NY-er moving to SD- but where??

[bearishgurl]

+1 on your diatribe, scaredy.

You have a way of discussing this “elephant in the room” much more eloquently than I would be able to :=0

NYMom, being a self-professed “expert” on the conduct of passive aggressive people, I ALSO believe that it’s too much responsibility for you to take on in choosing a location in SoCal for your family to move over 3000 miles to when you know very little about it and your spouse is actually FROM SoCal. He should be having his brother (and his mom, if she is able) scouting out listings for him (or rental ads) and doing drive-bys for you. He should be coming here on interviews and getting hired so he knows where he will work first. Especially since you say he is “between jobs” and thus has time on his hands. You appear to be trying to “shoot from the hip” in search of something in four very populous counties that cannot be found (exactly as you envision it) in your price range.

Earlier today, I watched a promo video for Westchester County, NY, to get a “feel” for the environment there:

NYMom, I really can’t think of ANYPLACE in CA that is quite like the above video.

I agree with scaredy and CAR that you should hash this move out with your spouse (in front of a counselor if necessary) and get on the same page, by hook or crook, no matter what you decide to do. In your case, divorce would be much, much more expensive than an interstate move and our domestic courts in CA urban coastal counties have a minimum two-year wait for trial. In any case, CA law favors a 50/50 child custody timeshare between parents (if contested) and the courts prefer both parents working and filing income and expense declarations before they will issue permanent support orders. Suffice to say your life will change 180 degrees if you split up after moving here due to you both not being on the same page with one another. If this happens, you could lose your freedom to move back home (unless you want to go back alone) and your case could easily get drawn out for YEARS. Trust me when I say that you don’t want to go there!

‘Nuff scare tactics. You get the picture. Now, go make an appt with a counselor first thing tomorrow morning in your spouse’s presence and then have your spouse get on speakerphone with his LA-area relatives to talk to them about their ability to scout out your various housing options there. You can’t really do this very well from where you are.

If they have lived all their lives in SoCal, they’ll likely tell it to you straight what is available in the context of your “requirements.”

[scaredyclassic]

Man, how did people figure shit out before the internet?

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter] And there are way more trees in LA than in SD. It’s weird…people in San Diego seem to have something against trees. They cut them down every chance they get, probably because everything is on a hill here and the trees block the views. Some think trees are “dirty” because the leaves fall. Very strange…and sad, IMO.[/quote]

I agree.

There are more HOAs in San Diego. They like to trim… a job to do, monthly fees to collect.

I noticed that in newer cities, they trim trees a lot more… Irvine, San Diego, Dallas, etc.

The shopping centers like to keep things clear so people can see the signs.

I was in Pasadena not long ago. They have beautiful streets with oak canopies. In SD, developers plant cheap trees that are like Barbie doll trees.

I’m liking LA a lot more these days. I’m pretty mobile, so next year, I’ll look into moving to Hollywood. The area is gentrifying so I think it’s got a great future. there’s a metro.

Also, like you said, there’s a lot more money in LA. And a lot more to do.

[flyer]

I have to say I agree with those who have expressed it seems there may be something much deeper going on here, even though it may not appear so at this moment in time.

My wife and I, our kids, and extended family grew up in SoCal with the same strong family ties the OP mentioned having on the “other coast” and I can’t even imagine what it would have been like to leave all that. In our case, it just so happened our large family was all out here, and, for the most part, have stayed out here.

Hopefully, the “internal” truth of this matter will be revealed in one way or the other, and then the “external” issues should naturally fall into place.

[flyer]

Concerning the lifestyle in LA. Being an “insider,” my wife finds it interesting how the film business, once centered in LA and Hollywood, had mutated into a far more international platform than in past years–and that is changing the landscape of the cities themselves.

Right now, the focus for most film studios (major and independent) is China, where the box office take is projected to be in the billions in the near future and beyond, because they are building a mega number of new theaters, and most of our blockbusters play very well there.

As with all businesses, you have to follow the money, and although the US will always be a major contender, the international film market is already surpassing the domestic box office.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl]…In your case, divorce would be much, much more expensive than an interstate move and our domestic courts in CA urban coastal counties have a minimum two-year wait for trial. In any case, CA law favors a 50/50 child custody timeshare between parents (if contested) and the courts prefer both parents working and filing income and expense declarations before they will issue permanent support orders. Suffice to say your life will change 180 degrees if you split up after moving here due to you both not being on the same page with one another. If this happens, you could lose your freedom to move back home (unless you want to go back alone) and your case could easily get drawn out for YEARS. Trust me when I say that you don’t want to go there!
[/quote]

Excellent point, BG. This could end up being a HUGE deal where NYmom would lose, big time, if she were to move out here and subsequently divorce while in CA. She could find herself in a position where she might never again be able to have her kids and family in the same state, at least not full-time. Potentially giving up this right needs to be fully thought out before any decisions are made.

It sucks that some of us sound like Debbie Downers, but it’s this sort of gut-wrenching truth that can (hopefully) help people make fully informed decisions.

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

I agree.

