50 years of pension for 20 years of work

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.[/quote]

So…why aren’t you living in Somalia? No government, and NO TAXES!! Yay! It’s a capitalist’s wet dream!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.[/quote]

So…why aren’t you living in Somalia? No government, and NO TAXES!! Yay! It’s a capitalist’s wet dream!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.[/quote]

So…why aren’t you living in Somalia? No government, and NO TAXES!! Yay! It’s a capitalist’s wet dream!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.[/quote]

So…why aren’t you living in Somalia? No government, and NO TAXES!! Yay! It’s a capitalist’s wet dream!

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]

Yes, they are 100% necessary, 100% of the time. [/quote]

Uh, no they are not – I guarantee you the world and most likely mine and everyone else’s world will keep spinning with or without police and firefighters.

They are important, but not 100% important, 100% of the time. And that goes for anything and everything on this planet.[/quote]

So…why aren’t you living in Somalia? No government, and NO TAXES!! Yay! It’s a capitalist’s wet dream!

[CA renter]

Please re-read this thread, as many of the issues were already discussed here:

http://piggington.com/san_diego_fire_chief_retires_at_53_with_123kyr_pension_for_life

Seriously, it’s impossible to have a debate with people who have no experience or knowledge about the topic.

Signing off…

[CA renter]

Please re-read this thread, as many of the issues were already discussed here:

http://piggington.com/san_diego_fire_chief_retires_at_53_with_123kyr_pension_for_life

Seriously, it’s impossible to have a debate with people who have no experience or knowledge about the topic.

Signing off…

[CA renter]

Please re-read this thread, as many of the issues were already discussed here:

http://piggington.com/san_diego_fire_chief_retires_at_53_with_123kyr_pension_for_life

Seriously, it’s impossible to have a debate with people who have no experience or knowledge about the topic.

Signing off…

[CA renter]

Please re-read this thread, as many of the issues were already discussed here:

http://piggington.com/san_diego_fire_chief_retires_at_53_with_123kyr_pension_for_life

Seriously, it’s impossible to have a debate with people who have no experience or knowledge about the topic.

Signing off…

[CA renter]

Please re-read this thread, as many of the issues were already discussed here:

http://piggington.com/san_diego_fire_chief_retires_at_53_with_123kyr_pension_for_life

Seriously, it’s impossible to have a debate with people who have no experience or knowledge about the topic.

Signing off…

[Akula1992]

Just a word or two about the 20 years of work for the 40 some odd years of retirement.

I’m now 40-something and have been in the military for 21 years now. I figure I still have several years left in me but why does the military and the fire department, etc. let people retire with so few years in the job? I think I might have an answer.

Speaking from a strictly military point of view, the job can do some pretty bad things to your body. Ruck marches, training, walking on steel floors all day, fighting fires, carrying very heavy stuff – it all adds up over time. I can simply not do all the same things now as I was able to do when I was 25, 30 or 35. Every year I have taken longer to heal and by the time you are in your mid 40’s most of the front line types have used up a lot of whatever their body had to offer. Not bitching about it at all – it just happens to be a fact of life.

So why do we offer retirements to folk like fire fighters so “early” in their careers? Probably because, like me, their bodies are not healing as quickly as they used to from the constant abuse we subject them to every day. I firmly believe that Police Officers should be included in the same group but they do tend to have alternate career option within the force that are valid and allow for continued employment that the Fire Departments do not.

I now teach Fire Fighting for the Navy and I will tell you that it is a young man’s game. If anyone doubts me please allow me to put you in turnout gear with a Scott AirPack, fire fighting boots, flash gear, helmet and give you one 50 foot section of 4 inch fire hose(just one) to carry through a 400 degrees fire box and up two flights of stairs. I believe that the experience would be illuminating considering that ‘real’ fires burn much hotter.

OK, done with that side of the discussion.

Now, are fire fighters overpaid?

My ECON undergrad degree would suggest that they are. Supply and demand theory and a Pareto efficient curve suggest that there are an excess of people willing to do the job but there are barriers to entry that prevent the equitable distribution or resources.

