Joe Legal vs Jose Illegal

[Arraya]

The Great Depression of the 1930s hit Mexican immigrants especially hard. Along with the job crisis and food shortages that affected all U.S. workers, Mexicans and Mexican Americans had to face an additional threat: deportation. As unemployment swept the U.S., hostility to immigrant workers grew, and the government began a program of repatriating immigrants to Mexico. Immigrants were offered free train rides to Mexico, and some went voluntarily, but many were either tricked or coerced into repatriation, and some U.S. citizens were deported simply on suspicion of being Mexican. All in all, hundreds of thousands of Mexican immigrants, especially farmworkers, were sent out of the country during the 1930s–many of them the same workers who had been eagerly recruited a decade before.

The farmworkers who remained struggled to survive in desperate conditions. Bank foreclosures drove small farmers from their land, and large landholders cut back on their permanent workforce. As with many Southwestern farm families, a great number of Mexican American farmers discovered they had to take on a migratory existence and traveled the highways in search of work.

El Rio – Mexican FSA Camp – 1940.
Many found temporary stability in the migrant work camps established by the U.S. Farm Security Administration, or FSA. The FSA camps provided housing, food, and medicine for migrant farm families, as well as protection from criminal elements that often took advantage of vulnerable migrants. The FSA set up several camps specifically for Mexican Americans in an attempt to create safe havens from violent attacks.

[ucodegen]

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was in El Cajon there was a young kid,hispanic who spoke spanish who was using a nail gun during “construction” of one of those apt-to-condo things. Well he was mindlessly nailing the plywood with the gun, just trying to get it stuck back together, it was hilarious and sad at the same time. I wonder how many pipes or wires he must have hit?

Nailgun in the hands of someone inexperienced? That scares the sh*t out of me. It is not called a Nailgun for the heck of it. It can easily put a 16d nail through someones skull, eyes or other body parts.
I’ve seen the same type of thing. I put myself through college doing construction and had the opportunity to ‘inherit’ the journeyman carpenter’s business at 18 (I could have quit college and took up the business). I passed on it. I saw the writing on the wall. I put a lot of the blame on ‘beancounters’ with no experience in the business. The ‘beancounters’ would compare the hourly rate and use that for sole determination, ignoring rework, quality and production rates.

I have also seen the ‘rework’ of these guys. Case in point, a recently purchased new house had damage to the bathtub (probably a hammer dropping on it). Part of the purchase agreement was for the tub to be replaced. Because tubs have an outer raised lip that fits under the tile, the tub has to be ‘cut’ out of the wall. The person who cut out the tub did the cut in one pass.. through the tile, creteboard/cement backing board, moisture barrier, OSB/Green-rock. This creates the problem where the seam between the replaced tile and existing tile is not supported and will flex, breaking the grout and allowing water all the way into the wall. The cuts are supposed to be ‘staggered’ and the cut behind the OSB/Green-rock needs to be ‘crippled’.

Your posts are spot-on. Don’t let the emotional and personal attacks bother you. It simply means they don’t have a valid, logical argument.

Thanks.. I don’t let them bother me.. but I do address them directly and call the attacks for what they are.

BTW, I’d much prefer paying $3.00 per head of lettuce than $.50, if it meant the worker who picked it was legal and earning a livable wage and good benefits; but that’s just me.

I will never fall for the argument that cheaper produce (and we really don’t **know** that, do we?)

Interesting that you mention this. Lettuce is largely picked mechanically, as are beets, potatoes, celery, etc. If you have the book “The Way Things Work”, Simon and Schuster publisher; vol 1 page 434 is a lightweight description of how a beet harvester works. A lettuce harvester is similar except it doesn’t have to pick up the root and effectively the top of the ‘beet’ is the lettuce head in the device. I got the series for my 8th Christmas birthday.

Apples, Oranges, Avocados, Strawberries, etc are picked manually. I wouldn’t be surprised if Strawberries can be picked mechanically since the plant can be sacrificed at picking time.

