The dire climate of CA public university admissions for freshmen

[flyer]

Fortunately for all of the people in the world who are ill, there are doctors, most of whom could have easily gone into other professions (and most of whom also have other business interests–investment properties, franchises, etc.) to help them.

Here’s an exceptional one we happen to know of, and there are many more. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/sep/21/ferdowsmakan-rady-surgeon/. .

Edit:
+as FIH mentioned, marry well.

[FlyerInHi]

I know scaredy said that law school is a bad investment. But seems like there are plenty of slots for smart kids. Why not a law career?

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I know scaredy said that law school is a bad investment. But seems like there are plenty of slots for smart kids. Why not a law career?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/business/dealbook/minnesota-law-school-facing-waning-interest-cuts-admissions.html%5B/quote%5D

There’s slots. But the smart kids are not applying.

[La Jolla Renter]

Students and tax payers spend way too much on a sub par university system.

Education and knowledge is a cheap commodity and it’s all available online. Students in California are paying way to much to listen to shitty professors give shitty lectures. Maybe 10% are really good. In 10 years, colleges are going to look a whole lot different. The current system is unsustainable. In 10 years you will probably be able to get an ivy league caliber accredited education for $10k.

I have 14 years before my kid hits college, so hopefully I’m right.

fyi, I graduated with a physics degree, played around a couple of years, then bought a small business. 20 plus years later, still have it. I guess I learned in my summer jobs that I don’t like being bossed around.

Sadly, I have employees working for me that have 60k in student debt and are still just making 30k a year 4 years out of school. They got ripped off by their college.

[njtosd]

[quote=flu][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=harvey]How many servings of shaved ice does one have to sell in a year in order to make, say, $100K?[/quote]

And at one point, before obamacare, he likely did without health insurance. Could have gotten sick.

Owning a business is tough. Rubio the fish taco guy and Oscar the chicken guy are not doing so well.[/quote]

Well apparently, he’s probably doing better than most doctors are. After all, he did end up getting married so I heard, lol.[/quote]

My former boss (who didn’t say much that I found inspiring) did say one thing that has stuck with me: “If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t sell my time, because there are only so many hours in a day.” (In the case of attorneys, the number of hours in a day is 36.). Seriously, though, you can make more money in a day selling widgets than you can practicing Antitrust Law. So if you’re in it for the money – make sure you’re maximizing you potential profits.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=njtosd]
My former boss (who didn’t say much that I found inspiring) did say one thing that has stuck with me: “If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t sell my time, because there are only so many hours in a day.” (In the case of attorneys, the number of hours in a day is 36.). Seriously, though, you can make more money in a day selling widgets than you can practicing Antitrust Law. So if you’re in it for the money – make sure you’re maximizing you potential profits.[/quote]

True. But statistically, how many businesses selling widgets become successful?

When you have an education and can sell your time for more than other people, you have a baseline to fall back on. Sell widgets if you want, but it should’t be the only plan.

I would say that the lack of health insurance has prevented many folks for starting small businesses. It usually takes money to make money. Creativity without resources is kinda useless. Rich kids can pursue their dreams using family resources. Middle class and poor kids should get an education first. Pursuing dreams is possible, just harder for the latter.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=carli]BG, when you wrote, “I can clearly see here you’re looking for a ‘scapegoat’ because you all fear your own kids might not be admitted to UC one day,” it made me chuckle. Too late for scapegoats and fear. I’ve already got one kid there. He’s at UCLA, but not for long. He’ll graduate June 10th after making it through in 4 years (woot woot).

And I don’t have fear that my other kids won’t go to UCs. I have a fair degree of confidence each kid will find his/her way regardless of which school they graduate from (or maybe don’t graduate from)!

You are parroting a tired old stereotype of the uber-driven tiger mom who is pushing her kids in to a UC or the most competitive college they can get into. Sure, they’re out there, but most parents I know these days are doing their best to avoid (or at least minimize) the stress fest that is the college admissions process.[/quote]Congrats to your kid, carli, and I mean that sincerely. Your kid had to be savvy and on top of things (as well as have a good GPA) to be able to get all their needed classes in a timely manner to graduate in four years from this “flagship” school with the largest student body in the state!

