OT: Military Officer Refuses Order from Obama

[Kilohana]

I’m stunned that some of you feel that a Hawaii COLB is no longer considered a legally valid document – especially when the contents are personally verified by the appropriate state officials. The HI Dept. of Health certified the entire COLB to be true. Not just the parts you happen agree with. And yes, that includes the location of birth, Honolulu.

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” – Dr. Chiyome Fukino

“Birthers” see all kinds of problems with this statement – they believe Dr. Fukino has apparently seen the original (Kenyan) certificate but is in on the conspiracy by allowing Obama to have a Hawaiian COLB which contains fraudulent information. Occam’s Razor, anyone?

…Or maybe, she was just trying to say that after viewing the original, she found no irregularities between that and the COLB abstract, and everything on record is in accordance with their policy of providing accurate information on their official state documents? Naw.

I’ve used the exact same Hawaiian COLB to obtain my daughter’s US passport, SSN and register her for public schools. I’m stunned that people now feel they can pick and choose which parts are to be believed and which are not – especially when all it takes is a simple accusation of fraud, with no evidence to support it at all. The very accusation is suddenly evidence that there is a problem with the document.

As it stands, the only “evidence” to refute Obama’s Honolulu birth is an interview (by a journalist) of the 86 year old *step* grandmother of Barack Obama – claiming she witnessed his birth in Kenya. BUT… I’ve also read articles where she claims she was mistaken and he had never been to Kenya until he was in his teens. Either way, she makes a terrible witness. If that’s all you’ve got, you’ve got nothing.

Everything else I have read on the matter is pure conjecture – with blogger after blogger quoting WorldNetDaily and eachother over and over as some sort of “confirmation” for their theories. Again, no evidence has ever been offered for any of these accusations. No travel/customs records for a trip to Kenya in 1961, no Kenyan hospital records, no Kenyan government records – nothing. In my book, if you’re going to make serious allegations, YOU need to bring the proof. Since when to we presume guilt before innocence?

Court after court has thrown these birther cases out. They’re a frivolous waste of time unless someone bothers to gather some evidence and actually file in the proper court.

I absolutely know that even IF Obama’s vault copy were to be released in court, it still wouldn’t satisfy the doubters. They’re convinced that the certified, official COLB is fake and the original has been tampered with by now. After all, state officials are all in on the conspiracy.

It will never end, no matter what Obama does at this point. It’s best for him to ignore it until a US court compels him to respond.

[sobmaz]

[quote=partypup][quote=sobmaz]You gotta wonder, if there was REALLY any question about Obama’s birth, why the Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts violated his oath of office and swore in TWICE an illegitimate President?

[/quote]

And you gotta wonder, if there was REALLY a question about the legitimacy of how the Fed spent TARP money, the Dems and the Republicans would be on top of it and mandate that the Fed release this information, right? But they have not. Don’t assume that our elected officials will work tirelessly to ensure that all misdeeds and lies will be exposed to the public. We’ve known the markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks, but it wasn’t until last week when Goldman’s secret, arguably illegal trading code was stolen that we were given a glimpse of the extent of the manipulation. And yet this manipulation has stood in the dark for many, many years. You would think someone would have brought this to light sooner, right? But that’s not how things in this country – or any country – work.

There are a lot of things that would leave you wondering – if we still lived in a country led by honest ands law abiding people. But we don’t. The last official act of any government is to loot its Treasury (currently underway). Before it does that, it treats its citizens like fools and waits to see if they respond. When they don’t, the government realizes it can get away with anything. Look around you. Sneaking an impostor into office would be one of the milder offenses committed by these crooks in recent years.

The parties are no longer separate. They have a common goal with only slightly different means to accomplish that goal. Both parties have worked together to bankrupt this country in different ways. To believe that the overwhelming majority of GOP leadership (not its constituents, Paul, DeMint or other fringe elements) truly loathes Obama as much as they claim to is naive. I think there are some issues that the power brokers in both parties have simply decided are off-limits. Dismantling the Fed appears to be one such issue. U.S. hegemony in the Middle East would be another. The chatter and bickering that you hear on the other, smaller issues (gay marriage, abortion, etc) is just white noise designed to motivate us to root for our respective “teams”.[/quote]

To a degree you are right, but their is no question they still fight over who runs the show. You say they didn’t investigate the Clinton murders because (I don’t believe in the murders, DITTO HEADS d0) because they are all scratching each others backs? Then tell my, why did the Republicans spend 10s of millions investigating a blow job and a lie about a blow job and then have him impeached? It seems to me that if they could get him for murder they would have.

