OT – Joe the Plumber

[TheBreeze]

[quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.

[Aecetia]

Breezey:
I am against the bailout and more of an Indepentard than a Republitard. I have not been impressed by any candidates for a very long time. Obama and McCain are no exception. I think Biden is going to make things interesting with his unique opinions. I think a change is coming, but it might not be what you were expecting.

[Aecetia]

Breezey:
I am against the bailout and more of an Indepentard than a Republitard. I have not been impressed by any candidates for a very long time. Obama and McCain are no exception. I think Biden is going to make things interesting with his unique opinions. I think a change is coming, but it might not be what you were expecting.

[Aecetia]

Breezey:
I am against the bailout and more of an Indepentard than a Republitard. I have not been impressed by any candidates for a very long time. Obama and McCain are no exception. I think Biden is going to make things interesting with his unique opinions. I think a change is coming, but it might not be what you were expecting.

[Aecetia]

Breezey:
I am against the bailout and more of an Indepentard than a Republitard. I have not been impressed by any candidates for a very long time. Obama and McCain are no exception. I think Biden is going to make things interesting with his unique opinions. I think a change is coming, but it might not be what you were expecting.

[Aecetia]

Breezey:
I am against the bailout and more of an Indepentard than a Republitard. I have not been impressed by any candidates for a very long time. Obama and McCain are no exception. I think Biden is going to make things interesting with his unique opinions. I think a change is coming, but it might not be what you were expecting.

[Coronita]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.[/quote]

The irony would be if 3 months from now, we see your republitard CEO lay you off. But, I guess at that point, the good news is you would get a tax credit back.

[Coronita]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.[/quote]

The irony would be if 3 months from now, we see your republitard CEO lay you off. But, I guess at that point, the good news is you would get a tax credit back.

[Coronita]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.[/quote]

The irony would be if 3 months from now, we see your republitard CEO lay you off. But, I guess at that point, the good news is you would get a tax credit back.

[Coronita]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.[/quote]

The irony would be if 3 months from now, we see your republitard CEO lay you off. But, I guess at that point, the good news is you would get a tax credit back.

[Coronita]

[quote=TheBreeze][quote=Aecetia]250. K is definitely not wealthy and the super rich will stay that way. The only ones paying more will be businesses that are not incorporated and I suppose they can make some of their employees part time to save money. The middle class will not do well under this proposal. [/quote]

Ooooohhhhh. Rich massar’ boogeyman gonna’ take it out on the middle class.

Have you ever thought that maybe taxes wouldn’t have to go up for anyone if your beloved republitards hadn’t doubled the deficit to $10 trillion? There are two sides to the coin: taxes and spending. Republitards cut taxes while spending like a drunken sailor. Now someone has to pay and it might as well be the Republitards’ base.[/quote]

The irony would be if 3 months from now, we see your republitard CEO lay you off. But, I guess at that point, the good news is you would get a tax credit back.

[SD Realtor]

breeze breeze breeze…

Okay let’s see. I asked you this:

“Why should someone who has worked hard and earned wealth have to contribute more to the government then anybody else?”

Your answer was essentially, a statement that many wealthy are born into wealth and many impoverished cannot escape it. Then you went into Obama raising the taxes for only the super wealthy by a few points so it’s not a big deal.

Breeze, you did not answer my question at all. Let me ask again, this time in capital letters so maybe you will answer it directly. Really that is all I ask okay?

WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED HARD AND EARNED WEALTH HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE GOVERNMENT THEN ANYBODY ELSE?

Please Breeze, simply answer that if you can with logic. Remember I am an engineer so logic is applicable here not emotion.

****

Let me break down the answer you gave me. First let’s talk about the impoverished that you brought up. Why do you not include impoverished all over the world? Why do you limit the argument to only impoverished in the United States? So is it our collective responsibility to eliminate poverty in the USA? Why is it only the resppnsibility of the super rich? Or even just the rich? How bout the middle class? Isn’t it thier responsibility as well? Isn’t it responsible for EVERYONE who is not impoverished to then raise the standards for the poor. While idealistic this is simply carrying YOUR argument to a very logical conclusion. Point out my flaw please.

