One Paseo Vote

[spdrun]

It’s not terribly complicated. Run a walking path between cul-de-sacs, along property lines. Big enough for bicycles and pedestrians, not big enough for cars.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=spdrun]It’s not terribly complicated. Run a walking path between cul-de-sacs, along property lines. Big enough for bicycles and pedestrians, not big enough for cars.[/quote]
Probably more complicated than you might think, anyway they were very nice, your kids could walk/bike to school and never walk on a busy street, or even go to the local convenience market where there also existed a few restaurants etc… for the adults.

They were Windy trails with lots of shade trees and benches for resting etc…, it still exists in that one first tract, it is very nice.

But it does eat a lot of land.

The original Idea was that all of Valencia was going to be networks of these “paseos” LOL, anyway I guess they were too expensive to continue to build like that.

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun]It’s not terribly complicated. Run a walking path between cul-de-sacs, along property lines. Big enough for bicycles and pedestrians, not big enough for cars.[/quote]

This is already true in Carmel Valley. Here’s one place: http://bit.ly/1L4zIkS

[Essbee]

And here’s another in Carmel Valley. Very easy for the kids on these cul de sacs to walk to school.

google maps link

[The-Shoveler]

I don’t know that tract in CV, but it looks like that’s probably an order of magnitude smaller than what they built in Valencia,
Plus they went to the elementary as well as junior and high schools as well as shopping etc…

Then again maybe that’s why it kind of died out up there, maybe these things just work better at smaller scale.

Maybe it get’s too complex and eats more and more land the bigger it gets.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]So the logical extension of your idea is to replace parts of San Diego with Kowloon walled cities? 🙂

I see no problem with encouraging Eastern-type “sprawl” where you have smaller individual houses (not McHouses) on a true network of streets, often with businesses and business centers mixed in. It’s the network aspect, as opposed to having only a few entrances from major roads, that does wonders for walkability and biking.[/quote]

Funny you should mention Kowloon. Hong kong is now one in the richest cities, most exiting world class cities, notwithsanding the history. I remember reading about the walled city in NYTimes. Similar history in NY and Chicago and Paris at different times.

Planning a city is about bold vision, not about protecting the quiet lives of some residents who don’t want change.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=spdrun]So the logical extension of your idea is to replace parts of San Diego with Kowloon walled cities? 🙂

I see no problem with encouraging Eastern-type “sprawl” where you have smaller individual houses (not McHouses) on a true network of streets, often with businesses and business centers mixed in. It’s the network aspect, as opposed to having only a few entrances from major roads, that does wonders for walkability and biking.[/quote]

Funny you should mention Kowloon. Hong kong is now one in the richest cities, most exiting world class cities, notwithsanding the history. I remember reading about the walled city in NYTimes. Similar history in NY and Chicago and Paris at different times.

Planning a city is about bold vision, not about protecting the quiet lives of some residents who don’t want change.[/quote]

Are you saying that Chicago was a walled city . . .? Only Fort Dearborn, perhaps at one time, and at that time it certainly wasn’t world class – just an outpost in a swamp. NY had a wall where Wall St. is, and by some accounts it was intended as a defense against the native americans. And, by the way, planning a city is NOT about bold vision. It is about being meticulous, reasonable and practical and the peaceful lives of the residents is an enormous factor (have you seen the movie “Up”?). Zandra Rhodes, who i love, is a designer with bold vision (and pink hair) – not an urban planner.

[FlyerInHi]

When they build downtown Manhattan lots of people hated it. Then 9/11 happened and everybody loved the twin towers. I don’t particular care for lower Manhattan. But it was bold vision to build office space for large corporations inside Manhattan. That probably led to the renewal of NYC with the financial industry beginning in the 1990s.

One Paseo will add to Carmel Valley in terms of desirability and value.

Lots of people didn’t want to see Carmel Valley, then North City West to be built to begin with. But Carmel Valley has been a sucess in providing housing for professionals working in the golden triangle. And it’s added to the city’s tax base.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]If you think about it, Silicon Valley is pretty darn suburban, other than San Francisco itself. And it’s been the center of innovation for the past 40 years or so.

Don’t get me wrong: I like dense cities. But I don’t see Manhattan (or even Boston) style density as a pre-requisite to innovation.[/quote]

That’s a very good observation. But Silicon Valley is densifying. Much of the housing stock in Silicon Valley is older and in worse condition than San Diego, so people pay a lot of money to live in inferior spaces. If anything people are illegally doubling up in single family houses (like they do in NYC apartments).

Silicon Valley is an agglomeration of cities so they may not have the leadership coordination to get things done as fast as we can.

In San Diego, if we get our act together, we can provide our citizens with much superior living space, at lower costs, while building the infrastructure that will attract employment.

