OT: parenting and the santa barbara shooter

[scaredyclassic]

the only poem i know by heart, as i’ve posted before but it is always good to remember:

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yoursel

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]I have no interest in reading his manifesto or dig deeper…

From what I understand, Elliot Rodger certainly had mental issues.

But didn’t his parents indulge him with brand name luxury products thereby teaching him to value glam over all else? He wanted a glam life with a trophy girlfriend. Couldn’t have it so he hated the world and went crazy.[/quote]

Is that what a BMW teaches? Everyone that drives a BMW values glam over all else?

He did hate the world. But that hate didn’t make him go crazy. He hated the word because he was crazy.[/quote]

it is up to parents to have a PLAN.

my wife was reading an interview with the William’s tennis players’ dad. he had a plan for them to be tennis players at birth!

parents have a DUTY to get their kid out and trained and into the world ina decent way.

for Jews, that duty involves learning torah, and also, strangely, learning to swim.

kids do not naturally make it int he world.

parents need to have a PLAN, and having children without a PLAN is BAD.

[scaredyclassic]

the jewish duty to teach swimming, eexplained beautifully:

LEARNING TO SWIM

….

The Talmud (Kiddushin 29a) enumerates three specific requirements for what parents must teach their children: the Torah, how to make a living, and how to swim. The first two seem obvious, but how to swim? Swimming, literally, is a life-or-death matter. The authors of the Talmud recognized that parents must teach their children how to survive — how to come out on the “swim” end of “sink or swim.” Even if we live far from water, even if we think our children will never accidentally enter a pool area, even if we ourselves hate water, we must ensure that our children have the basic skills necessary to survive.

We must also teach our children how to swim in the virtual sea — how not to be sunk by a cyberbully and how to keep their heads (above water) and maintain their core values when faced with an anonymous blog post. I believe that we have an obligation to teach and to demonstrate to our children appropriate and positive ways to utilize and enjoy technology. Like swimming, we cannot pretend that our kids won’t ever go near a pool.

The ethical challenges of interacting online aren’t based in the technology itself. Technology is simply the tool or medium. Rather, ethical questions emerge within the realm of interpersonal interactions, and because of the nature of the Internet, ethical infractions loom larger than those offline. Our responsibility, as parents, teachers, and caring adults, is to teach and demonstrate how to swim in this new pool through taking responsibility for our words, moderating ourselves, and being cognizant of when we need to take a conversation or situation offline.

Genesis 1:3 teaches that God created the world through the spoken word: “And God said: ‘Let there be light.’ And there was light.” Words have enormous power to create, to beautify, to refine. But this power comes with responsibility. The text could have simply said, “There was light,” but it gave God credit for those words and for all that came after them. Social media platforms provide opportunities to share opinions, often anonymously. That anonymity can be tempting, but we must model taking accountability for our words as well as our actions.

No longer does lashon hara, gossip, travel from one person to another. Today, gossip spreads with the click of a mouse. Young people need to see adults modeling behavior online that demonstrates consideration before posting.

We teach our children to swim but also when to call for a lifeguard; we must also teach our children to recognize when they’re “in over their heads” online. Cyberbullying and inappropriate sharing of personal information and emotional or sensitive conversations all signal that a young person should bring in an adult or move offline. Putting down our smart-phones to talk about our personal lives can demonstrate which situations demand a face-to-face encounter.

There are real, immediate, and challenging temptations and opportunities for our youth when they engage with technology. But as adults, we cannot throw our children into the deep end and expect them to swim. We must model and make explicit how the core ethical issues of interpersonal relationships and our responsibilities as ethical Jews translate into virtual activity. By demonstrating appropriate applications of our values to the current technology, we will provide a solid framework for our young people as they engage with each other through social media platforms.

[scaredyclassic]

i blame his mom and dad for not helping him to become a man…

having a child is too much responsibility. i was crazy when i got involved in this…i will be ashamed and take responsibility if they do anything bad.

[scaredyclassic]

it is very very difficult to become a man today.

[scaredyclassic]

i am going to go out on a limb and claim that if my wife and I raised Elliot Rodger in our goofy homeschooled barefoot hippie 5 tshirts and a pair of jeans and no video games lifestyle and he grew up with me as his dad, , he would not have shot up Isla Vista. he might have other weird quirks, but he would not be this enraged. i think. …. if this sounds braggy, im sorry. but i don’t think I wouldve produced this particular mess…

he wouldve been up all night with his brothers constructing a plumbing system in the yard out of broken plstic watter bottles and straws, sleeping on the roof, reading books with their pa on the porch all day…i think i coulda raised him to be ok…i just dont believe there are bad seeds, i know there are damagesd seeds, but i just dont think he was that bad, that unsalvageable. it hink he was a tender, sensitive soul who lost his way and had no man to hold his hand …

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=FlyerInHi]I have no interest in reading his manifesto or dig deeper…

From what I understand, Elliot Rodger certainly had mental issues.

But didn’t his parents indulge him with brand name luxury products thereby teaching him to value glam over all else? He wanted a glam life with a trophy girlfriend. Couldn’t have it so he hated the world and went crazy.[/quote]

Is that what a BMW teaches? Everyone that drives a BMW values glam over all else?

He did hate the world. But that hate didn’t make him go crazy. He hated the word because he was crazy.[/quote]

he did not hate the world. he was desperate to find a small place int he world. he was unusually ill equipped to understand or make his way into the world. He needed only some small happinesses to have been much much better…

[scaredyclassic]

children are such tender sprouts. they vibrate with emotion and long for acceptance. to know someone is there and fighting for you. so important.

i made some pad thai ina box for my boys who are very large last night. put a big steaming plate of it infront of the 18 year old.