Yeah some people are born into wealth. Some people are born in the Sudan as well or in Nazi Germany. That is never going to change. This is randomness, it is entropy, it is what happens in a random world. Seriously Breeze come on and try to argue logically rather then in an emotional manner. Look, if you want to be bitter at those who have a leg up on you personally in life due to being born into it, or family wealth or something like that, then your destiny is one I pity. Guess what, tall people get better jobs then short people. Attractive people get more breaks then ugly people. Are all tall people assholes? Should they be taxed more?

So what I get from your answer is that the justification for higher taxes on only those who are wealthy is

a) Because many wealthy people are born into it and have unfair advantages, OR
b) Because many impoverished will stay that way and it is very hard to break through a poverty cycle. (however this only should apply to the US correct?) (I am just trying to get the facts stright)

**************

Let me go on. You said:

“All Obama proposes to do is to increase the marginal wages of the super-rich a few percentage points. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as all the faux conservatives/capitalists make it out to be.”

No Breeze this is not true. I have already seen my accountant to discuss this. Lets say for instance I make an engineers salary of 130k. Lets say I have a real estate business on the side, and I pull in another 100k. Lets say my real estate biz is an S corp and I pay myself just like any employee. So now lets just look at social security and medicare ONLY. Just those taxes alone. Right now we hit the limit on contributions to social security and medicare at say 100k. Just picking a nice easy number right? Now lets say the limits to social security and medicare are wiped out. So now on my engineers salary I would contribute 6.2% and 1.45% as an employee on 130k rather then 100k. That is 7.65% on 30k which is a little over $2000 bucks Breeze. Now lets look at the extra 100k I make working on weekends, nights, and any other free time. So now I pay an extra 7.45% on 100k which is $7450. Oh yeah, since my S corp pays me, the scorp has to contribute another $7450 as well. So lets see, we are now at about $17,000 and we haven’t touched marginal tax rate or cap gains as well Breeze. I don’t even make 250k!

So please check your numbers. One day perhaps you will own a small business or work two jobs and maybe you will see what I mean.

*******************

Finally I asked you:

“Why should you pay less the me?”

Your answer is, and I quote,

“Somebody’s got to pay and I’m of the opinion that the super-rich have not been paying their fair share and should pay more. Feel free to vote for McCain if you want to see more tax cuts for the super-wealthy”

Do you not get it Breeze? You have all of this ire and angst against the super wealthy or the wealthy or whoever has it better then you. Guess what, there will always be people wealthier then you. There will always be those born into family, those who catch breaks, those who cheat, those who are destined for lives of luxury. The basic tenet of 12 step programs are to let go of what you cannot control.

Look, I absolutely loathe the Paris Hiltons of the world, the Mozillo crooks, white collar thieves, and the like just as much as you do. Yet that is not a reason to draw an arbitrary line and force EVERYONE on one side of the line to support those on the other side of the line. It doesn’t work that way for so many reasons.

What we have RIGHT NOW is not fair. I don’t like the tax loopholes at all but they are there. Our tax code is poorly written, there is no doubt about that. Yet our difference of opinion is much less about the tax code and much more about basic ideology.

Forget about the candidates and the elections if you can. Just try to answer the question I posed in caps above.

[SD Realtor]

breeze breeze breeze…

Okay let’s see. I asked you this:

“Why should someone who has worked hard and earned wealth have to contribute more to the government then anybody else?”

Your answer was essentially, a statement that many wealthy are born into wealth and many impoverished cannot escape it. Then you went into Obama raising the taxes for only the super wealthy by a few points so it’s not a big deal.

Breeze, you did not answer my question at all. Let me ask again, this time in capital letters so maybe you will answer it directly. Really that is all I ask okay?

WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED HARD AND EARNED WEALTH HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE GOVERNMENT THEN ANYBODY ELSE?

Please Breeze, simply answer that if you can with logic. Remember I am an engineer so logic is applicable here not emotion.

