OT: Gay History in California Public Schools

[briansd1]

[quote=ucodegen]

No.. gay male anglo professional.

female homosexuals tend towards the male on behavior (generalization).
male homosexuals tend towards the female on behavior (generalization).
You want someone neat, keeps to themselves, and a little anal-retentive.. (no pun intended there).[/quote]

I don’t think you’re been around many gay men. Gay men that I know love to party, have friends over, especially if they have places to host. That means somone has to clean and repair the house.

Generally, in real estate terms, people who choose to be roommates or housemates tend to do so to save money. Otherwise they would buy or rent their own places.

So money is an issue. The key is to find someone who won’t be periordically short of money because of blah, blah, blah… That means finding a housemate for whom saving money is a reason, but not the primary reason.

Anal-retentive is derogatory. I like fastidious better.

IMO, being fastidious is a very good trait like showing high intelligence. That puts you in the 90th percentile of the population.

If being normal means having the health and lifestyle standards of the average person, then I’m perfectly fine being abnormal or weird.

[NotCranky]

Shadowfax,
It would not be right to neglect your post.

Football is not in and by itself a straight indoctrination if the father is doing it to a non- football boy (or a girl), because of some level of Homophobia in himself.He is simply denying the boy his straightness and suitability as a male sans the macho. I think many of these wide range of “straight indoctrination” childhood experiences have similar holes in them.A child can play cops and robbers just because they like it and everyone else is playing, or even to exert “boyness”, while some dynamic is concurrently eroding that adaptation. Some of the stuff you are saying constitutes a pretty superficial look at things.

I have known one woman for life.Her father had 3 consecutive daughters. He was neurotic about thinking this was a threat his manliness. He turned the middle one into a tomboy. He always introduced her as “as good as any boy” (not a lousy girl). He was her favorite daughter and he somewhat neglected those less suited to be a “boy”. Nobody really thought much of this except to take notice that she did get exceptionally good at sports and eventually at having “girl friends”. Her two sisters started their sexual lives off as promiscuous wrecks or alternating between that and lesbian relationships but were eventually living straight lives. Knowledge of this dynamic and result affected me so much that every time I see a all girl family I remember it. You get sensitized after learning some case studies.

My friend’s sister’s dad harassed her in a similar fashion for being left-handed. In Mexico many ignorant people equate left handedness with being gay.It bothered my friends sister’s father so much for her to be left handed that he tortured her about her identity from really early on. Guess what happened to this shell shocked girl? Generalized family problems and divorce could have contributed.Self fulfilling proficy. I am sure the rest of the large family was not spared some “spectrum” or other relationship capacity destruction from his homophobia being expressed in their developemental childhood years. To some degree the I have seen them transfer their gender insecurity on to their own children. The spectrum thing should not be used to prove a genetic basis, it’s just that some kids take a more direct hit than others.

I know of two brothers very close together in age where the father constantly compared down the weaker one to the stronger who happened to be tougher than almost all boys. He called him all kinds of gender related insults. The boy started saying he was a girl at school in the 3rd grade. He was pushed.

There are so many direct hits for this type of thing and similar for homosexuals that there is no way it should be considered anectdotal.Many types of events would not even be considered for scrutiny yet they have a serious effect.Like I said, all psychologists know this. Gandalf, the dreamy lesbian conqueror knows this.

Very few people could or would go public with these things even if they had the ability, the courage and insight to peel back through time and unsort them. Many people do. It wouldn’t enable much change,as CARenter has pointed out, because we are only malleable for so long and sometimes the misdirection starts very,very, young, like the mom in the story you linked and I excerpted.

As for going through straight marriages and having children and coming out gay, that has nothing in it to address origins.

In today’s climate even if there are plenty of lurkers straight, gay or ex-gay, who could contribute to my point of view they would not. They would face criticism and denial of their experience from all sides and the fear that it could potentially follow them into their private lives.

I am not saying anything of this pertains to your sister, just giving you background for why I don’t take “nuture” lightly.

[NotCranky]

Shadowfax,
It would not be right to neglect your post.