Could it be there was no murder? Could it be Republicans don’t pursue the Birth Certificate issue is because there is no Birth Certificate issue?

[sobmaz]

[quote=partypup][quote=sobmaz]You gotta wonder, if there was REALLY any question about Obama’s birth, why the Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts violated his oath of office and swore in TWICE an illegitimate President?

[/quote]

And you gotta wonder, if there was REALLY a question about the legitimacy of how the Fed spent TARP money, the Dems and the Republicans would be on top of it and mandate that the Fed release this information, right? But they have not. Don’t assume that our elected officials will work tirelessly to ensure that all misdeeds and lies will be exposed to the public. We’ve known the markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks, but it wasn’t until last week when Goldman’s secret, arguably illegal trading code was stolen that we were given a glimpse of the extent of the manipulation. And yet this manipulation has stood in the dark for many, many years. You would think someone would have brought this to light sooner, right? But that’s not how things in this country – or any country – work.

There are a lot of things that would leave you wondering – if we still lived in a country led by honest ands law abiding people. But we don’t. The last official act of any government is to loot its Treasury (currently underway). Before it does that, it treats its citizens like fools and waits to see if they respond. When they don’t, the government realizes it can get away with anything. Look around you. Sneaking an impostor into office would be one of the milder offenses committed by these crooks in recent years.

The parties are no longer separate. They have a common goal with only slightly different means to accomplish that goal. Both parties have worked together to bankrupt this country in different ways. To believe that the overwhelming majority of GOP leadership (not its constituents, Paul, DeMint or other fringe elements) truly loathes Obama as much as they claim to is naive. I think there are some issues that the power brokers in both parties have simply decided are off-limits. Dismantling the Fed appears to be one such issue. U.S. hegemony in the Middle East would be another. The chatter and bickering that you hear on the other, smaller issues (gay marriage, abortion, etc) is just white noise designed to motivate us to root for our respective “teams”.[/quote]

To a degree you are right, but their is no question they still fight over who runs the show. You say they didn’t investigate the Clinton murders because (I don’t believe in the murders, DITTO HEADS d0) because they are all scratching each others backs? Then tell my, why did the Republicans spend 10s of millions investigating a blow job and a lie about a blow job and then have him impeached? It seems to me that if they could get him for murder they would have.

Could it be there was no murder? Could it be Republicans don’t pursue the Birth Certificate issue is because there is no Birth Certificate issue?

[sobmaz]

[quote=partypup][quote=sobmaz]You gotta wonder, if there was REALLY any question about Obama’s birth, why the Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts violated his oath of office and swore in TWICE an illegitimate President?

[/quote]

And you gotta wonder, if there was REALLY a question about the legitimacy of how the Fed spent TARP money, the Dems and the Republicans would be on top of it and mandate that the Fed release this information, right? But they have not. Don’t assume that our elected officials will work tirelessly to ensure that all misdeeds and lies will be exposed to the public. We’ve known the markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks, but it wasn’t until last week when Goldman’s secret, arguably illegal trading code was stolen that we were given a glimpse of the extent of the manipulation. And yet this manipulation has stood in the dark for many, many years. You would think someone would have brought this to light sooner, right? But that’s not how things in this country – or any country – work.

There are a lot of things that would leave you wondering – if we still lived in a country led by honest ands law abiding people. But we don’t. The last official act of any government is to loot its Treasury (currently underway). Before it does that, it treats its citizens like fools and waits to see if they respond. When they don’t, the government realizes it can get away with anything. Look around you. Sneaking an impostor into office would be one of the milder offenses committed by these crooks in recent years.

