that million over 10-20 people, means that the sales of cars will increase 10-20X. So as wealth is concentrated, sales of large items dial down accordingly.

It is no wonder that stuff is not getting sold and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to improve the situation. There is plenty of fault to go around, govt, banking, central banks rates, killing of glass stegal, stupid MBA schools, etc. The thought that we could grow infinitely in a finite world is based on stupidity. the market is saturated in every corner, low rates means that 5-10 years of future demand has been sold, this means that we have 5-10 years to sit around and wait until our wages rise or the excesses get flushed. The inflate or die attitude of the central bank is raising its stupid ugly head, so expect some real pain in the near future.

oil is back down near its 1998 price. I don’t see pump prices around $1. This means that some are not giving back their higher margins. This does not bode well for anyone.

good luck all,
StevenO

[Anonymous]

The crash is not really the financial system, the crash is the ability of Americans to pay high prices for stuff because they no longer have the jobs to support it anymore. We are tapped out as a nation.

Henry Ford knew that if he paid his people well, they could afford the product they produced. Since everyone is being paid low wages and cannot afford the products they make (especially in china) there is no solid market under their products.

So the jig is up, we are tapped out, no amount of throwing money around will help us to spend more. No amount of trying to keep housing prices high will help sell more houses. Because the govt policies have killed the middle class, there are no more eligible consumers to purchase stuff.

Someone who makes a million salary is only going to buy one car at a time. Spreading that million over 10-20 people, means that the sales of cars will increase 10-20X. So as wealth is concentrated, sales of large items dial down accordingly.

It is no wonder that stuff is not getting sold and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to improve the situation. There is plenty of fault to go around, govt, banking, central banks rates, killing of glass stegal, stupid MBA schools, etc. The thought that we could grow infinitely in a finite world is based on stupidity. the market is saturated in every corner, low rates means that 5-10 years of future demand has been sold, this means that we have 5-10 years to sit around and wait until our wages rise or the excesses get flushed. The inflate or die attitude of the central bank is raising its stupid ugly head, so expect some real pain in the near future.

oil is back down near its 1998 price. I don’t see pump prices around $1. This means that some are not giving back their higher margins. This does not bode well for anyone.

good luck all,
StevenO

[Anonymous]

The crash is not really the financial system, the crash is the ability of Americans to pay high prices for stuff because they no longer have the jobs to support it anymore. We are tapped out as a nation.

Henry Ford knew that if he paid his people well, they could afford the product they produced. Since everyone is being paid low wages and cannot afford the products they make (especially in china) there is no solid market under their products.

So the jig is up, we are tapped out, no amount of throwing money around will help us to spend more. No amount of trying to keep housing prices high will help sell more houses. Because the govt policies have killed the middle class, there are no more eligible consumers to purchase stuff.

Someone who makes a million salary is only going to buy one car at a time. Spreading that million over 10-20 people, means that the sales of cars will increase 10-20X. So as wealth is concentrated, sales of large items dial down accordingly.

It is no wonder that stuff is not getting sold and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to improve the situation. There is plenty of fault to go around, govt, banking, central banks rates, killing of glass stegal, stupid MBA schools, etc. The thought that we could grow infinitely in a finite world is based on stupidity. the market is saturated in every corner, low rates means that 5-10 years of future demand has been sold, this means that we have 5-10 years to sit around and wait until our wages rise or the excesses get flushed. The inflate or die attitude of the central bank is raising its stupid ugly head, so expect some real pain in the near future.

oil is back down near its 1998 price. I don’t see pump prices around $1. This means that some are not giving back their higher margins. This does not bode well for anyone.

good luck all,
StevenO

[Anonymous]

The crash is not really the financial system, the crash is the ability of Americans to pay high prices for stuff because they no longer have the jobs to support it anymore. We are tapped out as a nation.

Henry Ford knew that if he paid his people well, they could afford the product they produced. Since everyone is being paid low wages and cannot afford the products they make (especially in china) there is no solid market under their products.

So the jig is up, we are tapped out, no amount of throwing money around will help us to spend more. No amount of trying to keep housing prices high will help sell more houses. Because the govt policies have killed the middle class, there are no more eligible consumers to purchase stuff.

Someone who makes a million salary is only going to buy one car at a time. Spreading that million over 10-20 people, means that the sales of cars will increase 10-20X. So as wealth is concentrated, sales of large items dial down accordingly.

It is no wonder that stuff is not getting sold and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to improve the situation. There is plenty of fault to go around, govt, banking, central banks rates, killing of glass stegal, stupid MBA schools, etc. The thought that we could grow infinitely in a finite world is based on stupidity. the market is saturated in every corner, low rates means that 5-10 years of future demand has been sold, this means that we have 5-10 years to sit around and wait until our wages rise or the excesses get flushed. The inflate or die attitude of the central bank is raising its stupid ugly head, so expect some real pain in the near future.

oil is back down near its 1998 price. I don’t see pump prices around $1. This means that some are not giving back their higher margins. This does not bode well for anyone.

good luck all,
StevenO

[Anonymous]

The crash is not really the financial system, the crash is the ability of Americans to pay high prices for stuff because they no longer have the jobs to support it anymore. We are tapped out as a nation.