I wasn’t really referring to “tiger parents” per se, but so many on this board who, in the past, posted here that they were essentially prostrating themselves for their kids in the name of eventual admission to a top university. A good example of this is paying $200K++ more for a home (which they could have gotten for $200K++ LESS elsewhere) which is located in a particular public school attendance area. Also, over-scheduling a young kid and paying for numerous private “enrichment” programs (to compete with Asian foreign university applicants?) Whatever happened to swinging on an old tire hung from their big backyard tree after their homework was done?? (Oh, I forgot, these parents are living in homes with postage-stamp lots with no trees … by choice :=0)

In my mind, all of this furious pre-planning of your kid’s life is for naught, for all the reasons outlined in the state auditor’s report re: UC (admitting non-residents with lower admission criteria than they expect of in-state residents in order to get their tuition premium) and the fact that at least half the CSU campuses (located in urban areas) actually honor their commitments they made to local school districts to ease up a little on their preferred admission criteria (admit a HS graduate with a 3.1 GPA instead of the 3.6 GPA they would prefer to admit). This is done so these students who grew up within a ~38 mile radius of the campus have the opportunity to commute from their family homes to classes instead of lease pricey on-campus or off-campus housing. As it stands, the traffic is so bad in LA County that many of these freshmen who grew up 15+ miles from campus end up staying on campus their first year, anyway, and renting nearby off-campus housing after that.

The biggest complaint today about college being inaccessible to the masses, IMO, is that it is too expensive. If you take the room and board expense out of that equation, it becomes exponentially more affordable to many, many more families.

CA needs to endeavor to do that for its resident students … to place them a top admission priority. Whatever slots are leftover after qualified residents accept their admission offers could be offered to non-residents. This is how it is in other states (many of whom only have 1-3 public university campuses) and this is how it should be in highly populous CA with a multitude of its public university campuses located in highly desirable areas.

A HS senior from Indiana with a family that has enough $$ to send them to an OOS university isn’t going to choose to apply as a freshman to campuses in Merced, Fresno, Chico or Bakersfield. What’s the point? They have plenty of schools to choose from in their home state. They’re going to apply to coveted UCSB, UCI, UCLA, CSULB, UCSD and SDSU for very obvious reasons to us all. Hence, SDSU’s 80-90K freshman apps they now receive by the end of every single November. The deserving and qualified HS graduate who grew up 0-15 miles from SDSU (and who may have been “promised” admission by them in writing) is turned down for admission while SDSU admits non-resident students in droves. It’s not the fault of SD local freshman applicants that a kid from MO wants to apply to their local university and expects to get accepted by virtue of the higher tuition they will pay. If these flyover-country applicants were so dead-set on attending university near a CA beach, then their parents should have thought about that when their kid was in 7th grade and moved here and got situated so their kid could be a “resident” and “local-area applicant.” Of course, they didn’t. They kept their $680 mo PITI on their $110K home and saved up for college, instead, while the parents in SD County made great and even onerous sacrifices to raise their kids in coastal CA, most paying $4K and up annual property taxes or now exorbitant rent as well feeding the bloodsucking FTB beast.

I will not apologize for my opinion that CA public university systems owe non-resident freshman and junior applicants nothing. Eff ’em as far a I am concerned. If they want to go to college OOS/OOC, they have many choices to apply for admission in states which don’t have enough qualified resident population to fill their public colleges and universities. CA is well past overflowing with qualified resident applicants for theirs, thank you.

[Coronita]

Whatever BG. If you say so. I don’t know what you wrote. It wasnt worth my time to read and pick apart any more than it was worth to write this, as i am sure there would be lots to pick apart.

I’ve already made up my opinion that you certainly fit the Trump crowd. Have a nice life.

[flyer]

Also, to parents who are excited about their kids graduating from
college–many congratulations–but, as a parent who has been there, done that, be aware that, even though the hiring forecast has greatly improved, the competition out there is still fierce, and, although many of our kids will be very fortunate to land the careers they want in a location they would like to live–far more will not–so there may still be even greater challenges than education ahead for many grads.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flyer]Also, to parents who are excited about their kids graduating from
college–many congratulations–but, as a parent who has been there, done that, be aware that, even though the hiring forecast has greatly improved, the competition out there is still fierce, and, although many of our kids will be very fortunate to land the careers they want in a location they would like to live–far more will not–so there may still be even greater challenges than education ahead for many grads.[/quote]Agree, flyer. I’m glad my kids are willing to live wherever they need to in order to have a reasonable commute to work everyday. I’ve got one kid now who is considering transferring from SF to LA with their company. My kids aren’t averse to living close to work to avoid a horrendous commute and if that means Carson, Baldwin Park or armpit Fullerton, so be it. My kids are also “experts” at “working the system” they set up for themselves. They’ve never had a problem getting a job or keeping a job in CA in their fields.