Football is not in and by itself a straight indoctrination if the father is doing it to a non- football boy (or a girl), because of some level of Homophobia in himself.He is simply denying the boy his straightness and suitability as a male sans the macho. I think many of these wide range of “straight indoctrination” childhood experiences have similar holes in them.A child can play cops and robbers just because they like it and everyone else is playing, or even to exert “boyness”, while some dynamic is concurrently eroding that adaptation. Some of the stuff you are saying constitutes a pretty superficial look at things.

I have known one woman for life.Her father had 3 consecutive daughters. He was neurotic about thinking this was a threat his manliness. He turned the middle one into a tomboy. He always introduced her as “as good as any boy” (not a lousy girl). He was her favorite daughter and he somewhat neglected those less suited to be a “boy”. Nobody really thought much of this except to take notice that she did get exceptionally good at sports and eventually at having “girl friends”. Her two sisters started their sexual lives off as promiscuous wrecks or alternating between that and lesbian relationships but were eventually living straight lives. Knowledge of this dynamic and result affected me so much that every time I see a all girl family I remember it. You get sensitized after learning some case studies.

My friend’s sister’s dad harassed her in a similar fashion for being left-handed. In Mexico many ignorant people equate left handedness with being gay.It bothered my friends sister’s father so much for her to be left handed that he tortured her about her identity from really early on. Guess what happened to this shell shocked girl? Generalized family problems and divorce could have contributed.Self fulfilling proficy. I am sure the rest of the large family was not spared some “spectrum” or other relationship capacity destruction from his homophobia being expressed in their developemental childhood years. To some degree the I have seen them transfer their gender insecurity on to their own children. The spectrum thing should not be used to prove a genetic basis, it’s just that some kids take a more direct hit than others.

I know of two brothers very close together in age where the father constantly compared down the weaker one to the stronger who happened to be tougher than almost all boys. He called him all kinds of gender related insults. The boy started saying he was a girl at school in the 3rd grade. He was pushed.

There are so many direct hits for this type of thing and similar for homosexuals that there is no way it should be considered anectdotal.Many types of events would not even be considered for scrutiny yet they have a serious effect.Like I said, all psychologists know this. Gandalf, the dreamy lesbian conqueror knows this.

Very few people could or would go public with these things even if they had the ability, the courage and insight to peel back through time and unsort them. Many people do. It wouldn’t enable much change,as CARenter has pointed out, because we are only malleable for so long and sometimes the misdirection starts very,very, young, like the mom in the story you linked and I excerpted.

As for going through straight marriages and having children and coming out gay, that has nothing in it to address origins.

In today’s climate even if there are plenty of lurkers straight, gay or ex-gay, who could contribute to my point of view they would not. They would face criticism and denial of their experience from all sides and the fear that it could potentially follow them into their private lives.

I am not saying anything of this pertains to your sister, just giving you background for why I don’t take “nuture” lightly.

[NotCranky]

Shadowfax,
It would not be right to neglect your post.

Football is not in and by itself a straight indoctrination if the father is doing it to a non- football boy (or a girl), because of some level of Homophobia in himself.He is simply denying the boy his straightness and suitability as a male sans the macho. I think many of these wide range of “straight indoctrination” childhood experiences have similar holes in them.A child can play cops and robbers just because they like it and everyone else is playing, or even to exert “boyness”, while some dynamic is concurrently eroding that adaptation. Some of the stuff you are saying constitutes a pretty superficial look at things.

I have known one woman for life.Her father had 3 consecutive daughters. He was neurotic about thinking this was a threat his manliness. He turned the middle one into a tomboy. He always introduced her as “as good as any boy” (not a lousy girl). He was her favorite daughter and he somewhat neglected those less suited to be a “boy”. Nobody really thought much of this except to take notice that she did get exceptionally good at sports and eventually at having “girl friends”. Her two sisters started their sexual lives off as promiscuous wrecks or alternating between that and lesbian relationships but were eventually living straight lives. Knowledge of this dynamic and result affected me so much that every time I see a all girl family I remember it. You get sensitized after learning some case studies.