****

Let me break down the answer you gave me. First let’s talk about the impoverished that you brought up. Why do you not include impoverished all over the world? Why do you limit the argument to only impoverished in the United States? So is it our collective responsibility to eliminate poverty in the USA? Why is it only the resppnsibility of the super rich? Or even just the rich? How bout the middle class? Isn’t it thier responsibility as well? Isn’t it responsible for EVERYONE who is not impoverished to then raise the standards for the poor. While idealistic this is simply carrying YOUR argument to a very logical conclusion. Point out my flaw please.

Yeah some people are born into wealth. Some people are born in the Sudan as well or in Nazi Germany. That is never going to change. This is randomness, it is entropy, it is what happens in a random world. Seriously Breeze come on and try to argue logically rather then in an emotional manner. Look, if you want to be bitter at those who have a leg up on you personally in life due to being born into it, or family wealth or something like that, then your destiny is one I pity. Guess what, tall people get better jobs then short people. Attractive people get more breaks then ugly people. Are all tall people assholes? Should they be taxed more?

So what I get from your answer is that the justification for higher taxes on only those who are wealthy is

a) Because many wealthy people are born into it and have unfair advantages, OR
b) Because many impoverished will stay that way and it is very hard to break through a poverty cycle. (however this only should apply to the US correct?) (I am just trying to get the facts stright)

**************

Let me go on. You said:

“All Obama proposes to do is to increase the marginal wages of the super-rich a few percentage points. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as all the faux conservatives/capitalists make it out to be.”

No Breeze this is not true. I have already seen my accountant to discuss this. Lets say for instance I make an engineers salary of 130k. Lets say I have a real estate business on the side, and I pull in another 100k. Lets say my real estate biz is an S corp and I pay myself just like any employee. So now lets just look at social security and medicare ONLY. Just those taxes alone. Right now we hit the limit on contributions to social security and medicare at say 100k. Just picking a nice easy number right? Now lets say the limits to social security and medicare are wiped out. So now on my engineers salary I would contribute 6.2% and 1.45% as an employee on 130k rather then 100k. That is 7.65% on 30k which is a little over $2000 bucks Breeze. Now lets look at the extra 100k I make working on weekends, nights, and any other free time. So now I pay an extra 7.45% on 100k which is $7450. Oh yeah, since my S corp pays me, the scorp has to contribute another $7450 as well. So lets see, we are now at about $17,000 and we haven’t touched marginal tax rate or cap gains as well Breeze. I don’t even make 250k!

So please check your numbers. One day perhaps you will own a small business or work two jobs and maybe you will see what I mean.

*******************

Finally I asked you:

“Why should you pay less the me?”

Your answer is, and I quote,

“Somebody’s got to pay and I’m of the opinion that the super-rich have not been paying their fair share and should pay more. Feel free to vote for McCain if you want to see more tax cuts for the super-wealthy”

Do you not get it Breeze? You have all of this ire and angst against the super wealthy or the wealthy or whoever has it better then you. Guess what, there will always be people wealthier then you. There will always be those born into family, those who catch breaks, those who cheat, those who are destined for lives of luxury. The basic tenet of 12 step programs are to let go of what you cannot control.

Look, I absolutely loathe the Paris Hiltons of the world, the Mozillo crooks, white collar thieves, and the like just as much as you do. Yet that is not a reason to draw an arbitrary line and force EVERYONE on one side of the line to support those on the other side of the line. It doesn’t work that way for so many reasons.

What we have RIGHT NOW is not fair. I don’t like the tax loopholes at all but they are there. Our tax code is poorly written, there is no doubt about that. Yet our difference of opinion is much less about the tax code and much more about basic ideology.

Forget about the candidates and the elections if you can. Just try to answer the question I posed in caps above.

[SD Realtor]

breeze breeze breeze…

Okay let’s see. I asked you this:

“Why should someone who has worked hard and earned wealth have to contribute more to the government then anybody else?”

Your answer was essentially, a statement that many wealthy are born into wealth and many impoverished cannot escape it. Then you went into Obama raising the taxes for only the super wealthy by a few points so it’s not a big deal.

Breeze, you did not answer my question at all. Let me ask again, this time in capital letters so maybe you will answer it directly. Really that is all I ask okay?

WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED HARD AND EARNED WEALTH HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE GOVERNMENT THEN ANYBODY ELSE?