There are more HOAs in San Diego. They like to trim… a job to do, monthly fees to collect.

I noticed that in newer cities, they trim trees a lot more… Irvine, San Diego, Dallas, etc.

The shopping centers like to keep things clear so people can see the signs.

I was in Pasadena not long ago. They have beautiful streets with oak canopies. In SD, developers plant cheap trees that are like Barbie doll trees.

I’m liking LA a lot more these days. I’m pretty mobile, so next year, I’ll look into moving to Hollywood. The area is gentrifying so I think it’s got a great future. there’s a metro.

Also, like you said, there’s a lot more money in LA. And a lot more to do.[/quote]

I think you’d do exceedingly well in LA, brian. As a single/childless person, you’d be hard-pressed to find a better place than LA (other than NYC). LA has an energy and sense of endless possibilities…SD doesn’t come anywhere close to it.

We were just up there again a couple of days ago, and the coffee shops are jammed at 11:00 p.m., and everyone is having interesting intellectual conversations. Down here, especially in our area, the coffee shops are dead by 4:00 p.m. and closed by 8:00 p.m. If you can manage to find people who are having a discussion, it’s usually about kids and other domestic stuff. 🙁

[flyer]

I have to agree that for a single person with no kids, LA has a lot to
offer–but it can also be a very “empty” place–without connections. We’ve known many who have come for the possibilities, and left completely unfulfilled, or even broken.

This is not to say this is or would be everyone’s experience, but, I guess, as in all things in life, it just depends on why you want to live there and what you are looking for. That said, since my wife works mostly from home, we do still enjoy going up for specific social or other events a couple of times a month or so.

I also think a person can create their own preferred environment wherever they choose to live. We entertain often, and have amazing conversations with amazing people, which often leads to amazing projects–so, even here–that end result is still possible.

[CA renter]

[quote=flyer]Concerning the lifestyle in LA. Being an “insider,” my wife finds it interesting how the film business, once centered in LA and Hollywood, had mutated into a far more international platform than in past years–and that is changing the landscape of the cities themselves.

Right now, the focus for most film studios (major and independent) is China, where the box office take is projected to be in the billions in the near future and beyond, because they are building a mega number of new theaters, and most of our blockbusters play very well there.

As with all businesses, you have to follow the money, and although the US will always be a major contender, the international film market is already surpassing the domestic box office.[/quote]

Definitely a concern up there.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=CA renter][quote=bearishgurl]…In your case, divorce would be much, much more expensive than an interstate move and our domestic courts in CA urban coastal counties have a minimum two-year wait for trial. In any case, CA law favors a 50/50 child custody timeshare between parents (if contested) and the courts prefer both parents working and filing income and expense declarations before they will issue permanent support orders. Suffice to say your life will change 180 degrees if you split up after moving here due to you both not being on the same page with one another. If this happens, you could lose your freedom to move back home (unless you want to go back alone) and your case could easily get drawn out for YEARS. Trust me when I say that you don’t want to go there!
[/quote]

Excellent point, BG. This could end up being a HUGE deal where NYmom would lose, big time, if she were to move out here and subsequently divorce while in CA. She could find herself in a position where she might never again be able to have her kids and family in the same state, at least not full-time. Potentially giving up this right needs to be fully thought out before any decisions are made.

It sucks that some of us sound like Debbie Downers, but it’s this sort of gut-wrenching truth that can (hopefully) help people make fully informed decisions.[/quote]

yeah, donald downers too. it’s not just women who can be downers. guys can be downers…

this would freak me out. i would not expect anyone to be happier post move than premove, and if he’s unhappy now, it’s not inconceivable he’ll b e unhappier later. maybe the problem isn’t the location, he reasons later, once he’s in the new location and finds himself no happier, maybe it’s this woman. then you’re the one trapped, just like he was “trapped” in NY. on the other hand, it really is terrible to emotionally negotiate and navigate witha legal compass such matters in what is theoretically at leasta completely 100% committed relationship. plotting and thinking about your next move within a legal framework ofrights and remedies sheesh. what kind of way is that to be married? you might as well be a litigant.

on the other ahnd, you’d be a fool not to think this through.

please dont take anything im saying as legal advice. consult with your own attorney versed in NY and CA family law in particular.

screw RE websites. go on one of those divorce chat groups and see if any alarm bells go off…

[Anonymous]

NY Mom,

Welcome to Piggington!

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter][LA has an energy and sense of endless possibilities…SD doesn’t come anywhere close to it. [/quote]

I fell out of love with San Diego. San Diego is still one of best cities to live in — comfortable, easy to live. But I fell out of love.

When I first came to San Diego in the late 80s as a young guy, I just loved it. I loved the weather and I loved how new and clean the city was.

Back in the late 80s, it was the tail end of the Reagan years, Bush 1st was just elected but he was carrying on the torch… It was the tail end of white flight to the suburbs. I was even a young Republican back then because being a Democrat seemed like being denier of American greatest… then Clinton came along.

I’ve since grown up. I’ve traveled the world.