My friend’s sister’s dad harassed her in a similar fashion for being left-handed. In Mexico many ignorant people equate left handedness with being gay.It bothered my friends sister’s father so much for her to be left handed that he tortured her about her identity from really early on. Guess what happened to this shell shocked girl? Generalized family problems and divorce could have contributed.Self fulfilling proficy. I am sure the rest of the large family was not spared some “spectrum” or other relationship capacity destruction from his homophobia being expressed in their developemental childhood years. To some degree the I have seen them transfer their gender insecurity on to their own children. The spectrum thing should not be used to prove a genetic basis, it’s just that some kids take a more direct hit than others.

I know of two brothers very close together in age where the father constantly compared down the weaker one to the stronger who happened to be tougher than almost all boys. He called him all kinds of gender related insults. The boy started saying he was a girl at school in the 3rd grade. He was pushed.

There are so many direct hits for this type of thing and similar for homosexuals that there is no way it should be considered anectdotal.Many types of events would not even be considered for scrutiny yet they have a serious effect.Like I said, all psychologists know this. Gandalf, the dreamy lesbian conqueror knows this.

Very few people could or would go public with these things even if they had the ability, the courage and insight to peel back through time and unsort them. Many people do. It wouldn’t enable much change,as CARenter has pointed out, because we are only malleable for so long and sometimes the misdirection starts very,very, young, like the mom in the story you linked and I excerpted.

As for going through straight marriages and having children and coming out gay, that has nothing in it to address origins.

In today’s climate even if there are plenty of lurkers straight, gay or ex-gay, who could contribute to my point of view they would not. They would face criticism and denial of their experience from all sides and the fear that it could potentially follow them into their private lives.

I am not saying anything of this pertains to your sister, just giving you background for why I don’t take “nuture” lightly.

[NotCranky]

Shadowfax,
It would not be right to neglect your post.

Football is not in and by itself a straight indoctrination if the father is doing it to a non- football boy (or a girl), because of some level of Homophobia in himself.He is simply denying the boy his straightness and suitability as a male sans the macho. I think many of these wide range of “straight indoctrination” childhood experiences have similar holes in them.A child can play cops and robbers just because they like it and everyone else is playing, or even to exert “boyness”, while some dynamic is concurrently eroding that adaptation. Some of the stuff you are saying constitutes a pretty superficial look at things.

I have known one woman for life.Her father had 3 consecutive daughters. He was neurotic about thinking this was a threat his manliness. He turned the middle one into a tomboy. He always introduced her as “as good as any boy” (not a lousy girl). He was her favorite daughter and he somewhat neglected those less suited to be a “boy”. Nobody really thought much of this except to take notice that she did get exceptionally good at sports and eventually at having “girl friends”. Her two sisters started their sexual lives off as promiscuous wrecks or alternating between that and lesbian relationships but were eventually living straight lives. Knowledge of this dynamic and result affected me so much that every time I see a all girl family I remember it. You get sensitized after learning some case studies.

My friend’s sister’s dad harassed her in a similar fashion for being left-handed. In Mexico many ignorant people equate left handedness with being gay.It bothered my friends sister’s father so much for her to be left handed that he tortured her about her identity from really early on. Guess what happened to this shell shocked girl? Generalized family problems and divorce could have contributed.Self fulfilling proficy. I am sure the rest of the large family was not spared some “spectrum” or other relationship capacity destruction from his homophobia being expressed in their developemental childhood years. To some degree the I have seen them transfer their gender insecurity on to their own children. The spectrum thing should not be used to prove a genetic basis, it’s just that some kids take a more direct hit than others.

I know of two brothers very close together in age where the father constantly compared down the weaker one to the stronger who happened to be tougher than almost all boys. He called him all kinds of gender related insults. The boy started saying he was a girl at school in the 3rd grade. He was pushed.

There are so many direct hits for this type of thing and similar for homosexuals that there is no way it should be considered anectdotal.Many types of events would not even be considered for scrutiny yet they have a serious effect.Like I said, all psychologists know this. Gandalf, the dreamy lesbian conqueror knows this.

Very few people could or would go public with these things even if they had the ability, the courage and insight to peel back through time and unsort them. Many people do. It wouldn’t enable much change,as CARenter has pointed out, because we are only malleable for so long and sometimes the misdirection starts very,very, young, like the mom in the story you linked and I excerpted.