“my pa loves me” he said, reflexively.

elliot couldnt even walk into his da’ds house without getting a big pile of shit from his stepmother. bullshit.

[scaredyclassic]

i cannot believe that any human is born into this world hating this world.

[ocrenter]

Problem solved!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/a-company-has-designed-a-bulletproof-blanket-to-protect-kids?bffbnews&s=mobile

[Jazzman]

Barack Obama on the latest shooting in Oregon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urOupuUKPNI

“The United States does not have a monopoly on crazy people [laughter]… so what’s the difference?” Misplaced laughter, a President struggling to balance his tenor, a forum discussing parental shortcomings. The truth is sometimes like a wall up close; it’s so big we don’t realize it’s obstructing our view.

[NotCranky]

Good stuff, scaredy. I would have at least made him squat 250 with me before putting him on Xanax.

The power imbalance between the father and the first wife was probably enough to teach misogyny or get it off to a good start….that’s just a guess. Lots of old style oedipal stuff in there that needs some attention. He’s hamlet but only more neurotic. What comes first the broken heart or the crazy.

Only love can break a heart and only love can mend it again. Lyrics from some country song.

[livinincali]

[quote=Jazzman]Barack Obama on the latest shooting in Oregon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urOupuUKPNI

“The United States does not have a monopoly on crazy people [laughter]… so what’s the difference?” Misplaced laughter, a President struggling to balance his tenor, a forum discussing parental shortcomings. The truth is sometimes like a wall up close; it’s so big we don’t realize it’s obstructing our view.[/quote]

Well we do prescribe more Psychotropic drugs such as SSRIs to our children than any other country. There’s been studies done on these drugs that have shown side effects of violent, aggressive and suicidal behavior in youths less than 24. The common thread in most of these killings has been the use or recent use of these classes of drugs by the perpetrator. In some cases the guns were obtained legally in others they were obtained illegally. Can you do something to keep guns and weapons out of the hands of people that are on these drugs? I suppose you can but you then run that risk that people that really need to be on these drugs for good reason decide not to be on them.

[joec]

[quote=scaredyclassic]i am going to go out on a limb and claim that if my wife and I raised Elliot Rodger in our goofy homeschooled barefoot hippie 5 tshirts and a pair of jeans and no video games lifestyle and he grew up with me as his dad, , he would not have shot up Isla Vista. he might have other weird quirks, but he would not be this enraged. i think. …. if this sounds braggy, im sorry. but i don’t think I wouldve produced this particular mess…

he wouldve been up all night with his brothers constructing a plumbing system in the yard out of broken plstic watter bottles and straws, sleeping on the roof, reading books with their pa on the porch all day…i think i coulda raised him to be ok…i just dont believe there are bad seeds, i know there are damagesd seeds, but i just dont think he was that bad, that unsalvageable. it hink he was a tender, sensitive soul who lost his way and had no man to hold his hand …[/quote]

I don’t blame his parents, but I do agree that what you state above would probably be true as well that he wouldn’t have shot up people in a different environment…

I think in general, certain lifestyles / professions / etc can cause more drama, feelings of woe, etc…

Like if you are wealthy and know it and all your neighbors/friends are as well, it’s hard to go to the nice private school and not have what a basic classmate has such as cars/tvs/ipads/etc…you may even get made fun of and beat up affecting your mental state.

His dad was in the film/media industry and his mom worked as a nurse I think in that industry as well. Similar to rock stars and people in the media, I think a lot of people in that industry are peacocks (Myers-Briggs term is it?). For these people who are athletes, artists, etc…they need to have some strong desire to be prima-donnas and are overly dramatic with everything. Of course, not everyone will shoot themselves up with drugs/OD/get arrested for DUIs, etc…but my guess (no data) is that there is a larger percentage of people who are in that field (film/rock stars) who get caught up with that stuff..

He grew up seeing what all these top actors/actresses were like and gets to meet them and stuff and thinks this is normal…

Like if you worked/lived in Silicon Valley, they are living in their own income/life bubble as well compared to the normal person outside of the tech boom life.

In a way, having wealth, privilege is it’s own curse as some people would probably agree since when you know you don’t have to make anything of yourself, it’s tough to get motivated when you’re forever taken care of.

[NotCranky]

[quote=Jazzman]Barack Obama on the latest shooting in Oregon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urOupuUKPNI

“The United States does not have a monopoly on crazy people [laughter]… so what’s the difference?” Misplaced laughter, a President struggling to balance his tenor, a forum discussing parental shortcomings. The truth is sometimes like a wall up close; it’s so big we don’t realize it’s obstructing our view.[/quote]

For decades I have wondered how our capricious attitudes about killing or helping people for the sake of “our interests”
and the phony politics around it would play out in valuing life domestically. Specifically how does it affect youth. This guy was exposed to the worst of it the justifications when he was that tender sprout scaredy mentioned. Death of of other was basically mocked in the mainstream for years. Add that to the love of violence in entertainment and toys. Filters could easily get broken.

What ever the answer to Mr. Obama’s question is ….I don’t think he is anything but capricious about dealing with it. Effectively capricious that is. Some many conflicting interests that everything effectively gets treated like a joke.

Treating the nurturing of children and killing people like they are joking matters is not good.

[Author]

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