The parties are no longer separate. They have a common goal with only slightly different means to accomplish that goal. Both parties have worked together to bankrupt this country in different ways. To believe that the overwhelming majority of GOP leadership (not its constituents, Paul, DeMint or other fringe elements) truly loathes Obama as much as they claim to is naive. I think there are some issues that the power brokers in both parties have simply decided are off-limits. Dismantling the Fed appears to be one such issue. U.S. hegemony in the Middle East would be another. The chatter and bickering that you hear on the other, smaller issues (gay marriage, abortion, etc) is just white noise designed to motivate us to root for our respective “teams”.[/quote]

To a degree you are right, but their is no question they still fight over who runs the show. You say they didn’t investigate the Clinton murders because (I don’t believe in the murders, DITTO HEADS d0) because they are all scratching each others backs? Then tell my, why did the Republicans spend 10s of millions investigating a blow job and a lie about a blow job and then have him impeached? It seems to me that if they could get him for murder they would have.

Could it be there was no murder? Could it be Republicans don’t pursue the Birth Certificate issue is because there is no Birth Certificate issue?

[sobmaz]

[quote=partypup][quote=sobmaz]You gotta wonder, if there was REALLY any question about Obama’s birth, why the Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts violated his oath of office and swore in TWICE an illegitimate President?

[/quote]

And you gotta wonder, if there was REALLY a question about the legitimacy of how the Fed spent TARP money, the Dems and the Republicans would be on top of it and mandate that the Fed release this information, right? But they have not. Don’t assume that our elected officials will work tirelessly to ensure that all misdeeds and lies will be exposed to the public. We’ve known the markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks, but it wasn’t until last week when Goldman’s secret, arguably illegal trading code was stolen that we were given a glimpse of the extent of the manipulation. And yet this manipulation has stood in the dark for many, many years. You would think someone would have brought this to light sooner, right? But that’s not how things in this country – or any country – work.

There are a lot of things that would leave you wondering – if we still lived in a country led by honest ands law abiding people. But we don’t. The last official act of any government is to loot its Treasury (currently underway). Before it does that, it treats its citizens like fools and waits to see if they respond. When they don’t, the government realizes it can get away with anything. Look around you. Sneaking an impostor into office would be one of the milder offenses committed by these crooks in recent years.

The parties are no longer separate. They have a common goal with only slightly different means to accomplish that goal. Both parties have worked together to bankrupt this country in different ways. To believe that the overwhelming majority of GOP leadership (not its constituents, Paul, DeMint or other fringe elements) truly loathes Obama as much as they claim to is naive. I think there are some issues that the power brokers in both parties have simply decided are off-limits. Dismantling the Fed appears to be one such issue. U.S. hegemony in the Middle East would be another. The chatter and bickering that you hear on the other, smaller issues (gay marriage, abortion, etc) is just white noise designed to motivate us to root for our respective “teams”.[/quote]

To a degree you are right, but their is no question they still fight over who runs the show. You say they didn’t investigate the Clinton murders because (I don’t believe in the murders, DITTO HEADS d0) because they are all scratching each others backs? Then tell my, why did the Republicans spend 10s of millions investigating a blow job and a lie about a blow job and then have him impeached? It seems to me that if they could get him for murder they would have.

Could it be there was no murder? Could it be Republicans don’t pursue the Birth Certificate issue is because there is no Birth Certificate issue?

[sobmaz]

[quote=partypup][quote=sobmaz]You gotta wonder, if there was REALLY any question about Obama’s birth, why the Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts violated his oath of office and swore in TWICE an illegitimate President?

[/quote]

And you gotta wonder, if there was REALLY a question about the legitimacy of how the Fed spent TARP money, the Dems and the Republicans would be on top of it and mandate that the Fed release this information, right? But they have not. Don’t assume that our elected officials will work tirelessly to ensure that all misdeeds and lies will be exposed to the public. We’ve known the markets have been manipulated for years by the big banks, but it wasn’t until last week when Goldman’s secret, arguably illegal trading code was stolen that we were given a glimpse of the extent of the manipulation. And yet this manipulation has stood in the dark for many, many years. You would think someone would have brought this to light sooner, right? But that’s not how things in this country – or any country – work.

There are a lot of things that would leave you wondering – if we still lived in a country led by honest ands law abiding people. But we don’t. The last official act of any government is to loot its Treasury (currently underway). Before it does that, it treats its citizens like fools and waits to see if they respond. When they don’t, the government realizes it can get away with anything. Look around you. Sneaking an impostor into office would be one of the milder offenses committed by these crooks in recent years.

