OT: Justice for Alexian Lien: victim of mob beating…

[ucodegen]

[quote=UCGal]I’m on the fence whether it’s justifiable to run over people. I go back and firth on that. Mostly I understand the panic Lien felt. But it’s not clearcut to me whether he broke a law in his panic… He might have… Justifiable/understandable as it is.[/quote]For me, it depends if he was in reasonable fear of his life. Considering what was happening when he was stopped, how he was stopped, how they behaved, and that none of the bikers called 911, while Lien was ringing it off the hook.. I think it was reasonable. If you want to kill someone, using a biker gang with blacked out visors and no plates is a good way to accomplish it. How are you going to describe who did it? No plate number, nothing unique on the jackets, no visual of the driver because the visors are blacked out..

[joec]

[quote=flu]Folks, I apologize. This thread took it for the wrong direction, and it’s partly my fault.. That wasn’t my intention.

If it’s ok with all of you, I’m asking if Rich can delete all the comments on this thread.

Because the entire point was to get people to help, not to throw everyone into a slapfest. And I should have known better (I had this rage going on for the past couple of days, that I haven’t even gotten much sleep over this over the past couple of days, let and alone did pretty shitty at the autocross yesterday too)…So I’ll take the accountability on this one.. (Yeah, I know, foreign concept)…

Anyway, if folks want to help, send us a message on

facebook.com/JusticeForAlexianLienNow

If you don’t, that’s fine too. We have about 15,000 people so far that are following us and there’s soon to be another 8000 or more once we complete merging a few other groups…

Besides just “liking” this, we’ve been getting a lot of help from people who are on social media who have stumbled across videos, blogs, IM’s, instagrams, etc from people who are affiliated with these mobs who are now trying to delete things.. Obviously, in the day of data caching on the internet, one can’t really “delete” things once it’s out there, so folks have been really helpful and sending us stuff that people are trying to delete.

And it’s working because as terrible as analogy it is, it’s like having 20,000+ workers that’s watching these folks on the grid, which is probably even more effective than the NSA….

If you want to help, and you’re active on social media, that’s where we can get help from.. More information, more data, more evidence you come across, even if you think it’s a duplicate. That’s fine. Submit it to us, and we’ll cull it to see if it’s a dupe…..

The rest is up to the justice system to decide…

With that, I’m signing off this thread because duty calls…[/quote]

I for one, am glad you posted about this. I actually didn’t know about this till coming here since life is busy and I follow these forums loosely now (and don’t follow much news unless it’s financial). I think you’re also raging for the simple reason that you see that this could’ve been you. Me as well.

Since I’m not a rider, but have a family and kids, I could’ve just as easy been the SUV driver and ran over these guys.

For the people who are more supportive of the bikers, do they have a family/wife with very young kids and do they ride? That’d probably explain a lot of the back and forth since we’re all predisposed to prejudge based on our background/experiences in life and what/who we relate with.

I was raging over this case as well, but my wife didn’t seem to care to much. Maybe it’s cause women always had these fears all the time in general.

[svelte]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
I agree with SK that flu showed us the bigotry involved in the reaction to this case.[/quote]

People are too quick to call things a race issue.

I can prove it in this case.

I’ve been as upset about this whole episode as anyone – smoke comes out my ears each day as I’ve read about it.

I followed it very close for the first few days before the actual criminals were identified. All I had to go on was the initial video clip where the biker was rear-ended – where the bikers were in helmets and jackets – and textual description.

I didn’t know the names nor the races of the idiots on the bikes since none of their skin was exposed.

When I finally saw photos of them yesterday and found out they appear to all be black, it came as a complete surprise. But it didn’t raise or lower my anger level.

Ya act like a punk thug, people are gonna hate you whether you’re white, black, Asian, or Hispanic.

And hate them I do.

[zk]

del

[no_such_reality]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=no_such_reality][quote=ucodegen][quote=FlyerInHi]In the NYC incident, what if a biker had a gun and shot the driver because he “feared for his life” after then driver ran over the other guy?

Btw, I have several guns.[/quote]BTW, I drive a big freakin truck powered by a drag boat engine (big block). All the biker had to do is call it in. Put some throttle to the bike and the Range Rover couldn’t catch them. It would be harder to outrun my truck. Look up ‘Farm Truck’ on youtube. That is what old bigblocks are like when unleashed or tuned. That old red truck is his daily driver, his dog runs shotgun.

By the way, if you instigate a conflict, you can’t then kill claiming you feared for your life. And again, the biker has the option of applying throttle. The defense/fear for ones life needs to be plausible.[/quote]

Mease, the crippled biker, wasn’t breaking any laws and didn’t start any conflict. There is no law against bikes riding together. The police only denied them a permit for Times Square.[/quote]Associating with those committing a criminal act, while committing a criminal act is illegal. There is no law against bikes riding together. Standing in front of a vehicle, preventing it from moving on the highway is illegal.. and you better have a very good reason to do it, ie. the driver was drunk (I wouldn’t stand in front of a drunk drivers car). There are a lot of anti-gang laws that can be applied. Add to it, lack of license, blocked from getting a license till 2017, never had motorcycle license, no license plate on motorcycle.. he is pretty well done.