Please Breeze, simply answer that if you can with logic. Remember I am an engineer so logic is applicable here not emotion.

****

Let me break down the answer you gave me. First let’s talk about the impoverished that you brought up. Why do you not include impoverished all over the world? Why do you limit the argument to only impoverished in the United States? So is it our collective responsibility to eliminate poverty in the USA? Why is it only the resppnsibility of the super rich? Or even just the rich? How bout the middle class? Isn’t it thier responsibility as well? Isn’t it responsible for EVERYONE who is not impoverished to then raise the standards for the poor. While idealistic this is simply carrying YOUR argument to a very logical conclusion. Point out my flaw please.

Yeah some people are born into wealth. Some people are born in the Sudan as well or in Nazi Germany. That is never going to change. This is randomness, it is entropy, it is what happens in a random world. Seriously Breeze come on and try to argue logically rather then in an emotional manner. Look, if you want to be bitter at those who have a leg up on you personally in life due to being born into it, or family wealth or something like that, then your destiny is one I pity. Guess what, tall people get better jobs then short people. Attractive people get more breaks then ugly people. Are all tall people assholes? Should they be taxed more?

So what I get from your answer is that the justification for higher taxes on only those who are wealthy is

a) Because many wealthy people are born into it and have unfair advantages, OR
b) Because many impoverished will stay that way and it is very hard to break through a poverty cycle. (however this only should apply to the US correct?) (I am just trying to get the facts stright)

**************

Let me go on. You said:

“All Obama proposes to do is to increase the marginal wages of the super-rich a few percentage points. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as all the faux conservatives/capitalists make it out to be.”

No Breeze this is not true. I have already seen my accountant to discuss this. Lets say for instance I make an engineers salary of 130k. Lets say I have a real estate business on the side, and I pull in another 100k. Lets say my real estate biz is an S corp and I pay myself just like any employee. So now lets just look at social security and medicare ONLY. Just those taxes alone. Right now we hit the limit on contributions to social security and medicare at say 100k. Just picking a nice easy number right? Now lets say the limits to social security and medicare are wiped out. So now on my engineers salary I would contribute 6.2% and 1.45% as an employee on 130k rather then 100k. That is 7.65% on 30k which is a little over $2000 bucks Breeze. Now lets look at the extra 100k I make working on weekends, nights, and any other free time. So now I pay an extra 7.45% on 100k which is $7450. Oh yeah, since my S corp pays me, the scorp has to contribute another $7450 as well. So lets see, we are now at about $17,000 and we haven’t touched marginal tax rate or cap gains as well Breeze. I don’t even make 250k!

So please check your numbers. One day perhaps you will own a small business or work two jobs and maybe you will see what I mean.

*******************

Finally I asked you:

“Why should you pay less the me?”

Your answer is, and I quote,

“Somebody’s got to pay and I’m of the opinion that the super-rich have not been paying their fair share and should pay more. Feel free to vote for McCain if you want to see more tax cuts for the super-wealthy”

Do you not get it Breeze? You have all of this ire and angst against the super wealthy or the wealthy or whoever has it better then you. Guess what, there will always be people wealthier then you. There will always be those born into family, those who catch breaks, those who cheat, those who are destined for lives of luxury. The basic tenet of 12 step programs are to let go of what you cannot control.

Look, I absolutely loathe the Paris Hiltons of the world, the Mozillo crooks, white collar thieves, and the like just as much as you do. Yet that is not a reason to draw an arbitrary line and force EVERYONE on one side of the line to support those on the other side of the line. It doesn’t work that way for so many reasons.

What we have RIGHT NOW is not fair. I don’t like the tax loopholes at all but they are there. Our tax code is poorly written, there is no doubt about that. Yet our difference of opinion is much less about the tax code and much more about basic ideology.

Forget about the candidates and the elections if you can. Just try to answer the question I posed in caps above.

[SD Realtor]

breeze breeze breeze…

Okay let’s see. I asked you this:

“Why should someone who has worked hard and earned wealth have to contribute more to the government then anybody else?”

Your answer was essentially, a statement that many wealthy are born into wealth and many impoverished cannot escape it. Then you went into Obama raising the taxes for only the super wealthy by a few points so it’s not a big deal.