As for going through straight marriages and having children and coming out gay, that has nothing in it to address origins.

In today’s climate even if there are plenty of lurkers straight, gay or ex-gay, who could contribute to my point of view they would not. They would face criticism and denial of their experience from all sides and the fear that it could potentially follow them into their private lives.

I am not saying anything of this pertains to your sister, just giving you background for why I don’t take “nuture” lightly.

[NotCranky]

Shadowfax,
It would not be right to neglect your post.

Football is not in and by itself a straight indoctrination if the father is doing it to a non- football boy (or a girl), because of some level of Homophobia in himself.He is simply denying the boy his straightness and suitability as a male sans the macho. I think many of these wide range of “straight indoctrination” childhood experiences have similar holes in them.A child can play cops and robbers just because they like it and everyone else is playing, or even to exert “boyness”, while some dynamic is concurrently eroding that adaptation. Some of the stuff you are saying constitutes a pretty superficial look at things.

I have known one woman for life.Her father had 3 consecutive daughters. He was neurotic about thinking this was a threat his manliness. He turned the middle one into a tomboy. He always introduced her as “as good as any boy” (not a lousy girl). He was her favorite daughter and he somewhat neglected those less suited to be a “boy”. Nobody really thought much of this except to take notice that she did get exceptionally good at sports and eventually at having “girl friends”. Her two sisters started their sexual lives off as promiscuous wrecks or alternating between that and lesbian relationships but were eventually living straight lives. Knowledge of this dynamic and result affected me so much that every time I see a all girl family I remember it. You get sensitized after learning some case studies.

My friend’s sister’s dad harassed her in a similar fashion for being left-handed. In Mexico many ignorant people equate left handedness with being gay.It bothered my friends sister’s father so much for her to be left handed that he tortured her about her identity from really early on. Guess what happened to this shell shocked girl? Generalized family problems and divorce could have contributed.Self fulfilling proficy. I am sure the rest of the large family was not spared some “spectrum” or other relationship capacity destruction from his homophobia being expressed in their developemental childhood years. To some degree the I have seen them transfer their gender insecurity on to their own children. The spectrum thing should not be used to prove a genetic basis, it’s just that some kids take a more direct hit than others.

I know of two brothers very close together in age where the father constantly compared down the weaker one to the stronger who happened to be tougher than almost all boys. He called him all kinds of gender related insults. The boy started saying he was a girl at school in the 3rd grade. He was pushed.

There are so many direct hits for this type of thing and similar for homosexuals that there is no way it should be considered anectdotal.Many types of events would not even be considered for scrutiny yet they have a serious effect.Like I said, all psychologists know this. Gandalf, the dreamy lesbian conqueror knows this.

Very few people could or would go public with these things even if they had the ability, the courage and insight to peel back through time and unsort them. Many people do. It wouldn’t enable much change,as CARenter has pointed out, because we are only malleable for so long and sometimes the misdirection starts very,very, young, like the mom in the story you linked and I excerpted.

As for going through straight marriages and having children and coming out gay, that has nothing in it to address origins.

In today’s climate even if there are plenty of lurkers straight, gay or ex-gay, who could contribute to my point of view they would not. They would face criticism and denial of their experience from all sides and the fear that it could potentially follow them into their private lives.

I am not saying anything of this pertains to your sister, just giving you background for why I don’t take “nuture” lightly.

[briansd1]

[quote=captcha][quote=briansd1]
IMHO, the most important qualities in a tenant that is he/she be clean and organized, and will pay rent on time, without sob stories about late rent.[/quote]

And the first image that comes to mind is a gay, female Asian professional? ;)[/quote]

The lesbian part was happenstance.

I could go on some generalizations, but I don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes about educational level, parents’ education level, country of origin, etc…

But unlike homosexuality, health and lifestyle standards are very much a product of environment and upbringing. That’s why I like to visit people’s houses. You get first hand indication on their lifestyle standards.

[briansd1]

[quote=captcha][quote=briansd1]
IMHO, the most important qualities in a tenant that is he/she be clean and organized, and will pay rent on time, without sob stories about late rent.[/quote]

And the first image that comes to mind is a gay, female Asian professional? ;)[/quote]

The lesbian part was happenstance.

