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paramount.
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August 6, 2009 at 7:09 PM #442542August 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM #441781
RichardJamesEsquire
Participant“NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime.”
There are many ways to break up shifts. The ones firefighters push for in effect do guarantee overtime.
“Cities have done numerous studies that show it’s actually cheaper to have O/T employees than it would be to hire additional “stand-by” staff to cover the shifts.”
Why? because of the benefits package? The private sector has found more part time employees cost less (as Unfortunate as that is for the employee). Are you saying the real problem is government employees retiring after only 20 years for a large percentage of their pay? What about quality, how many captains are we losing that will be exchanged for recruits because we chose to pay them overtime instead of new hires?
“They are paid to sleep, only because they need to respond to calls 24 hours a day.”
and the police don’t?
“If you think having your sleep interrupted every hour or two (or not getting any sleep at all)”
Are you are saying our live savers are sleep deprived on a regular basis, choosing longer shifts, more overtime, and longer periods of time off over safety?
“If they only worked 8-10 hours, how does that work when they are required to work for a week or more during wildfire season?”
Simple, work a week or more during wildfire season. They were already on OT anyways on the second day, maybe even the first depending on when their shift started.
What do you do with less firefighters getting a lot of overtime when wildfire season comes around? Do you try to put out the fires 1.5x faster?
“and fewer problems with people calling in for sick”
If someone is sick they should not be at work. Are you saying firefighters would call in sick that are not. The private sector solves that by getting rid of people who are unreliable and replacing sick days with floating holidays which can be scheduled.
Finding a replacement for someone who won’t work their shift becomes much easier with a larger staff of people working less hours. It’s amazing how available people become when they’re not getting their hours in. Perhaps not as cohesive or effective a crew but the job will get done.
” You have NO IDEA what it takes to operate these departments.”
very true, but I do recognize a dead end road when I get close enough to the end of it.
We’d all love better protection but there are financial realities to face.
August 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM #441978Participant“NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime.”
There are many ways to break up shifts. The ones firefighters push for in effect do guarantee overtime.
“Cities have done numerous studies that show it’s actually cheaper to have O/T employees than it would be to hire additional “stand-by” staff to cover the shifts.”
Why? because of the benefits package? The private sector has found more part time employees cost less (as Unfortunate as that is for the employee). Are you saying the real problem is government employees retiring after only 20 years for a large percentage of their pay? What about quality, how many captains are we losing that will be exchanged for recruits because we chose to pay them overtime instead of new hires?
“They are paid to sleep, only because they need to respond to calls 24 hours a day.”
and the police don’t?
“If you think having your sleep interrupted every hour or two (or not getting any sleep at all)”
Are you are saying our live savers are sleep deprived on a regular basis, choosing longer shifts, more overtime, and longer periods of time off over safety?
“If they only worked 8-10 hours, how does that work when they are required to work for a week or more during wildfire season?”
Simple, work a week or more during wildfire season. They were already on OT anyways on the second day, maybe even the first depending on when their shift started.
What do you do with less firefighters getting a lot of overtime when wildfire season comes around? Do you try to put out the fires 1.5x faster?
“and fewer problems with people calling in for sick”
If someone is sick they should not be at work. Are you saying firefighters would call in sick that are not. The private sector solves that by getting rid of people who are unreliable and replacing sick days with floating holidays which can be scheduled.
Finding a replacement for someone who won’t work their shift becomes much easier with a larger staff of people working less hours. It’s amazing how available people become when they’re not getting their hours in. Perhaps not as cohesive or effective a crew but the job will get done.
” You have NO IDEA what it takes to operate these departments.”
very true, but I do recognize a dead end road when I get close enough to the end of it.
We’d all love better protection but there are financial realities to face.
August 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM #442311Participant“NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime.”
There are many ways to break up shifts. The ones firefighters push for in effect do guarantee overtime.
“Cities have done numerous studies that show it’s actually cheaper to have O/T employees than it would be to hire additional “stand-by” staff to cover the shifts.”
Why? because of the benefits package? The private sector has found more part time employees cost less (as Unfortunate as that is for the employee). Are you saying the real problem is government employees retiring after only 20 years for a large percentage of their pay? What about quality, how many captains are we losing that will be exchanged for recruits because we chose to pay them overtime instead of new hires?
“They are paid to sleep, only because they need to respond to calls 24 hours a day.”
and the police don’t?
“If you think having your sleep interrupted every hour or two (or not getting any sleep at all)”
Are you are saying our live savers are sleep deprived on a regular basis, choosing longer shifts, more overtime, and longer periods of time off over safety?
“If they only worked 8-10 hours, how does that work when they are required to work for a week or more during wildfire season?”
Simple, work a week or more during wildfire season. They were already on OT anyways on the second day, maybe even the first depending on when their shift started.
What do you do with less firefighters getting a lot of overtime when wildfire season comes around? Do you try to put out the fires 1.5x faster?
“and fewer problems with people calling in for sick”
If someone is sick they should not be at work. Are you saying firefighters would call in sick that are not. The private sector solves that by getting rid of people who are unreliable and replacing sick days with floating holidays which can be scheduled.