[ucodegen]

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was in El Cajon there was a young kid,hispanic who spoke spanish who was using a nail gun during “construction” of one of those apt-to-condo things. Well he was mindlessly nailing the plywood with the gun, just trying to get it stuck back together, it was hilarious and sad at the same time. I wonder how many pipes or wires he must have hit?

Nailgun in the hands of someone inexperienced? That scares the sh*t out of me. It is not called a Nailgun for the heck of it. It can easily put a 16d nail through someones skull, eyes or other body parts.
I’ve seen the same type of thing. I put myself through college doing construction and had the opportunity to ‘inherit’ the journeyman carpenter’s business at 18 (I could have quit college and took up the business). I passed on it. I saw the writing on the wall. I put a lot of the blame on ‘beancounters’ with no experience in the business. The ‘beancounters’ would compare the hourly rate and use that for sole determination, ignoring rework, quality and production rates.

I have also seen the ‘rework’ of these guys. Case in point, a recently purchased new house had damage to the bathtub (probably a hammer dropping on it). Part of the purchase agreement was for the tub to be replaced. Because tubs have an outer raised lip that fits under the tile, the tub has to be ‘cut’ out of the wall. The person who cut out the tub did the cut in one pass.. through the tile, creteboard/cement backing board, moisture barrier, OSB/Green-rock. This creates the problem where the seam between the replaced tile and existing tile is not supported and will flex, breaking the grout and allowing water all the way into the wall. The cuts are supposed to be ‘staggered’ and the cut behind the OSB/Green-rock needs to be ‘crippled’.

Your posts are spot-on. Don’t let the emotional and personal attacks bother you. It simply means they don’t have a valid, logical argument.

Thanks.. I don’t let them bother me.. but I do address them directly and call the attacks for what they are.

BTW, I’d much prefer paying $3.00 per head of lettuce than $.50, if it meant the worker who picked it was legal and earning a livable wage and good benefits; but that’s just me.

I will never fall for the argument that cheaper produce (and we really don’t **know** that, do we?)

Interesting that you mention this. Lettuce is largely picked mechanically, as are beets, potatoes, celery, etc. If you have the book “The Way Things Work”, Simon and Schuster publisher; vol 1 page 434 is a lightweight description of how a beet harvester works. A lettuce harvester is similar except it doesn’t have to pick up the root and effectively the top of the ‘beet’ is the lettuce head in the device. I got the series for my 8th Christmas birthday.

Apples, Oranges, Avocados, Strawberries, etc are picked manually. I wouldn’t be surprised if Strawberries can be picked mechanically since the plant can be sacrificed at picking time.

[ucodegen]

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was in El Cajon there was a young kid,hispanic who spoke spanish who was using a nail gun during “construction” of one of those apt-to-condo things. Well he was mindlessly nailing the plywood with the gun, just trying to get it stuck back together, it was hilarious and sad at the same time. I wonder how many pipes or wires he must have hit?

Nailgun in the hands of someone inexperienced? That scares the sh*t out of me. It is not called a Nailgun for the heck of it. It can easily put a 16d nail through someones skull, eyes or other body parts.
I’ve seen the same type of thing. I put myself through college doing construction and had the opportunity to ‘inherit’ the journeyman carpenter’s business at 18 (I could have quit college and took up the business). I passed on it. I saw the writing on the wall. I put a lot of the blame on ‘beancounters’ with no experience in the business. The ‘beancounters’ would compare the hourly rate and use that for sole determination, ignoring rework, quality and production rates.

I have also seen the ‘rework’ of these guys. Case in point, a recently purchased new house had damage to the bathtub (probably a hammer dropping on it). Part of the purchase agreement was for the tub to be replaced. Because tubs have an outer raised lip that fits under the tile, the tub has to be ‘cut’ out of the wall. The person who cut out the tub did the cut in one pass.. through the tile, creteboard/cement backing board, moisture barrier, OSB/Green-rock. This creates the problem where the seam between the replaced tile and existing tile is not supported and will flex, breaking the grout and allowing water all the way into the wall. The cuts are supposed to be ‘staggered’ and the cut behind the OSB/Green-rock needs to be ‘crippled’.

