OT: parenting and the santa barbara shooter

[FlyerInHi]

Without guns he may have been able to kill using others means but there would be no shooting spree.

Sick people who shoot do so for the sensational effects of shooting. Plus there is a copycat effect that begets more shootings.
I’m pretty certain none of this would have happened has Elliot not been able to buy guns.

The second amendment is a separate issue, if you want to argue that random shootings is the price of freedom then all the more power to you. But jazzman made an excellent point re access to guns.

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Without guns he may have been able to kill using others means but there would be no shooting spree.

Sick people who shoot do so for the sensational effects of shooting. Plus there is a copycat effect that begets more shootings.
I’m pretty certain none of this would have happened has Elliot not been able to buy guns.

The second amendment is a separate issue, if you want to argue that random shootings is the price of freedom then all the more power to you. But jazzman made an excellent point re access to guns.[/quote]

Personally, I’d rather be shot than stabbed to death. The sickest of murderers like to use knives or other hand tools because they are closer to their victims when the kill them and can more easily torture them first. To each his own, I guess.

You’re totally wrong, though, about this guy not killing if guns were illegal. Someone who is hell-bent on killing will do so, no matter what kind of gun laws are in place.

[FlyerInHi]

Convenience makes all the difference in how often people will do things. Every rational person knows that.

[CA renter]

If you believe that, Brian, then you don’t understand how these people work. The most dangerous criminals like a challenge.

[FlyerInHi]

I use economic principles.

Make guns 100 times more expensive and you still would not violate the second amendment and there will be less shootings, period.

Raise the price if gas and people will drive less. Simple.

There are levers you can pull to achieve aggregate behavior change.

[CA renter]

OR…you’d have more gun thefts.

OR…they’d just use different tools.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter] The most dangerous criminals like a challenge.[/quote]

Yes, but Elliot Rodgers was not a most dangerous criminals.

I’m pretty convinced Elliot Rogers would not have began the killing spree had he not been able to buy a gun. He would not even have stabbed his roommates to then continue on with the shooting spree. The series of killings were all related.

To me, gun controls is like seat belt laws or food safety. Is it worth it to mandate certain things to save a few thousand lives per year?

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter] The most dangerous criminals like a challenge.[/quote]

Yes, but Elliot Rodgers was not a most dangerous criminals.

I’m pretty convinced Elliot Rogers would not have began the killing spree had he not been able to buy a gun. He would not even have stabbed his roommates to then continue on with the shooting spree. The series of killings were all related.

To me, gun controls is like seat belt laws or food safety. Is it worth it to mandate certain things to save a few thousand lives per year?[/quote]

the odds of persuading anyone toa different position are vanishingly. small.

[scaredyclassic]

i feel there is something different about this situation. the number of issues it touches are enormous.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter] The most dangerous criminals like a challenge.[/quote]

Yes, but Elliot Rodgers was not a most dangerous criminals.

I’m pretty convinced Elliot Rogers would not have began the killing spree had he not been able to buy a gun. He would not even have stabbed his roommates to then continue on with the shooting spree. The series of killings were all related.

To me, gun controls is like seat belt laws or food safety. Is it worth it to mandate certain things to save a few thousand lives per year?[/quote]

the odds of persuading anyone toa different position are vanishingly. small.[/quote]

Very true, on both sides.

[FormerOwner]

Key question: What prescription psychoactive drugs was this boy on?

This documentary is very relevant to this issue:
http://youtu.be/UDlH9sV0lHU

[NotCranky]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar]The statement was the he came from a “good Family” how does anyone know?
[/quote]

I don’t know, but I’m assuming.

It’s like when you a get letters of recommendation. how do you know the people who wrote them are “good”? you’re just assuming.

you may assume that good parenting is spending a lot of time at the job the parenting, talking and playing and spending all your free time with the kids. I think it may turn them into needy adults, who have to call their moms at every little setbacks.

I think that sending kids to boarding academy and seeing them only during the holidays is good parenting. It depends on the children, but generally, I think it’s good.[/quote]

Well your assumption doesn’t seem to be holding up. Looks like a case of Elliot Rodgers=Garbage in Garbage out.

[Coronita]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I use economic principles.

Make guns 100 times more expensive and you still would not violate the second amendment and there will be less shootings, period.

Raise the price if gas and people will drive less. Simple.

There are levers you can pull to achieve aggregate behavior change.[/quote]

I got a better solution. In this particular case…

Ban knives and BMW’s…Or raise prices so knives and BMW’s are incredibly expensive….I’m sure that would be as effective too…

Might also want to ban gasoline and fertilizer too….

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=flu]
I got a better solution. In this particular case…

Ban knives and BMW’s…Or raise prices so knives and BMW’s are incredibly expensive….I’m sure that would be as effective too…

Might also want to ban gasoline and fertilizer too….[/quote]

You’re being facetious.

There’s a balance to everything. We don’t want to do any of that because car sales are good for business and the economy. Cars pollute and kill but we want convenience and transportation. We need knives in the kitchen.

Making guns very expensive and inconvenient to own would hardly affect our day to day lives. Also back in the 18th century, when the second amendment was adopted, guns represented a huge portion of owners’ networth. Making guns ultra expensive today would be very proportionate to their value back in the 18th century.

We can achieve lower gun deaths if we want to.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Blogstar]
Well your assumption doesn’t seem to be holding up. Looks like a case of Elliot Rodgers=Garbage in Garbage out.[/quote]

Elliot’s parents seem caring parents who did what they thought best. They followed his postings online and alerted police.

Could they have done more? Sure, but isn’t that always the case?

Maybe the parents were at times distracted by professional commitments or other events in their lives. Their have their own lives too; and they are not responsible for the actions of their adult son.

The guy had psychological problems and snapped.

Access to guns, the glorification of shooting and killing, the general culture of violence, the celebrity status given to mass shooters enabled and incentivized Elliot Rodgers.

[Author]

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