I don’t see that San Diego would ever be like NYC or Boston. But San Diego becoming connected villages drawing from densities like Metro DC, Burbank, Glendale, parts of Irvine, LA.. is very doable.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]
I’d sooner live somewhere like North Park, Golden Hill, the beach cities, or even SESD, all of which grew organically versus being built by the same Stepford developer.[/quote]

Those neighborhoods are fine and interesting if you fully remodel a house/condo that you buy. But that’s not for everyone; and not everyone has the budget.

The older units in those neighborhoods are “icky”. I wouldn’t want to rent and come home to a disgusting 40 yo kitchen w/ greasy cabinets, vinyl flooring, nasty carpet, old bathrooms, etc…

I’m sorry, but often times those stepford developer “resort apartments” are better alternatives.

[spdrun]

The kitchen/bathroom issues that you’re talking about are under $5 grand to fix.

[carli]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Planning a city is about bold vision, not about protecting the quiet lives of some residents who don’t want change.[/quote]

So are you saying you view the current One Paseo as a bold vision? It’s far from it. It qualifies as change but not a bold vision. We only get one chance to impact whatever change happens on this huge chunk of land, but instead are you saying we should just let the developer do what he wants? Simply because it’s a change, and, hey, none of us wants to be the one standing in the way of change?

It’s an easy slam on residents to say they want to protect their quiet (upscale) lives and they don’t want change. The truth is that what many are focused on is helping shape that change. Although I don’t live in CV, I live nearby and feel a responsibility to weigh in on what that change will look like and feel like to live in, plus what impact it will have on our already stressed environment. We know this is what will serve upcoming generations best, not just building however much housing/retail the developer can sell.

So Flyer In HI, where do you weigh in on this version of One Paseo? Sounds like you’d tell the developer to just go for it, it’s okay to ignore the current zoning laws and build what he wants to maximize profits. If I’ve got you wrong, then what are your ideas? Please get involved, review the actual proposal and its impact and provide a few thoughtful suggestions about what you do or don’t want it to look like.

Most of us want more housing, and we see a great opportunity for a village type concept there, with some nice retail and work space, but how much, how high should the buildings be, how densely packed, how much traffic should it generate, what will accessibility be like for public transit, bikes, walkability, etc, and what will the impact on our environment be?

Or does none of that matter?

And P.S. I spent a 20-yr career in midtown Manhattan and lived in that area the vast majority of my life so I appreciate the comparisons but feel they’re irrelevant to our area. And NYC bounced back in the 90’s mainly thanks to the compassion/collaboration of Mayors Koch, Dinkens, followed by the hard nosed but welcome Giuliani who brought public safety back to the city. Without this, companies never would have come back. It wasn’t because they were allowed to build skyscrapers, first it was because it was a city in which they and their workers wanted to be. That’s the boldness of a vision – helping shape a sense of place first, not just saying, sure, go ahead and build stuff.

[FlyerInHi]

Carli, population in San Diego growing. We need to build housing/shopping.

Fundamentally, we differ. I say that One Paseo is not dense enough. I won’t get my wish, but I would prefer Mission Valley type density and large condo/apartments complexes mixed with 20 story buildings, all along the 56 corridor over sprawl to other parts of San Diego.

It’s perfectly OK for the city council to approve a variance to the zoning for the area. They grant variances that all the time.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]The kitchen/bathroom issues that you’re talking about are under $5 grand to fix.[/quote]

$5,000 for an Ikea kitchen, including appliances if you do the demo and install yourself. For the price you might be able to get granite counter tops (usually about $1000 for an apartment size kitchen).

If you change electrical, plumbing, get permits, etc… the price goes up.

To remodel a 2/2 condo you’re looking at closer to $15k – $20k, for kitchen and baths, depending on how much you DIY. Plus add flooring at a minimum of $5/sf for material and install.

If you hire a contractor, $20k for a regular kitchen is standard.

Most people don’t DIY, and don’t have money lying around. And if they do, they would rather put it on a downpayment on a move-up already done. That’s just the way it is.

I’m doing a remodel now. I’m changing a U-shaped kitchen to an open L-shaped kitchen w/ island. I’ll post pics if I have time.

BTW, Ikea has a new line of kitchens that just came out.

[carli]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I won’t get my wish, but I would prefer Mission Valley type density and large condo/apartments complexes mixed with 20 story buildings, all along the 56 corridor over sprawl to other parts of San Diego.
[/quote]

Fair enough. I’m all for you wanting whatever you want. Doesn’t mean it will work to cram that many people in an area without decent ways to transport them in and out.

And it’s apples to oranges in the transit department – Mission Valley has several trolley lines, buses and 4 major freeways feeding into it, whereas Carmel Valley has zero public transit and two freeways, if you can even call the 2-lane 56 a freeway.

But here’s a visual – on the SD Transit System map, you’ll see a web of colorful squiggly lines all over Mission Valley and if you scroll down to the north county map, you’ll see absolutely none, just a vast blank space in Carmel Valley: http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/documents/rtm-oct-2014.pdf

Once there’s a decent plan for public transit in the area, denser housing should be supported, but until then, we’re creating more way problems than we’re solving.

[Author]

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