Your posts are spot-on. Don’t let the emotional and personal attacks bother you. It simply means they don’t have a valid, logical argument.

Thanks.. I don’t let them bother me.. but I do address them directly and call the attacks for what they are.

BTW, I’d much prefer paying $3.00 per head of lettuce than $.50, if it meant the worker who picked it was legal and earning a livable wage and good benefits; but that’s just me.

I will never fall for the argument that cheaper produce (and we really don’t **know** that, do we?)

Interesting that you mention this. Lettuce is largely picked mechanically, as are beets, potatoes, celery, etc. If you have the book “The Way Things Work”, Simon and Schuster publisher; vol 1 page 434 is a lightweight description of how a beet harvester works. A lettuce harvester is similar except it doesn’t have to pick up the root and effectively the top of the ‘beet’ is the lettuce head in the device. I got the series for my 8th Christmas birthday.

Apples, Oranges, Avocados, Strawberries, etc are picked manually. I wouldn’t be surprised if Strawberries can be picked mechanically since the plant can be sacrificed at picking time.

[ucodegen]

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was in El Cajon there was a young kid,hispanic who spoke spanish who was using a nail gun during “construction” of one of those apt-to-condo things. Well he was mindlessly nailing the plywood with the gun, just trying to get it stuck back together, it was hilarious and sad at the same time. I wonder how many pipes or wires he must have hit?

Nailgun in the hands of someone inexperienced? That scares the sh*t out of me. It is not called a Nailgun for the heck of it. It can easily put a 16d nail through someones skull, eyes or other body parts.
I’ve seen the same type of thing. I put myself through college doing construction and had the opportunity to ‘inherit’ the journeyman carpenter’s business at 18 (I could have quit college and took up the business). I passed on it. I saw the writing on the wall. I put a lot of the blame on ‘beancounters’ with no experience in the business. The ‘beancounters’ would compare the hourly rate and use that for sole determination, ignoring rework, quality and production rates.

I have also seen the ‘rework’ of these guys. Case in point, a recently purchased new house had damage to the bathtub (probably a hammer dropping on it). Part of the purchase agreement was for the tub to be replaced. Because tubs have an outer raised lip that fits under the tile, the tub has to be ‘cut’ out of the wall. The person who cut out the tub did the cut in one pass.. through the tile, creteboard/cement backing board, moisture barrier, OSB/Green-rock. This creates the problem where the seam between the replaced tile and existing tile is not supported and will flex, breaking the grout and allowing water all the way into the wall. The cuts are supposed to be ‘staggered’ and the cut behind the OSB/Green-rock needs to be ‘crippled’.

Your posts are spot-on. Don’t let the emotional and personal attacks bother you. It simply means they don’t have a valid, logical argument.

Thanks.. I don’t let them bother me.. but I do address them directly and call the attacks for what they are.

BTW, I’d much prefer paying $3.00 per head of lettuce than $.50, if it meant the worker who picked it was legal and earning a livable wage and good benefits; but that’s just me.

I will never fall for the argument that cheaper produce (and we really don’t **know** that, do we?)

Interesting that you mention this. Lettuce is largely picked mechanically, as are beets, potatoes, celery, etc. If you have the book “The Way Things Work”, Simon and Schuster publisher; vol 1 page 434 is a lightweight description of how a beet harvester works. A lettuce harvester is similar except it doesn’t have to pick up the root and effectively the top of the ‘beet’ is the lettuce head in the device. I got the series for my 8th Christmas birthday.

Apples, Oranges, Avocados, Strawberries, etc are picked manually. I wouldn’t be surprised if Strawberries can be picked mechanically since the plant can be sacrificed at picking time.