Finding a replacement for someone who won’t work their shift becomes much easier with a larger staff of people working less hours. It’s amazing how available people become when they’re not getting their hours in. Perhaps not as cohesive or effective a crew but the job will get done.
” You have NO IDEA what it takes to operate these departments.”
very true, but I do recognize a dead end road when I get close enough to the end of it.
We’d all love better protection but there are financial realities to face.
August 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM #442382Participant“NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime.”
There are many ways to break up shifts. The ones firefighters push for in effect do guarantee overtime.
“Cities have done numerous studies that show it’s actually cheaper to have O/T employees than it would be to hire additional “stand-by” staff to cover the shifts.”
Why? because of the benefits package? The private sector has found more part time employees cost less (as Unfortunate as that is for the employee). Are you saying the real problem is government employees retiring after only 20 years for a large percentage of their pay? What about quality, how many captains are we losing that will be exchanged for recruits because we chose to pay them overtime instead of new hires?
“They are paid to sleep, only because they need to respond to calls 24 hours a day.”
and the police don’t?
“If you think having your sleep interrupted every hour or two (or not getting any sleep at all)”
Are you are saying our live savers are sleep deprived on a regular basis, choosing longer shifts, more overtime, and longer periods of time off over safety?
“If they only worked 8-10 hours, how does that work when they are required to work for a week or more during wildfire season?”
Simple, work a week or more during wildfire season. They were already on OT anyways on the second day, maybe even the first depending on when their shift started.
What do you do with less firefighters getting a lot of overtime when wildfire season comes around? Do you try to put out the fires 1.5x faster?
“and fewer problems with people calling in for sick”
If someone is sick they should not be at work. Are you saying firefighters would call in sick that are not. The private sector solves that by getting rid of people who are unreliable and replacing sick days with floating holidays which can be scheduled.
Finding a replacement for someone who won’t work their shift becomes much easier with a larger staff of people working less hours. It’s amazing how available people become when they’re not getting their hours in. Perhaps not as cohesive or effective a crew but the job will get done.
” You have NO IDEA what it takes to operate these departments.”
very true, but I do recognize a dead end road when I get close enough to the end of it.
We’d all love better protection but there are financial realities to face.
August 6, 2009 at 8:56 PM #442557Participant“NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime.”
There are many ways to break up shifts. The ones firefighters push for in effect do guarantee overtime.
“Cities have done numerous studies that show it’s actually cheaper to have O/T employees than it would be to hire additional “stand-by” staff to cover the shifts.”
Why? because of the benefits package? The private sector has found more part time employees cost less (as Unfortunate as that is for the employee). Are you saying the real problem is government employees retiring after only 20 years for a large percentage of their pay? What about quality, how many captains are we losing that will be exchanged for recruits because we chose to pay them overtime instead of new hires?
“They are paid to sleep, only because they need to respond to calls 24 hours a day.”
and the police don’t?
“If you think having your sleep interrupted every hour or two (or not getting any sleep at all)”
Are you are saying our live savers are sleep deprived on a regular basis, choosing longer shifts, more overtime, and longer periods of time off over safety?
“If they only worked 8-10 hours, how does that work when they are required to work for a week or more during wildfire season?”
Simple, work a week or more during wildfire season. They were already on OT anyways on the second day, maybe even the first depending on when their shift started.
What do you do with less firefighters getting a lot of overtime when wildfire season comes around? Do you try to put out the fires 1.5x faster?
“and fewer problems with people calling in for sick”
If someone is sick they should not be at work. Are you saying firefighters would call in sick that are not. The private sector solves that by getting rid of people who are unreliable and replacing sick days with floating holidays which can be scheduled.
Finding a replacement for someone who won’t work their shift becomes much easier with a larger staff of people working less hours. It’s amazing how available people become when they’re not getting their hours in. Perhaps not as cohesive or effective a crew but the job will get done.
” You have NO IDEA what it takes to operate these departments.”
very true, but I do recognize a dead end road when I get close enough to the end of it.
We’d all love better protection but there are financial realities to face.
August 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM #441796paramount
Participant[quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.
August 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM #441992Participant[quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.
August 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM #442326Participant[quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.
August 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM #442395Participant[quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.
August 6, 2009 at 9:40 PM #442572Participant[quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.
August 6, 2009 at 9:51 PM #441801Participant[quote=paramount][quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.[/quote]
Saw that too,
firefighters are on standby 100% of the time. Just like doctors, utilities, even your plumber.August 6, 2009 at 9:51 PM #441997Participant[quote=paramount][quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.[/quote]
Saw that too,
firefighters are on standby 100% of the time. Just like doctors, utilities, even your plumber.August 6, 2009 at 9:51 PM #442331Participant[quote=paramount][quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.[/quote]
Saw that too,
firefighters are on standby 100% of the time. Just like doctors, utilities, even your plumber.August 6, 2009 at 9:51 PM #442400Participant[quote=paramount][quote]NOBODY is “guaranteed” overtime. The reason police and firefighters work O/T is because — unlike desk jockeys in the corporate world — they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time — [/quote]
Nobody is 100% necessary , 100% of the time…NOBODY.[/quote]
Saw that too,
firefighters are on standby 100% of the time. Just like doctors, utilities, even your plumber. -
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