Breeze, you did not answer my question at all. Let me ask again, this time in capital letters so maybe you will answer it directly. Really that is all I ask okay?

WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED HARD AND EARNED WEALTH HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE GOVERNMENT THEN ANYBODY ELSE?

Please Breeze, simply answer that if you can with logic. Remember I am an engineer so logic is applicable here not emotion.

****

Let me break down the answer you gave me. First let’s talk about the impoverished that you brought up. Why do you not include impoverished all over the world? Why do you limit the argument to only impoverished in the United States? So is it our collective responsibility to eliminate poverty in the USA? Why is it only the resppnsibility of the super rich? Or even just the rich? How bout the middle class? Isn’t it thier responsibility as well? Isn’t it responsible for EVERYONE who is not impoverished to then raise the standards for the poor. While idealistic this is simply carrying YOUR argument to a very logical conclusion. Point out my flaw please.

Yeah some people are born into wealth. Some people are born in the Sudan as well or in Nazi Germany. That is never going to change. This is randomness, it is entropy, it is what happens in a random world. Seriously Breeze come on and try to argue logically rather then in an emotional manner. Look, if you want to be bitter at those who have a leg up on you personally in life due to being born into it, or family wealth or something like that, then your destiny is one I pity. Guess what, tall people get better jobs then short people. Attractive people get more breaks then ugly people. Are all tall people assholes? Should they be taxed more?

So what I get from your answer is that the justification for higher taxes on only those who are wealthy is

a) Because many wealthy people are born into it and have unfair advantages, OR
b) Because many impoverished will stay that way and it is very hard to break through a poverty cycle. (however this only should apply to the US correct?) (I am just trying to get the facts stright)

**************

Let me go on. You said:

“All Obama proposes to do is to increase the marginal wages of the super-rich a few percentage points. It’s not nearly as big of a deal as all the faux conservatives/capitalists make it out to be.”

No Breeze this is not true. I have already seen my accountant to discuss this. Lets say for instance I make an engineers salary of 130k. Lets say I have a real estate business on the side, and I pull in another 100k. Lets say my real estate biz is an S corp and I pay myself just like any employee. So now lets just look at social security and medicare ONLY. Just those taxes alone. Right now we hit the limit on contributions to social security and medicare at say 100k. Just picking a nice easy number right? Now lets say the limits to social security and medicare are wiped out. So now on my engineers salary I would contribute 6.2% and 1.45% as an employee on 130k rather then 100k. That is 7.65% on 30k which is a little over $2000 bucks Breeze. Now lets look at the extra 100k I make working on weekends, nights, and any other free time. So now I pay an extra 7.45% on 100k which is $7450. Oh yeah, since my S corp pays me, the scorp has to contribute another $7450 as well. So lets see, we are now at about $17,000 and we haven’t touched marginal tax rate or cap gains as well Breeze. I don’t even make 250k!

So please check your numbers. One day perhaps you will own a small business or work two jobs and maybe you will see what I mean.

*******************

Finally I asked you:

“Why should you pay less the me?”

Your answer is, and I quote,

“Somebody’s got to pay and I’m of the opinion that the super-rich have not been paying their fair share and should pay more. Feel free to vote for McCain if you want to see more tax cuts for the super-wealthy”

Do you not get it Breeze? You have all of this ire and angst against the super wealthy or the wealthy or whoever has it better then you. Guess what, there will always be people wealthier then you. There will always be those born into family, those who catch breaks, those who cheat, those who are destined for lives of luxury. The basic tenet of 12 step programs are to let go of what you cannot control.

Look, I absolutely loathe the Paris Hiltons of the world, the Mozillo crooks, white collar thieves, and the like just as much as you do. Yet that is not a reason to draw an arbitrary line and force EVERYONE on one side of the line to support those on the other side of the line. It doesn’t work that way for so many reasons.

What we have RIGHT NOW is not fair. I don’t like the tax loopholes at all but they are there. Our tax code is poorly written, there is no doubt about that. Yet our difference of opinion is much less about the tax code and much more about basic ideology.

Forget about the candidates and the elections if you can. Just try to answer the question I posed in caps above.

[Author]

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