I had guys that worked for me in the Navy that were Damage Controlmen that had basic and advanced fire fighting training, years of practical experience, CBR training, CPR, Basic and Advanced First Aid, infectious disease defense, Ambulance Attendant and EMT training and spent many, many off duty hours and weekends volunteering just to try to get into the good graces of the local fire department to try to get a job.

It’s tough.

You almost have to wait for a guy to die(and be related to him) to get in. That is the barrier to entry that I mentioned. To formalize the argument – it is the Union. It is an artificiality that distorts the market and makes us bear a larger burden(cost).

There are some reforms that we could do but those would be slaying some pretty damned sacred cows.

Just my 2 cents. And sorry, but I guess that was more than just a word or two. Mea Culpa…

[Akula1992]

Just a word or two about the 20 years of work for the 40 some odd years of retirement.

I’m now 40-something and have been in the military for 21 years now. I figure I still have several years left in me but why does the military and the fire department, etc. let people retire with so few years in the job? I think I might have an answer.

Speaking from a strictly military point of view, the job can do some pretty bad things to your body. Ruck marches, training, walking on steel floors all day, fighting fires, carrying very heavy stuff – it all adds up over time. I can simply not do all the same things now as I was able to do when I was 25, 30 or 35. Every year I have taken longer to heal and by the time you are in your mid 40’s most of the front line types have used up a lot of whatever their body had to offer. Not bitching about it at all – it just happens to be a fact of life.

So why do we offer retirements to folk like fire fighters so “early” in their careers? Probably because, like me, their bodies are not healing as quickly as they used to from the constant abuse we subject them to every day. I firmly believe that Police Officers should be included in the same group but they do tend to have alternate career option within the force that are valid and allow for continued employment that the Fire Departments do not.

I now teach Fire Fighting for the Navy and I will tell you that it is a young man’s game. If anyone doubts me please allow me to put you in turnout gear with a Scott AirPack, fire fighting boots, flash gear, helmet and give you one 50 foot section of 4 inch fire hose(just one) to carry through a 400 degrees fire box and up two flights of stairs. I believe that the experience would be illuminating considering that ‘real’ fires burn much hotter.

OK, done with that side of the discussion.

Now, are fire fighters overpaid?

My ECON undergrad degree would suggest that they are. Supply and demand theory and a Pareto efficient curve suggest that there are an excess of people willing to do the job but there are barriers to entry that prevent the equitable distribution or resources.

I had guys that worked for me in the Navy that were Damage Controlmen that had basic and advanced fire fighting training, years of practical experience, CBR training, CPR, Basic and Advanced First Aid, infectious disease defense, Ambulance Attendant and EMT training and spent many, many off duty hours and weekends volunteering just to try to get into the good graces of the local fire department to try to get a job.

It’s tough.

You almost have to wait for a guy to die(and be related to him) to get in. That is the barrier to entry that I mentioned. To formalize the argument – it is the Union. It is an artificiality that distorts the market and makes us bear a larger burden(cost).

There are some reforms that we could do but those would be slaying some pretty damned sacred cows.

Just my 2 cents. And sorry, but I guess that was more than just a word or two. Mea Culpa…

[Akula1992]

Just a word or two about the 20 years of work for the 40 some odd years of retirement.

I’m now 40-something and have been in the military for 21 years now. I figure I still have several years left in me but why does the military and the fire department, etc. let people retire with so few years in the job? I think I might have an answer.

Speaking from a strictly military point of view, the job can do some pretty bad things to your body. Ruck marches, training, walking on steel floors all day, fighting fires, carrying very heavy stuff – it all adds up over time. I can simply not do all the same things now as I was able to do when I was 25, 30 or 35. Every year I have taken longer to heal and by the time you are in your mid 40’s most of the front line types have used up a lot of whatever their body had to offer. Not bitching about it at all – it just happens to be a fact of life.