It seems you’ve still got a few college grads in your “sphere” who have returned “home” after graduation who are less than enchanted with where they’ll have to work and live in CA if they actually take real 8-5 job their field so they’re still “stuck” in their old bdrm in their parents’ spacious, well, appointed home in the covenant at the age of 22-30, lol …. You only have to look to their parents for your answer as to why their “kids” are still hanging around Mom and/or Dad at this late date :=0

[joec]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=njtosd]
My former boss (who didn’t say much that I found inspiring) did say one thing that has stuck with me: “If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t sell my time, because there are only so many hours in a day.” (In the case of attorneys, the number of hours in a day is 36.). Seriously, though, you can make more money in a day selling widgets than you can practicing Antitrust Law. So if you’re in it for the money – make sure you’re maximizing you potential profits.[/quote]

True. But statistically, how many businesses selling widgets become successful?

When you have an education and can sell your time for more than other people, you have a baseline to fall back on. Sell widgets if you want, but it should’t be the only plan.

I would say that the lack of health insurance has prevented many folks for starting small businesses. It usually takes money to make money. Creativity without resources is kinda useless. Rich kids can pursue their dreams using family resources. Middle class and poor kids should get an education first. Pursuing dreams is possible, just harder for the latter.[/quote]

I agree with this. Sure, many people can start from the streets and if they make it big, they start telling people that a college degree isn’t worth it, this that, etc etc etc…

Sorta like the lame comments coming from Sheryl Sandberg saying Harvard isn’t useful as a degree even though I think she met Larry Summers there who helped her with connections/network, etc etc etc…

I think most people have an over exaggeration of how great they are at their work/wealth/success and it has actually more to do with being born in the right family/resources/right place right time. All IMO of course. Heck, my family wasn’t wealthy enough growing up to go to any private schools.

It’s true that a few people will always make it successfully with no education (simple law of numbers), but the numbers are probably stacked against you and you would have to generally beat the odds. Like yourself and flu’s friend who did the shaved ice thing, I’m sure you can count on both hands many other people who failed in their business/passion, you name it. There are ton more failures there overall than successes.

Sometimes, it’s also luck of the draw, right place right time. I’m sure all the people who started solar did VERY well the last 10 years. I know mortgage brokers/owners who are multi-millionaires as well since they landed in that industry and rode it high up and owned the business.

I also have friends who made millions in the tech boom and are retired already at about 40. Startup got acquired, instant millionaires.

Skill/luck/passion? Your passion can only carry you so far IMO.

The whole point of college in the past was you can get a stable/boring job that if you can keep that job, would at least not lead you to poverty (which most people are having a tough time finding that job now).

These days, I don’t think that’s as possible with a lot of majors since most don’t lead directly to employment.

You see and read articles/shows and plenty of execs would say they graduated with (insert worthless degree here) and if they were doing that now, would have a very hard time finding work without connections.

College is the “safe” way for economic stability, but then, only “some” majors are safe for employment.

[flyer]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=flyer]Also, to parents who are excited about their kids graduating from
college–many congratulations–but, as a parent who has been there, done that, be aware that, even though the hiring forecast has greatly improved, the competition out there is still fierce, and, although many of our kids will be very fortunate to land the careers they want in a location they would like to live–far more will not–so there may still be even greater challenges than education ahead for many grads.[/quote]Agree, flyer. I’m glad my kids are willing to live wherever they need to in order to have a reasonable commute to work everyday. I’ve got one kid now who is considering transferring from SF to LA with their company. My kids aren’t averse to living close to work to avoid a horrendous commute and if that means Carson, Baldwin Park or armpit Fullerton, so be it. My kids are also “experts” at “working the system” they set up for themselves. They’ve never had a problem getting a job or keeping a job in CA in their fields.

It seems you’ve still got a few college grads in your “sphere” who have returned “home” after graduation who are less than enchanted with where they’ll have to work and live in CA if they actually take real 8-5 job their field so they’re still “stuck” in their old bdrm in their parents’ spacious, well, appointed home in the covenant at the age of 22-30, lol …. You only have to look to their parents for your answer as to why their “kids” are still hanging around Mom and/or Dad at this late date :=0[/quote]

Although our kids are out with careers and homes, as are yours, we do know many in many “spheres,” not just in RSF, who, somehow, didn’t get the memo that after you finish school, you need to find something to do with your life.

The biggest trend we see, is that kids who don’t get exactly what they want in the way of a career and lifestyle after college–as parents and educators have promised them they would–don’t have a Plan B, C, D or E.

As joe said, very few hit it big, as they’ve been conditioned to believe, and then they don’t know how to cope with reality. Sad for them, and sad for their parents.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=joec]
College is the “safe” way for economic stability, but then, only “some” majors are safe for employment.[/quote]

For sure. That’s why I say that creativity is oversold. The right marketable majors are what society and the makets want. That’s playing by the rules and having a good, safe standard of living. Who cares if it’s rote learning or a true calling. It’s playing by the rules.