I could go on some generalizations, but I don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes about educational level, parents’ education level, country of origin, etc…

But unlike homosexuality, health and lifestyle standards are very much a product of environment and upbringing. That’s why I like to visit people’s houses. You get first hand indication on their lifestyle standards.

[briansd1]

[quote=captcha][quote=briansd1]
IMHO, the most important qualities in a tenant that is he/she be clean and organized, and will pay rent on time, without sob stories about late rent.[/quote]

And the first image that comes to mind is a gay, female Asian professional? ;)[/quote]

The lesbian part was happenstance.

I could go on some generalizations, but I don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes about educational level, parents’ education level, country of origin, etc…

But unlike homosexuality, health and lifestyle standards are very much a product of environment and upbringing. That’s why I like to visit people’s houses. You get first hand indication on their lifestyle standards.

[briansd1]

[quote=captcha][quote=briansd1]
IMHO, the most important qualities in a tenant that is he/she be clean and organized, and will pay rent on time, without sob stories about late rent.[/quote]

And the first image that comes to mind is a gay, female Asian professional? ;)[/quote]

The lesbian part was happenstance.

I could go on some generalizations, but I don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes about educational level, parents’ education level, country of origin, etc…

But unlike homosexuality, health and lifestyle standards are very much a product of environment and upbringing. That’s why I like to visit people’s houses. You get first hand indication on their lifestyle standards.

[briansd1]

[quote=captcha][quote=briansd1]
IMHO, the most important qualities in a tenant that is he/she be clean and organized, and will pay rent on time, without sob stories about late rent.[/quote]

And the first image that comes to mind is a gay, female Asian professional? ;)[/quote]

The lesbian part was happenstance.

I could go on some generalizations, but I don’t want to perpetuate stereotypes about educational level, parents’ education level, country of origin, etc…

But unlike homosexuality, health and lifestyle standards are very much a product of environment and upbringing. That’s why I like to visit people’s houses. You get first hand indication on their lifestyle standards.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]I don’t think you’re been around many gay men. Gay men that I know love to party, have friends over, especially if they have places to host. That means somone has to clean and repair the house.[/quote]
No, just different gay men than the ones you seem to run into. Maybe the ones your are running to are more bi than gay?

[quote briansd1]Anal-retentive is derogatory. I like fastidious better.[/quote]
fastidious would fit better with ‘neat’. How then would you describe always being on time with payments, notifying you promptly if there are problems with the property, and not abusing energy/water usage in a shared environment? -as a personality trait.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]I don’t think you’re been around many gay men. Gay men that I know love to party, have friends over, especially if they have places to host. That means somone has to clean and repair the house.[/quote]
No, just different gay men than the ones you seem to run into. Maybe the ones your are running to are more bi than gay?

[quote briansd1]Anal-retentive is derogatory. I like fastidious better.[/quote]
fastidious would fit better with ‘neat’. How then would you describe always being on time with payments, notifying you promptly if there are problems with the property, and not abusing energy/water usage in a shared environment? -as a personality trait.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]I don’t think you’re been around many gay men. Gay men that I know love to party, have friends over, especially if they have places to host. That means somone has to clean and repair the house.[/quote]
No, just different gay men than the ones you seem to run into. Maybe the ones your are running to are more bi than gay?

[quote briansd1]Anal-retentive is derogatory. I like fastidious better.[/quote]
fastidious would fit better with ‘neat’. How then would you describe always being on time with payments, notifying you promptly if there are problems with the property, and not abusing energy/water usage in a shared environment? -as a personality trait.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]I don’t think you’re been around many gay men. Gay men that I know love to party, have friends over, especially if they have places to host. That means somone has to clean and repair the house.[/quote]
No, just different gay men than the ones you seem to run into. Maybe the ones your are running to are more bi than gay?

[quote briansd1]Anal-retentive is derogatory. I like fastidious better.[/quote]
fastidious would fit better with ‘neat’. How then would you describe always being on time with payments, notifying you promptly if there are problems with the property, and not abusing energy/water usage in a shared environment? -as a personality trait.

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