The dire climate of CA public university admissions for freshmen

[mixxalot]

Thank god I graduated 25 years ago from UCD when it was cheap and easier to get admitted.

[flyer]

I think most of us would agree that getting our college degrees seemed relatively easier vs. today, and buying up property when we started 20+ years ago was also much less competitive–but the world has changed–more
people–fewer resources.

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=joec]
College is the “safe” way for economic stability, but then, only “some” majors are safe for employment.[/quote]

For sure. That’s why I say that creativity is oversold. The right marketable majors are what society and the makets want. That’s playing by the rules and having a good, safe standard of living. Who cares if it’s rote learning or a true calling. It’s playing by the rules.

Since the 80s people like NSR have said creativity this, that…. My kid is going to enjoy himself, play football and create.

Decades later, who is living in neighborhoods such as Carmel Valley, Irvine….? More often than not, they are STEM majors. The salesman who studied sociology and did well is rare. And even then, I doubt salesmanship is his true calling.

.[/quote]

ARRGGGGG. For the last time – Henry Ford was creative. The Wright Brothers were creative. Edison was creative. Science, approached properly, is a creative pursuit. The problem is that the more small minded among us do not believe it to be so. Frankly, I’ve known more creative scientists than I’ve known truly creative people who call themselves creative.

One place we have our eye on is the College for Creative Studies at UCSB (note the name): https://www.ccs.ucsb.edu

If you look, you can pursue Biology, Chemistry and Physics (while rubbing shoulders with creative people who are studying writing and art). So STEM majors are creative. In fact, computing had it’s start with technology developed for a loom – a very creative step to apply loom concepts to automated computing/

The problem is that “creativity” has become shorthand (in some people’s minds) for not being accountable for anything. What it means is producing something that hasn’t been done or produced before.

[NotCranky]

^^^ good post. Take Spock, not creative and Kirk, creative, both knew a lot of science, but WTF was captain? Case closed.

[FlyerInHi]

Very good point njtosd. And if parents were more like you, we’d have so many more scientists.

My comment was in the context of a previous comment that a child can avoid academic competition by being creative. Certainly not if that child is to grow up and be creative in STEM.

The brightest people will be creative and invent new things. But, creative or not, there’s nothing wrong with following the rules set by society and competing to get a job that is in high demand and well paid.

Blogstar, there can be only one captain. Doesn’t matter how he got there, but there’s only one. And it’s harder than in the past to be the captain. There is more transparency now, and people will examine the captain’s records and ask questions. Like “how the hell did he get there? He has a shit academic record from a shit school” Pretty soon he’ll get fired unless he owns the enterprise.

[no_such_reality]

You’ve described a perfect plan to be a wage slave slogger.

Yes, unfortunately the world is full of small minded people that insist they need an elite intern from a psuedo-Ivy. I had a former CEO who had to salve his ego with one from Stanford. She was young and pretty. Smart too. And of course, one of my organizational reports two levels down with just an AA had to keep fixing her reports…

There’s great irony in knowing the same CEO rejected the AA’s plan and then approved the plan when the intern presented it.

That whole learning versus reality thing. I also know Berkeley grad school STEM people too. Smart, creative and work like a beasts.

I also know people from CalTech, MIT, UCLA undergrad and grad programs.

20 years ago very different than today. Still plenty of super bright super creative people and plenty sloggers.

I also know plenty of people from Podunk U work side by side with them.

And at the point someone is CEO, if the company and shareholders are still looking at his college school and grades, they’re just screwed up.

[FlyerInHi]

Why is the AA several levels down?

Famous brands have more value. Get used to it. (Maybe that’s unfortunate, but such is life).

Why the aversion to studying hard, getting good grades and getting into a top school? That’s playing by the rules. And yes, slogging is playing by the rules. That’s better than bootstrapping and kissing ass to the right people, which is slogging too.

All the more power to people who can write their own tickets because of outstanding creativity. But what are the chances?

[no_such_reality]

The plan you’re promoting is the equivalent of a commuting plan that says I’m going to drive through the valley and west side of LA at rush hour and out compete the car next to me to merge in front of them. It’ll work but it’s the educational equivalent of planning to live way out in the burgs and slog the commute daily. My plan is to helpy kid figure out how not to have to live on the 101.

Kids today do not have the luxury that I did, Study a reasonable amount get good grades, play three sports, etc. today. They’re forced to specialize early and grind many hours to stay competitive. some kids are inclined to it, some are academically gifted, most are simply slogging massive hours

Is the marginal trade off worth it?

As for the AA, that would be couple layers “down” as in Sr. Tech reporting to a manager who reported to me.