The parties are no longer separate. They have a common goal with only slightly different means to accomplish that goal. Both parties have worked together to bankrupt this country in different ways. To believe that the overwhelming majority of GOP leadership (not its constituents, Paul, DeMint or other fringe elements) truly loathes Obama as much as they claim to is naive. I think there are some issues that the power brokers in both parties have simply decided are off-limits. Dismantling the Fed appears to be one such issue. U.S. hegemony in the Middle East would be another. The chatter and bickering that you hear on the other, smaller issues (gay marriage, abortion, etc) is just white noise designed to motivate us to root for our respective “teams”.[/quote]

To a degree you are right, but their is no question they still fight over who runs the show. You say they didn’t investigate the Clinton murders because (I don’t believe in the murders, DITTO HEADS d0) because they are all scratching each others backs? Then tell my, why did the Republicans spend 10s of millions investigating a blow job and a lie about a blow job and then have him impeached? It seems to me that if they could get him for murder they would have.

Could it be there was no murder? Could it be Republicans don’t pursue the Birth Certificate issue is because there is no Birth Certificate issue?

[Anonymous]

[quote=partypup][quote=pri_dk]Questions:

If any of us were to run for President, how would we prove we were born in the US?

Is anyone in this discussion able to provide more proof than a birth certificate?

If all of our past Presidents were required to produce more official proof than a state-issued birth certificate, could they have done so?[/quote]

I don’t know the answers to questions 2 or 3, but I had to present a certified live birth certificate when I took the CA Bar (in addition to fingerprints and an extensive background check). This is apparently more documentation than is currently required of a presidential candidate. Which is not a comforting fact.[/quote]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. The state of Hawaii says it’s legit.

He’s also on the Bar in Illinois.

Anyway, How do fingerprints and a background check verify where someone was born? What do they check? (perhaps they check the birth records, which is the same office that produces the birth certificates.)

I’m pretty sure there is no secret database of US births that is separate from each state’s vital records departments. State birth certificates are the only official record.

Could you provide any more proof (using official documentation) that you were born in the US?

I was born in Pennsylvania and never left the country until I was an adult and the army sent me on a all-expense paid vacation. I hardly even knew anyone from another country when I was growing up.

However, I still don’t have anything better than a birth certificate to prove that I was born here. That’s all anybody has.

Obama has provided as much proof as any Presidential candidate ever has. So why is he being held to a different standard?

[Anonymous]

[quote=partypup][quote=pri_dk]Questions:

If any of us were to run for President, how would we prove we were born in the US?

Is anyone in this discussion able to provide more proof than a birth certificate?

If all of our past Presidents were required to produce more official proof than a state-issued birth certificate, could they have done so?[/quote]

I don’t know the answers to questions 2 or 3, but I had to present a certified live birth certificate when I took the CA Bar (in addition to fingerprints and an extensive background check). This is apparently more documentation than is currently required of a presidential candidate. Which is not a comforting fact.[/quote]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. The state of Hawaii says it’s legit.

He’s also on the Bar in Illinois.

Anyway, How do fingerprints and a background check verify where someone was born? What do they check? (perhaps they check the birth records, which is the same office that produces the birth certificates.)

I’m pretty sure there is no secret database of US births that is separate from each state’s vital records departments. State birth certificates are the only official record.

Could you provide any more proof (using official documentation) that you were born in the US?

I was born in Pennsylvania and never left the country until I was an adult and the army sent me on a all-expense paid vacation. I hardly even knew anyone from another country when I was growing up.

However, I still don’t have anything better than a birth certificate to prove that I was born here. That’s all anybody has.

Obama has provided as much proof as any Presidential candidate ever has. So why is he being held to a different standard?

[Anonymous]

[quote=partypup][quote=pri_dk]Questions:

If any of us were to run for President, how would we prove we were born in the US?

Is anyone in this discussion able to provide more proof than a birth certificate?

If all of our past Presidents were required to produce more official proof than a state-issued birth certificate, could they have done so?[/quote]

I don’t know the answers to questions 2 or 3, but I had to present a certified live birth certificate when I took the CA Bar (in addition to fingerprints and an extensive background check). This is apparently more documentation than is currently required of a presidential candidate. Which is not a comforting fact.[/quote]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. The state of Hawaii says it’s legit.