Henry Ford knew that if he paid his people well, they could afford the product they produced. Since everyone is being paid low wages and cannot afford the products they make (especially in china) there is no solid market under their products.

So the jig is up, we are tapped out, no amount of throwing money around will help us to spend more. No amount of trying to keep housing prices high will help sell more houses. Because the govt policies have killed the middle class, there are no more eligible consumers to purchase stuff.

Someone who makes a million salary is only going to buy one car at a time. Spreading that million over 10-20 people, means that the sales of cars will increase 10-20X. So as wealth is concentrated, sales of large items dial down accordingly.

It is no wonder that stuff is not getting sold and there is NOTHING that anyone can do to improve the situation. There is plenty of fault to go around, govt, banking, central banks rates, killing of glass stegal, stupid MBA schools, etc. The thought that we could grow infinitely in a finite world is based on stupidity. the market is saturated in every corner, low rates means that 5-10 years of future demand has been sold, this means that we have 5-10 years to sit around and wait until our wages rise or the excesses get flushed. The inflate or die attitude of the central bank is raising its stupid ugly head, so expect some real pain in the near future.

oil is back down near its 1998 price. I don’t see pump prices around $1. This means that some are not giving back their higher margins. This does not bode well for anyone.

good luck all,
StevenO

[Coronita]

This just keeps getting better and better at GM/Chrysler. You folks read what they are proposing to eliminate?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-Chrysler-seek-billions-apf-14396528.html

Chrysler. 3 cars: Eliminate Dodge Aspen, Durango and Chrysler PT Cruiser….BTW: they were ALREADY planning to eliminate two of these three cars anyway…
Is that the best “concession” Chrysler can make? How about replacing those gas guzzling 300m and jeep produces with an inline 4 or 6????? or dropping the dodge rebadged sedans that are nearly identical to the chrysler sedans?

GM: Eliminate Hummer and Saturn. Gee, it too this many quarters of losses and a second bailout from the Fed to figure out Hummer isn’t selling? And wait, eliminate saturn, one of the few brands that includes porfolio of GM cars from GM/europe, the branch that actually builds decent cars???
Meanwhile still keep Pontiac/Chevy with very little product distinctions at the lower/mid end…no cuts at GMC, despite demand for trucks/SUVs crumbing, and no cuts in Caddy, where the days of escalade and the gas gussling/overweight v-8 sedan are over?

Same old same old at the Big 2 apparently. Still out of touch with market reality.

Pretty soon it will be, Buy 1 Pontiac get a Chevy free, with all the excess inventory that these two are going to churn out if they get the $39billion.

I got a better idea. Why not retool some of these factories and just build tanks, and add to our war arsenal.

And here’s how the numbers are looking across the board 1/2009:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/03/by-the-numbers-january-2009-not-so-happy-new-year-edition?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_autoblog

GM -48.8%
Chrysler -54.8%
FoMoCo -40.2%

Meanwhile
Hyundai: + 14.3%
Kia: +3.5%
Nissan: -29.7%
Toyota: -31.7%
BWM: -15.5%
Honda: -27.9%
VW,Audi -11.6% / -26.4%

Yeah, no problem at the GM/Chrysler with their product mix there.

I have a prediction: Hyundai/Kia is going to emerge from this turmoil much stronger than the rest. Sales numbers dont lie…Their new product line is got it going on.

Chrysler is finished, with their current product line and product in the pipeline, and that includes the 200m.

[Coronita]

This just keeps getting better and better at GM/Chrysler. You folks read what they are proposing to eliminate?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-Chrysler-seek-billions-apf-14396528.html

Chrysler. 3 cars: Eliminate Dodge Aspen, Durango and Chrysler PT Cruiser….BTW: they were ALREADY planning to eliminate two of these three cars anyway…
Is that the best “concession” Chrysler can make? How about replacing those gas guzzling 300m and jeep produces with an inline 4 or 6????? or dropping the dodge rebadged sedans that are nearly identical to the chrysler sedans?

GM: Eliminate Hummer and Saturn. Gee, it too this many quarters of losses and a second bailout from the Fed to figure out Hummer isn’t selling? And wait, eliminate saturn, one of the few brands that includes porfolio of GM cars from GM/europe, the branch that actually builds decent cars???
Meanwhile still keep Pontiac/Chevy with very little product distinctions at the lower/mid end…no cuts at GMC, despite demand for trucks/SUVs crumbing, and no cuts in Caddy, where the days of escalade and the gas gussling/overweight v-8 sedan are over?

Same old same old at the Big 2 apparently. Still out of touch with market reality.

Pretty soon it will be, Buy 1 Pontiac get a Chevy free, with all the excess inventory that these two are going to churn out if they get the $39billion.

I got a better idea. Why not retool some of these factories and just build tanks, and add to our war arsenal.