[ucodegen]

This reminds me of a few years ago when I was in El Cajon there was a young kid,hispanic who spoke spanish who was using a nail gun during “construction” of one of those apt-to-condo things. Well he was mindlessly nailing the plywood with the gun, just trying to get it stuck back together, it was hilarious and sad at the same time. I wonder how many pipes or wires he must have hit?

Nailgun in the hands of someone inexperienced? That scares the sh*t out of me. It is not called a Nailgun for the heck of it. It can easily put a 16d nail through someones skull, eyes or other body parts.
I’ve seen the same type of thing. I put myself through college doing construction and had the opportunity to ‘inherit’ the journeyman carpenter’s business at 18 (I could have quit college and took up the business). I passed on it. I saw the writing on the wall. I put a lot of the blame on ‘beancounters’ with no experience in the business. The ‘beancounters’ would compare the hourly rate and use that for sole determination, ignoring rework, quality and production rates.

I have also seen the ‘rework’ of these guys. Case in point, a recently purchased new house had damage to the bathtub (probably a hammer dropping on it). Part of the purchase agreement was for the tub to be replaced. Because tubs have an outer raised lip that fits under the tile, the tub has to be ‘cut’ out of the wall. The person who cut out the tub did the cut in one pass.. through the tile, creteboard/cement backing board, moisture barrier, OSB/Green-rock. This creates the problem where the seam between the replaced tile and existing tile is not supported and will flex, breaking the grout and allowing water all the way into the wall. The cuts are supposed to be ‘staggered’ and the cut behind the OSB/Green-rock needs to be ‘crippled’.

Your posts are spot-on. Don’t let the emotional and personal attacks bother you. It simply means they don’t have a valid, logical argument.

Thanks.. I don’t let them bother me.. but I do address them directly and call the attacks for what they are.

BTW, I’d much prefer paying $3.00 per head of lettuce than $.50, if it meant the worker who picked it was legal and earning a livable wage and good benefits; but that’s just me.

I will never fall for the argument that cheaper produce (and we really don’t **know** that, do we?)

Interesting that you mention this. Lettuce is largely picked mechanically, as are beets, potatoes, celery, etc. If you have the book “The Way Things Work”, Simon and Schuster publisher; vol 1 page 434 is a lightweight description of how a beet harvester works. A lettuce harvester is similar except it doesn’t have to pick up the root and effectively the top of the ‘beet’ is the lettuce head in the device. I got the series for my 8th Christmas birthday.

Apples, Oranges, Avocados, Strawberries, etc are picked manually. I wouldn’t be surprised if Strawberries can be picked mechanically since the plant can be sacrificed at picking time.

[ucodegen]

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words.

I said ‘attempts’. Whether it is successful or not depends upon the personality of the person being targeted.

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.

Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.

[ucodegen]

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words.

I said ‘attempts’. Whether it is successful or not depends upon the personality of the person being targeted.

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.

Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.

[ucodegen]

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words.

I said ‘attempts’. Whether it is successful or not depends upon the personality of the person being targeted.

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.

Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.

[ucodegen]

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words.

I said ‘attempts’. Whether it is successful or not depends upon the personality of the person being targeted.

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.

Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.

[ucodegen]

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words.

I said ‘attempts’. Whether it is successful or not depends upon the personality of the person being targeted.

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.

Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.

[NotCranky]

Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?

[NotCranky]

Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?

[NotCranky]

Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?

[NotCranky]

Fudging is ubiquitous. I can’t blame people for targeting “illegals” specifically, even though I don’t agree with them. What I do wonder is do they also target the moral slippery slopes of their own existence and enterprise? Or it is a “kiss up kick down kind” of thing,which enables us to maintain ourselves deluded about our moral position compared to that of the inferiors standing below the proverbial pedestal? Are we absolved of our sins by picking on the little fish in a sea of corruption… and justify it because he comes from the other side of a line drawn in the sandy bottom of that murky sea?

[Author]

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