Joe Legal vs Jose Illegal

[NotCranky]

Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?

[briansd1]

[quote=Russell]Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?[/quote]

Russell, you’re asking people to look at the big picture and to self-examine. That’s hard and painful for most people to do.

Kiss up and kick down is a typical human trait. People have survived for millions of years by ingratiating themselves (oftentimes to their own detriment) to the more powerful.

That’s why the Republican masses with no teeth or health care in Mississippi would vote for Haley Barbour. I can’t blame them for doing so but sometimes I just wonder…

[briansd1]

[quote=Russell]Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?[/quote]

Russell, you’re asking people to look at the big picture and to self-examine. That’s hard and painful for most people to do.

Kiss up and kick down is a typical human trait. People have survived for millions of years by ingratiating themselves (oftentimes to their own detriment) to the more powerful.

That’s why the Republican masses with no teeth or health care in Mississippi would vote for Haley Barbour. I can’t blame them for doing so but sometimes I just wonder…

[briansd1]

[quote=Russell]Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?[/quote]

Russell, you’re asking people to look at the big picture and to self-examine. That’s hard and painful for most people to do.

Kiss up and kick down is a typical human trait. People have survived for millions of years by ingratiating themselves (oftentimes to their own detriment) to the more powerful.

That’s why the Republican masses with no teeth or health care in Mississippi would vote for Haley Barbour. I can’t blame them for doing so but sometimes I just wonder…

[briansd1]

[quote=Russell]Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?[/quote]

Russell, you’re asking people to look at the big picture and to self-examine. That’s hard and painful for most people to do.

Kiss up and kick down is a typical human trait. People have survived for millions of years by ingratiating themselves (oftentimes to their own detriment) to the more powerful.

That’s why the Republican masses with no teeth or health care in Mississippi would vote for Haley Barbour. I can’t blame them for doing so but sometimes I just wonder…

[briansd1]

[quote=Russell]Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?[/quote]

Russell, you’re asking people to look at the big picture and to self-examine. That’s hard and painful for most people to do.

Kiss up and kick down is a typical human trait. People have survived for millions of years by ingratiating themselves (oftentimes to their own detriment) to the more powerful.

That’s why the Republican masses with no teeth or health care in Mississippi would vote for Haley Barbour. I can’t blame them for doing so but sometimes I just wonder…

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[ucodegen]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

In part true.. but while we continually worry of how we treat Mexican citizens when they are in the U.S., we also have to be conscious of how they treat U.S. citizens when we are in their country. It is not a straw man argument though. This is why I mentioned it as something to ponder. It is not supportive of, or contradictory to either of our positions, which is why I labeled it as some things to ponder.

[ucodegen]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

In part true.. but while we continually worry of how we treat Mexican citizens when they are in the U.S., we also have to be conscious of how they treat U.S. citizens when we are in their country. It is not a straw man argument though. This is why I mentioned it as something to ponder. It is not supportive of, or contradictory to either of our positions, which is why I labeled it as some things to ponder.

[ucodegen]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

In part true.. but while we continually worry of how we treat Mexican citizens when they are in the U.S., we also have to be conscious of how they treat U.S. citizens when we are in their country. It is not a straw man argument though. This is why I mentioned it as something to ponder. It is not supportive of, or contradictory to either of our positions, which is why I labeled it as some things to ponder.

[ucodegen]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

In part true.. but while we continually worry of how we treat Mexican citizens when they are in the U.S., we also have to be conscious of how they treat U.S. citizens when we are in their country. It is not a straw man argument though. This is why I mentioned it as something to ponder. It is not supportive of, or contradictory to either of our positions, which is why I labeled it as some things to ponder.

[Author]

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