[quote=no_such_reality]Mease did confront Lein, while riding, Mease stopped after any after an accident to render assistance to a downed and injured motorcyclist. Obviously Mease was thinking appropriate, because there were off duty police officers in the group and they weren’t reporting anything.[/quote]He claims.. problem is that he has a habit of not telling the truth. The problem is that the group he was with was committing a illegal if not criminal act. The other problem is that the lookback on the video shows that the biker in white with black jacked was not hit – the Range Rover had hit its brakes hard. I suspect you have never had a vehicle ride up on your rear tire when riding a motorcycle. You stop instantly because on a high clearance vehicle, the vehicle can ride up on top of the motorcycle tire. The tire is now pinched between the road and SUV. It wants to stop turning at that point (back of motorcycle tire travels up and top of tire travels uproad, helping the SUV bumper ride up on top of the tire).

NOTE: Note bumper height on a high clearance vehicle is not the same as on a car.

No such ka-ching.[/quote]

Recognizing satire and snark about the dumbness of our legal system went by you didn’t it?

Now where will Gloria did her jury of people that aren’t aware of this case and have not formed an opinion already? Her Good Samaritan deserves it. 🙂

He’s innocent like all those other nice gentlemen hunger striking in Pelican bay. Just ask them.

[Coronita]

And if things couldn’t possibly have gotten worse…

Nice eh? No wonder he “lawyered up”, as expected…
He wasn’t undercover at the time. He was a participant that happens to have been a cop that has undercover assignments elsewhere…Big difference

http://nypost.com/2013/10/07/bike-cop-joined-in-on-suv-beatdown-video-reveals/

Bike cop joined in on SUV beatdown, hit vehicle

An off-duty undercover cop who claimed he took no active role as fellow bikers pulled a Manhattan dad from his SUV and beat him to a pulp was actually pounding the vehicle with his fists during the height of the bloody road-rage attack, sources told The Post.
The cop, a seven-year veteran, had told investigators he didn’t help the injured man because he rode up to the scene as the beating was nearly finished, sources said.
But video footage clearly shows otherwise, disgusted sources said Monday — and Internal Affairs Bureau higher-ups want to nail the officer.
Probers believe their hands are tied, however, sources said, because authorities already dropped charges against another biker, Allen Edwards, 43, of Queens, who allegedly punched the rear window of Alexian Lien’s Range Rover before Lien’s beatdown in front of his wife and 2-year-old daughter.
At the time, the chief of the Manhattan district attorney’s Trials Division, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, defended the move, saying, “Prematurely charging individuals with low-level crimes does not further the goals of the investigation and could weaken the cases we expect to bring against the perpetrators of serious crimes.”
Still, the undercover cop will likely face internal charges. He didn’t even tell his bosses that he was with the bikers — much less at the scene of the crime — until Wednesday night, more than three days after the attack.
The unnamed officer has already been placed on modified duty and turned in his gun and badge.
“I think we all, no matter what your job is, have an obligation to help one another,’’ Mayor Bloomberg said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe’’ on Monday, in response to questioning about the officer’s actions. “And if you see somebody getting beaten up, you know, let’s go jump in and stop the fight.”
Another off-duty officer also was among the bike pack, but he wasn’t anywhere near the scene of the beating, sources have said.
The explosive development came as yet a fourth biker was set to be arrested in Lien’s beating. The 29-year-old Brooklyn man was among five or six bikers who attacked the 33-year-old Columbia grad in Upper Manhattan on Sept. 29, sources said, adding he would likely face gang-assault and other charges.
The biker was tracked down after cops traced his license plate, sources said. The bike is actually registered to his uncle, who he borrowed it from, sources said.
Cops are searching for at least two more suspects, whose photos — from video footage taken at the scene — they’ve released.
Meanwhile, Christopher Cruz, 28, who allegedly started the chain of events by slowing down his bike to let his pals ahead — leaving Lien to bump his car into him — said in an interview aired Monday that he didn’t “feel responsibility’’ for what happened.
“I was looking over my shoulder to see where my friends were,” he told ABC News. “I wanted them to pull in front so I could follow them. I didn’t brake, but when I looked over my shoulder, my hand came off the throttle a little, but the driver didn’t slow down at all and bumped me.”

[CDMA ENG]

I bet that cop had read the great canons and had excellent writing skills.

CE

[scaredyclassic]

bad publciity for motorcyclists.

i did feel surges of testosterone when i would drive my scooter.

seeds of a defense?

involuntar testosterone intoxication from motorcycle?

[ucodegen]

[quote=no_such_reality]Recognizing satire and snark about the dumbness of our legal system went by you didn’t it?