He’s also on the Bar in Illinois.

Anyway, How do fingerprints and a background check verify where someone was born? What do they check? (perhaps they check the birth records, which is the same office that produces the birth certificates.)

I’m pretty sure there is no secret database of US births that is separate from each state’s vital records departments. State birth certificates are the only official record.

Could you provide any more proof (using official documentation) that you were born in the US?

I was born in Pennsylvania and never left the country until I was an adult and the army sent me on a all-expense paid vacation. I hardly even knew anyone from another country when I was growing up.

However, I still don’t have anything better than a birth certificate to prove that I was born here. That’s all anybody has.

Obama has provided as much proof as any Presidential candidate ever has. So why is he being held to a different standard?

[Anonymous]

[quote=partypup][quote=pri_dk]Questions:

If any of us were to run for President, how would we prove we were born in the US?

Is anyone in this discussion able to provide more proof than a birth certificate?

If all of our past Presidents were required to produce more official proof than a state-issued birth certificate, could they have done so?[/quote]

I don’t know the answers to questions 2 or 3, but I had to present a certified live birth certificate when I took the CA Bar (in addition to fingerprints and an extensive background check). This is apparently more documentation than is currently required of a presidential candidate. Which is not a comforting fact.[/quote]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. The state of Hawaii says it’s legit.

He’s also on the Bar in Illinois.

Anyway, How do fingerprints and a background check verify where someone was born? What do they check? (perhaps they check the birth records, which is the same office that produces the birth certificates.)

I’m pretty sure there is no secret database of US births that is separate from each state’s vital records departments. State birth certificates are the only official record.

Could you provide any more proof (using official documentation) that you were born in the US?

I was born in Pennsylvania and never left the country until I was an adult and the army sent me on a all-expense paid vacation. I hardly even knew anyone from another country when I was growing up.

However, I still don’t have anything better than a birth certificate to prove that I was born here. That’s all anybody has.

Obama has provided as much proof as any Presidential candidate ever has. So why is he being held to a different standard?

[Anonymous]

[quote=partypup][quote=pri_dk]Questions:

If any of us were to run for President, how would we prove we were born in the US?

Is anyone in this discussion able to provide more proof than a birth certificate?

If all of our past Presidents were required to produce more official proof than a state-issued birth certificate, could they have done so?[/quote]

I don’t know the answers to questions 2 or 3, but I had to present a certified live birth certificate when I took the CA Bar (in addition to fingerprints and an extensive background check). This is apparently more documentation than is currently required of a presidential candidate. Which is not a comforting fact.[/quote]

Obama has produced a birth certificate. The state of Hawaii says it’s legit.

He’s also on the Bar in Illinois.

Anyway, How do fingerprints and a background check verify where someone was born? What do they check? (perhaps they check the birth records, which is the same office that produces the birth certificates.)

I’m pretty sure there is no secret database of US births that is separate from each state’s vital records departments. State birth certificates are the only official record.

Could you provide any more proof (using official documentation) that you were born in the US?

I was born in Pennsylvania and never left the country until I was an adult and the army sent me on a all-expense paid vacation. I hardly even knew anyone from another country when I was growing up.

However, I still don’t have anything better than a birth certificate to prove that I was born here. That’s all anybody has.

Obama has provided as much proof as any Presidential candidate ever has. So why is he being held to a different standard?

[Anonymous]

Allan,

Side note: My understanding is that technically every commissioned officer is on IRR status for life. But it really doesn’t mean anything. If things were to get that bad, I’m sure everyone would become a potential conscript.

[Anonymous]

Allan,

Side note: My understanding is that technically every commissioned officer is on IRR status for life. But it really doesn’t mean anything. If things were to get that bad, I’m sure everyone would become a potential conscript.

[Anonymous]

Allan,

Side note: My understanding is that technically every commissioned officer is on IRR status for life. But it really doesn’t mean anything. If things were to get that bad, I’m sure everyone would become a potential conscript.

[Anonymous]

Allan,

Side note: My understanding is that technically every commissioned officer is on IRR status for life. But it really doesn’t mean anything. If things were to get that bad, I’m sure everyone would become a potential conscript.

[Author]

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