It’s the same as the credential problem that is plaguing tech at the moment. There is an increased reliance on creds because incompetent managers can’t figure out if they know it and competent managers need to sort through the Bs and give the recruiter a short cut

[bobby]

[quote=njtosd]

ARRGGGGG. For the last time – Henry Ford was creative. The Wright Brothers were creative. Edison was creative. Science, approached properly, is a creative pursuit. The problem is that the more small minded among us do not believe it to be so. Frankly, I’ve known more creative scientists than I’ve known truly creative people who call themselves creative.

One place we have our eye on is the College for Creative Studies at UCSB (note the name): https://www.ccs.ucsb.edu

If you look, you can pursue Biology, Chemistry and Physics (while rubbing shoulders with creative people who are studying writing and art). So STEM majors are creative. In fact, computing had it’s start with technology developed for a loom – a very creative step to apply loom concepts to automated computing/

The problem is that “creativity” has become shorthand (in some people’s minds) for not being accountable for anything. What it means is producing something that hasn’t been done or produced before.[/quote]

yes. creativity is important. more so than rote memorization of formulas.
I think most people going into “creative majors” means that they want to have fun in such thing as French renaissance poetry. sure, it’s creative but it has little use in the real world.
being creative doesn’t mean not productive but that’s the euphemism for that word nowadays.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl][quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]I vote that CA re-institute the writing portion on the SAT, ACT and TOEFL and apply the applicant’s essay/writing score to their composite score.

This is how it was done when I took the ACT … way back in the day.

This would most certainly weed out thousands of Chinese applicants, who would fail this portion miserably, causing their composite scores to plummet.

Too bad … so sad.[/quote]
LoL, in your dreams.[/quote]

So, AN, are you saying here that you don’t think the essay portion of the SAT/ACT will ever be brought back into consideration for admission into the UC/CSU?[/quote]I’m saying that Asian dominated the UC admittance as soon as they remove Affirmative Action, even with essay. If they bring back essay, Asian will still dominate the admittance %. You don’t have to look any further than at the HS level. Which group score the highest in standardize testing, have the highest GPA, etc.[/quote]

I think the Jews still dominate, percentagewise related to their pop. Share. But I could be wrong. Probably because Facebook and both Google founders are jews, they’re hoping for the next big donors?

[scaredyclassic]

Retired high-ranking Chinese official asks why Jews are so smart

Even Chinese govt officialso ponder why jews are so smart…

[joec]

Maybe other Asians can chime in, but I think Asians can’t compete in the big game because in terms of community, there is no religion or anything really allowing Asians to bond with each other.

I’ve also heard from other Chinese multi-millionaires saying that the Chinese race doesn’t help each other at all like the Jewish people and generally view each other as greedy .

This is very true IMO and most Asians/Chinese just look out for their own and that’s it. Also, a lot of the wealth is more recent and it’s not old money so there is less enabling options or help for their kids or network/friends. This may change in future generations perhaps.

If you look at a lot of ultra successful people and business types, you usually also see very very smart parents who knew what to advise their kids to do and how to play the game, realistic expectations of society and opportunities out there (flyer, I see has done this).

One of the most successful people in our family has connections to the prez and spouse also is major international head of some relief group or something.

Whenever I talk to her dad, I totally get the sense he “told/forced” her to do the things she did (education/work/connections) to lead to all their success. Without that guidance, I don’t think any “kid” will know where to go or what to do.

Without this mentoring or valuable advice for most of society, you aren’t going to get that far in general (or at least not ultra success I see them having). Apparently, they have so much money now that they don’t know what to do with it all (according to their parents)…

Looking at my own path, very little guidance IMO so much much less success. Mostly had the boring tech job, but that’s about as most of us can get I think (which isn’t bad), but won’t lead to longer term fulfillment and greater success in work/life.

[an]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I think the Jews still dominate, percentagewise related to their pop. Share. But I could be wrong. Probably because Facebook and both Google founders are jews, they’re hoping for the next big donors?[/quote]
I wasn’t talking about % related to their population but % of total admit.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=AN][quote=scaredyclassic]I think the Jews still dominate, percentagewise related to their pop. Share. But I could be wrong. Probably because Facebook and both Google founders are jews, they’re hoping for the next big donors?[/quote]
I wasn’t talking about % related to their population but % of total admit.[/quote]

What will mark zuckerbergs kid count as percentwise, Asian or jew…

[an]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=AN][quote=scaredyclassic]I think the Jews still dominate, percentagewise related to their pop. Share. But I could be wrong. Probably because Facebook and both Google founders are jews, they’re hoping for the next big donors?[/quote]
I wasn’t talking about % related to their population but % of total admit.[/quote]

What will mark zuckerbergs kid count as percentwise, Asian or jew…[/quote]His kid(s) is/are American with Asian and Jewish decent. But does it really matter? I was simply stating that Universities today have a much higher % of American with Asian decent or straight up Asian. A university degree isn’t guarantee of financial success, but on average, you’re more likely to make more than just a HS diploma.

[Author]

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