Now where will Gloria did her jury of people that aren’t aware of this case and have not formed an opinion already? Her Good Samaritan deserves it. 🙂

He’s innocent like all those other nice gentlemen hunger striking in Pelican bay. Just ask them.[/quote]When events occur that are or can be inflammatory, I tend to stay away from snark because it tends not to clarify or diffuse things. I tend to put my logical/engineering hat on.

[Coronita]

Gotta love this gem that one member dug up…

Keeps getting better and better (not!) in NYC…

Dectective Samir Gonsalves was one of the cops present at the biker hijack and attack on the Lien family has been outed.

This happened earlier in August…

————————————————
nypost.Com/2013/08/04/det-da-in-brawl-with-cops/

Detective DA in brawl with cops

Hey, they’re supposed to be the good guys.

A Queens prosecutor and her boyfriend, an NYPD detective, were busted yesterday for fighting with cops trying to keep their verbal battle from turning physical, authorities said.

Off-duty Detective Samir Gonsalves, 34, and Assistant DA Jacqueline Rizk were screaming at each other on Steinway Street in Astoria at 10:15 a.m. when cops, alerted by a cabby, arrived.

The on-duty officers attempted to calm down the brawling lovebirds.

Gonsalves pushed one of the officers and was wrestled to the ground, cops said. While his colleagues were cuffing Gonsalves, of Brooklyn’s 88th Precinct, Rizk allegedly jumped on a cop’s back.

A source said the two are romantically involved and appeared to have been drinking.

Both face charges including resisting arrest, and were released without bail. Gonsalves was suspended and Rizk was placed on leave.

[Coronita]

The only thing worse than a punk…Is a punk with a badge…

http://www.dnainfo.Com/new-york/20131008/washington-heights/off-duty-cop-expected-be-charged-beating-of-suv-driver-sources-say

——————-

MANHATTAN — Investigators expect to arrest an off-duty detective who was part of the swarm of motorcyclists involved in the beating of a Manhattan dad chased down in Washington Heights, DNAInfo New York has learned.

The cop, who came forward several days after the beat down claiming he played no role in the incident, was captured on several videos pounding on the motorist’s Range Rover, according to sources familiar with the NYPD Internal Affairs investigation.

The motorist was pulled out the car, punched and stomped while his horrified wife and two-year-old daughter watched, cops said.

[spdrun]

Lock the animal in the lion cage at the Bronx Zoo, throw away the key. Disgraceful. Hope that soon-to-be-ex-cop can’t even find work as a toilet cleaner after he gets out of jail.

[equalizer]

[quote=flu][quote=SK in CV][quote=flu]
( BTW: that Mayor Bloomberg (a Democrat) supported it…. )[/quote]

Bloomberg is not a Democrat.

And the way that stop and frisk has been used by the NYPD is absurdly unconstitutional. Walking while black does not qualify as probably cause. And that IS the way they’ve used it. And that is what the court ruled on. The court didn’t limit stop and frisk when probably cause exists.[/quote]

You’re right. ok. my bad.
You know what, maybe you folks are right. I need to take a chill pill.

This case really rubbed me the wrong way. I’m just pissed off about what happened to these people, because it could have very easily been me…

I’m sick of asians getting their ass kicked when it comes to social issues.

I don’t understand how people can possibly turn the table around and even begin to remotely connect that possibly Alex could be a victimizer.

My apologies.[/quote]
Flu,

Chill out, King Bloomberg is on the case. King Bloomberg has illegally run stop and frisk against the historical minorities(body cavity searches for minute arrests), illegally spied on Muslims in Jersey, all without any justifiable results. Jersey! Not even his state, without informing the mans in that state!

Only thing Sharpton has done is have Imus fired, but he was powerless against King Bloomberg. The police dept was hot to catch these bad guys, so I’m not sure where you see all the sympathy for the bikers. Probably just typical media looking for controversy, Nielsen, points.

As for the Gloria, she is, uh, just misguided to be kind. In best case scenario, what if these cops were working deep undercover, aka Wiseguy, and just had to play along to take down all gang? Regardless, the King will now have to settle with Gloria and likely indemnify Lien.

[Ricechex]

No matter how you cut it, the bikers were overly aggressive in their response to the alleged infraction.

Even if Lien did bump one of the bikers (likely engineered by the bikers) there is NO WAY that anyone could possibly concur that stalking the man and cutting his face was justified.

The Navy has a new way of determining if domestic violence occurred. One of the criteria is to determine if the “act” was too severe in response to the offense. Example: Wife, 5’3, 100 lbs, slaps husband in the face. Husband, 6′, 200 lbs, puts his hands to her neck and throws her down, causing unconsciousness and bruising. While the wife’s behavior was not appropriate in any fashion, the response of strangling was too much. He could have made other choices.

Thus, Lien bumping a biker should NEVER have resulted in such extreme violence. The bikers are at fault and should be held accountable.

[FlyerInHi]

SUV runs over motorcyclist who did nothing to the SUV driver. That fact taken by itself sounds worse than the 200# husband beating his 100# wife.

You want facts or context; and if context, how much context?

[Author]

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