So why do we offer retirements to folk like fire fighters so “early” in their careers? Probably because, like me, their bodies are not healing as quickly as they used to from the constant abuse we subject them to every day. I firmly believe that Police Officers should be included in the same group but they do tend to have alternate career option within the force that are valid and allow for continued employment that the Fire Departments do not.

I now teach Fire Fighting for the Navy and I will tell you that it is a young man’s game. If anyone doubts me please allow me to put you in turnout gear with a Scott AirPack, fire fighting boots, flash gear, helmet and give you one 50 foot section of 4 inch fire hose(just one) to carry through a 400 degrees fire box and up two flights of stairs. I believe that the experience would be illuminating considering that ‘real’ fires burn much hotter.

OK, done with that side of the discussion.

Now, are fire fighters overpaid?

My ECON undergrad degree would suggest that they are. Supply and demand theory and a Pareto efficient curve suggest that there are an excess of people willing to do the job but there are barriers to entry that prevent the equitable distribution or resources.

I had guys that worked for me in the Navy that were Damage Controlmen that had basic and advanced fire fighting training, years of practical experience, CBR training, CPR, Basic and Advanced First Aid, infectious disease defense, Ambulance Attendant and EMT training and spent many, many off duty hours and weekends volunteering just to try to get into the good graces of the local fire department to try to get a job.

It’s tough.

You almost have to wait for a guy to die(and be related to him) to get in. That is the barrier to entry that I mentioned. To formalize the argument – it is the Union. It is an artificiality that distorts the market and makes us bear a larger burden(cost).

There are some reforms that we could do but those would be slaying some pretty damned sacred cows.

Just my 2 cents. And sorry, but I guess that was more than just a word or two. Mea Culpa…

[Akula1992]

Just a word or two about the 20 years of work for the 40 some odd years of retirement.

I’m now 40-something and have been in the military for 21 years now. I figure I still have several years left in me but why does the military and the fire department, etc. let people retire with so few years in the job? I think I might have an answer.

Speaking from a strictly military point of view, the job can do some pretty bad things to your body. Ruck marches, training, walking on steel floors all day, fighting fires, carrying very heavy stuff – it all adds up over time. I can simply not do all the same things now as I was able to do when I was 25, 30 or 35. Every year I have taken longer to heal and by the time you are in your mid 40’s most of the front line types have used up a lot of whatever their body had to offer. Not bitching about it at all – it just happens to be a fact of life.

So why do we offer retirements to folk like fire fighters so “early” in their careers? Probably because, like me, their bodies are not healing as quickly as they used to from the constant abuse we subject them to every day. I firmly believe that Police Officers should be included in the same group but they do tend to have alternate career option within the force that are valid and allow for continued employment that the Fire Departments do not.

I now teach Fire Fighting for the Navy and I will tell you that it is a young man’s game. If anyone doubts me please allow me to put you in turnout gear with a Scott AirPack, fire fighting boots, flash gear, helmet and give you one 50 foot section of 4 inch fire hose(just one) to carry through a 400 degrees fire box and up two flights of stairs. I believe that the experience would be illuminating considering that ‘real’ fires burn much hotter.

OK, done with that side of the discussion.

Now, are fire fighters overpaid?

My ECON undergrad degree would suggest that they are. Supply and demand theory and a Pareto efficient curve suggest that there are an excess of people willing to do the job but there are barriers to entry that prevent the equitable distribution or resources.

I had guys that worked for me in the Navy that were Damage Controlmen that had basic and advanced fire fighting training, years of practical experience, CBR training, CPR, Basic and Advanced First Aid, infectious disease defense, Ambulance Attendant and EMT training and spent many, many off duty hours and weekends volunteering just to try to get into the good graces of the local fire department to try to get a job.

It’s tough.

You almost have to wait for a guy to die(and be related to him) to get in. That is the barrier to entry that I mentioned. To formalize the argument – it is the Union. It is an artificiality that distorts the market and makes us bear a larger burden(cost).

There are some reforms that we could do but those would be slaying some pretty damned sacred cows.

Just my 2 cents. And sorry, but I guess that was more than just a word or two. Mea Culpa…

[Author]

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