Since the 80s people like NSR have said creativity this, that…. My kid is going to enjoy himself, play football and create.

Decades later, who is living in neighborhoods such as Carmel Valley, Irvine….? More often than not, they are STEM majors. The salesman who studied sociology and did well is rare. And even then, I doubt salesmanship is his true calling.

I’m all for doing what you love, but be realistic in the context of the marketplace we live in, especially if the family resources are limited.

Joec, your example of sandberg saying that harvard was not useful is lame . But it feeds into the American bootstrapping myth. Stories are better when they are about individual creativity and initiative. Ordinary people eat it up and point to those stories as potential for future success.

My cousin talked to me about starting his music promotion business for years. I told him payoff your house, build savings, make sure you can provide for your family. The wife is rich and owns many properties, so take advantage of the resources but never ask your wife for money. Pursue your dreams, but plan well and have a backup. He might make it, but it will not be on creativity and bootstrapping. It will be because of resources available to him.

[carli]

I didn’t mean to sound smug about my kid graduating from UCLA. I know firsthand it is surely no guarantee for success, nor is a degree from any other institution. After changing majors twice, he is graduating with a degree in Sociology, which will obviously not be a ticket to financial success, and he does not have a job lined up, but hopes to enter the Peace Corps or work for an NGO overseas.

Thankfully, he will not be coming home (I say thankfully because although we love each other dearly, it wouldn’t be fun for either of us…I’m counting on us becoming “friends” later but for now, my husband and I are in tough love mode w/him as he needs a little kick in the pants).

He went to UCLA because he got an amazing scholarship (not needs-based) and frankly, they made it almost impossible to say no, but was it the “perfect fit” for him? No. He would have preferred (and probably belonged at) a smaller, east coast liberal arts college, and he got accepted at several great ones, but we could not justify the $200,000+ cost differential for a 4-yr degree there vs. UCLA.

And don’t get me wrong – we’re hugely appreciative to UCLA (and CA taxpayers) for the scholarship and feel they provide an outstanding education and amazing resources, especially for the student who is willing/motivated to seek out ways to take advantage of all they offer and to carve out a niche for themselves, socially and academically. But it is a HUGE place, and it’s easy for undergrads to get lost and stay lost. The 200+ student lecture halls and massive student body (many of whom seemed to already have a purpose and a drive for a certain career when they arrived) were not what our son envisioned for his college experience. We hoped he would take more initiative, but he never seemed to gain a lot of traction. But he did fine, he is graduating, and I believe he’ll look back fondly on his years there.

He will find his way, even (and maybe especially) without our future financial support. Sure, we’ll help him out a little bit, but he’s got a couple thousand dollars saved up from summer jobs, is graduating debt-free, and has a place in LA rented with a few friends and will take it from here. As my husband likes to say, “he’s off the payroll.” He’ll work at an on-campus job for the next few months while applying to other jobs and then figure it out. It will all be fine, and I’m confident he will become a self-supporting, content member of society as he grows into adulthood.

One more thought – this “find your passion” BS that we hear so often spouted around graduation time to high school and college graduates makes me crazy. This message needs to be balanced with encouragement to be realistic, understand that there will always be bills to pay and you need to know that life can get awfully stressful if you can’t pay them. The way that graduation speakers leave out the part about being realistic about your financial needs always annoys me because it’s like you’re tricking the kids into thinking all they should focus on is following their sweet passion and everything else will fall into place. So. Not. True. First of all, most kids don’t have a singular “passion” and secondly, even if they do, it may not pay the bills so if they follow it, they’re stuck feeling like they’ve been duped or did something wrong and should have gotten that accounting degree even though they hate math; also not the answer. Instead, I think the message should be that moving forward into the future for most of us is a balancing act and involves a lot of trial and error – sure, don’t pursue something you despise doing (duh!), but also be realistic, kids – you’ll have to pay some dues en route to finding your passion, and sometimes that means taking a job for awhile that feels like drudgery but will lead to something else. Have a good attitude, give it your best shot, shaping/molding your own future as you go and it will work out, leading you to better things, maybe even finding your passion.

[flyer]

Regardless of what path a person pursues in life, imo, everyone (kids included) needs to be honest with themselves about their own financial reality and plan accordingly–even as they continue to pursue higher goals.

Our society doesn’t encourage this–and the “R” word is a tough sell–especially where kids are concerned, and many aren’t aware that they may not get everything they want in the real world.

Many people are in a position to find/enjoy what they consider to be their passions in life and support themselves and their families, but, imo, that’s where each individual and family have to determine what’s realistic for them.

[Author]

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