And here’s how the numbers are looking across the board 1/2009:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/03/by-the-numbers-january-2009-not-so-happy-new-year-edition?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_autoblog

GM -48.8%
Chrysler -54.8%
FoMoCo -40.2%

Meanwhile
Hyundai: + 14.3%
Kia: +3.5%
Nissan: -29.7%
Toyota: -31.7%
BWM: -15.5%
Honda: -27.9%
VW,Audi -11.6% / -26.4%

Yeah, no problem at the GM/Chrysler with their product mix there.

I have a prediction: Hyundai/Kia is going to emerge from this turmoil much stronger than the rest. Sales numbers dont lie…Their new product line is got it going on.

Chrysler is finished, with their current product line and product in the pipeline, and that includes the 200m.

[Coronita]

This just keeps getting better and better at GM/Chrysler. You folks read what they are proposing to eliminate?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-Chrysler-seek-billions-apf-14396528.html

Chrysler. 3 cars: Eliminate Dodge Aspen, Durango and Chrysler PT Cruiser….BTW: they were ALREADY planning to eliminate two of these three cars anyway…
Is that the best “concession” Chrysler can make? How about replacing those gas guzzling 300m and jeep produces with an inline 4 or 6????? or dropping the dodge rebadged sedans that are nearly identical to the chrysler sedans?

GM: Eliminate Hummer and Saturn. Gee, it too this many quarters of losses and a second bailout from the Fed to figure out Hummer isn’t selling? And wait, eliminate saturn, one of the few brands that includes porfolio of GM cars from GM/europe, the branch that actually builds decent cars???
Meanwhile still keep Pontiac/Chevy with very little product distinctions at the lower/mid end…no cuts at GMC, despite demand for trucks/SUVs crumbing, and no cuts in Caddy, where the days of escalade and the gas gussling/overweight v-8 sedan are over?

Same old same old at the Big 2 apparently. Still out of touch with market reality.

Pretty soon it will be, Buy 1 Pontiac get a Chevy free, with all the excess inventory that these two are going to churn out if they get the $39billion.

I got a better idea. Why not retool some of these factories and just build tanks, and add to our war arsenal.

And here’s how the numbers are looking across the board 1/2009:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/03/by-the-numbers-january-2009-not-so-happy-new-year-edition?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_autoblog

GM -48.8%
Chrysler -54.8%
FoMoCo -40.2%

Meanwhile
Hyundai: + 14.3%
Kia: +3.5%
Nissan: -29.7%
Toyota: -31.7%
BWM: -15.5%
Honda: -27.9%
VW,Audi -11.6% / -26.4%

Yeah, no problem at the GM/Chrysler with their product mix there.

I have a prediction: Hyundai/Kia is going to emerge from this turmoil much stronger than the rest. Sales numbers dont lie…Their new product line is got it going on.

Chrysler is finished, with their current product line and product in the pipeline, and that includes the 200m.

[Coronita]

This just keeps getting better and better at GM/Chrysler. You folks read what they are proposing to eliminate?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-Chrysler-seek-billions-apf-14396528.html

Chrysler. 3 cars: Eliminate Dodge Aspen, Durango and Chrysler PT Cruiser….BTW: they were ALREADY planning to eliminate two of these three cars anyway…
Is that the best “concession” Chrysler can make? How about replacing those gas guzzling 300m and jeep produces with an inline 4 or 6????? or dropping the dodge rebadged sedans that are nearly identical to the chrysler sedans?

GM: Eliminate Hummer and Saturn. Gee, it too this many quarters of losses and a second bailout from the Fed to figure out Hummer isn’t selling? And wait, eliminate saturn, one of the few brands that includes porfolio of GM cars from GM/europe, the branch that actually builds decent cars???
Meanwhile still keep Pontiac/Chevy with very little product distinctions at the lower/mid end…no cuts at GMC, despite demand for trucks/SUVs crumbing, and no cuts in Caddy, where the days of escalade and the gas gussling/overweight v-8 sedan are over?

Same old same old at the Big 2 apparently. Still out of touch with market reality.

Pretty soon it will be, Buy 1 Pontiac get a Chevy free, with all the excess inventory that these two are going to churn out if they get the $39billion.

I got a better idea. Why not retool some of these factories and just build tanks, and add to our war arsenal.

And here’s how the numbers are looking across the board 1/2009:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/03/by-the-numbers-january-2009-not-so-happy-new-year-edition?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_autoblog

GM -48.8%
Chrysler -54.8%
FoMoCo -40.2%

Meanwhile
Hyundai: + 14.3%
Kia: +3.5%
Nissan: -29.7%
Toyota: -31.7%
BWM: -15.5%
Honda: -27.9%
VW,Audi -11.6% / -26.4%

Yeah, no problem at the GM/Chrysler with their product mix there.

I have a prediction: Hyundai/Kia is going to emerge from this turmoil much stronger than the rest. Sales numbers dont lie…Their new product line is got it going on.

Chrysler is finished, with their current product line and product in the pipeline, and that includes the 200m.

[Author]

Posts