Real estate wise, urban renewal was taking shape. New York City, Boston, DC, Chicago, San Francisco, old American cities were coming back. Now the urban cores have become more like European cities.

Horton Plaza (then an acclaimed open air mall) already existed… but little Italy was still a mix of warehouse buildings. Then in the 90s downtown redevelopment took hold. The mid 2000 boom years saw all the buildings rise downtown SD.

I’ve also learned a lot. I’ve become a real estate investor. I know that it takes to remodel a place — even to make an old place better than a new place.

In the end, it’s all about location, location, location. You want to be near what is current and exciting.

LA has a lot to offer. When I was younger, I didn’t like the grittiness of LA. But now, give me any old place and I can turn it into a nice bright modern comfortable home. I don’t have to live in squalor.

LA didn’t stand still over the last couple decades. The Grove came along. Then Americana. Century city redeveloped. Downtown too. Now Hollywood. It even has a Metro system that is expanding.

LA also has great located old houses that can be remade.

LA just has the depth of population and a critical mass that SD is lacking. It’s just a more exciting world-class city.

San Diego is a second tier city. Clean, quiet, easy to live, good to raise a family, go to bed early city. It depends what you priorities are.

The suburbs of NYC are very different. You can take the train into the City on the spur of the moment, find excitement, then take the train back.

We go through stages in life. It only seems reasonable that real estate should match up.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=CA renter]…It sucks that some of us sound like Debbie Downers, but it’s this sort of gut-wrenching truth that can (hopefully) help people make fully informed decisions.[/quote]yeah, donald downers too. it’s not just women who can be downers. guys can be downers…

this would freak me out. i would not expect anyone to be happier post move than premove, and if he’s unhappy now, it’s not inconceivable he’ll b e unhappier later. maybe the problem isn’t the location, he reasons later, once he’s in the new location and finds himself no happier, maybe it’s this woman. then you’re the one trapped, just like he was “trapped” in NY. on the other hand, it really is terrible to emotionally negotiate and navigate witha legal compass such matters in what is theoretically at leasta completely 100% committed relationship. plotting and thinking about your next move within a legal framework ofrights and remedies sheesh. what kind of way is that to be married? you might as well be a litigant.

on the other ahnd, you’d be a fool not to think this through.

please dont take anything im saying as legal advice. consult with your own attorney versed in NY and CA family law in particular.

screw RE websites. go on one of those divorce chat groups and see if any alarm bells go off…[/quote]

Yeah, ditto for me and make sure that chat room is a CA-based one!

I apologize here in that I DID likely sound like a “Debbie Downer.” I’ve just seen a LOT in my day, including one local domestic case that was litigated from 1999 thru 2012 and concluded two months before the subject child’s 18th birthday. One parent wanted another hearing but the judge dismissed the child’s court-appointed attorney (minor’s counsel) effective his 18th birthday. And these particular parents/parties were never married!

The truth about the CA domestic “justice” system is that it is based upon money, plain and simple. Whichever parent/party has the most earning capacity (meaning the most wherewithal to provide a stable home for their children over the long term and thus keep the children off government aid) “wins” (if one can call getting a higher percentage of child-custody timeshare away from the other parent “winning”). The higher earning party (payor of child support) is typically heavily counseled by their attorney to fight tooth and nail for as much child custody timeshare as they can get in order to avoid being ripped a new a$$hole (pardon the pun) in long-term child support obligations. This “counseling” will occur by the payor’s attorney even if the higher-earning party has never taken on any childcare duties thus far and/or travels for business regularly. The court may opine that he/she said payor is allowed to designate someone else to watch the children while he/she is away. This is more preferable to the payor than agreeing that the other parent/party can have more timeshare while they’re away because hiring temporary paid child care is much cheaper than having a higher long-term CS obligation which could be difficult and lengthy to get reduced unless their circumstances change dramatically (they lose their job, retire, become too ill to work, etc).

In short, CA child support awards are based upon the difference in the parents’ incomes in combination with the percentages awarded each parent of child-custody timeshare of the minor child(ren).

If one parent tells the court they have no income and are otherwise able-bodied, the court could very well impute an income to them and then set their CS award based upon the amount imputed against the payor’s income. More often than not, the higher-earning payor-party moves for such a ruling. In the court’s eyes, the presence of kids are NEVER an excuse for a parent not to work to bring in income if they have none of their own unless any of those kids are severely disabled and thus require constant care.

And I don’t know your state’s laws, NYMom, but CA has “no-fault dissolution” and after residing in CA just six months, your entire family will be under the jurisdiction of CA laws and CA will be considered the legal domicile of your children. In CA, either party can leave a marriage for any reason and the court will not ask and does not care. Therefore, there is no “injured party” who would be able to petition for (punitive) higher support due to the “fault” of the other party for disintegration of the marriage.

Based upon your posts, all of the above is why I think you and your spouse should both get on the exact same page and be able to stay there regarding housing choices and location before attempting to make a move anywhere.

[CA renter]

[quote=scaredyclassic]

yeah, donald downers too. it’s not just women who can be downers. guys can be downers…

this would freak me out. i would not expect anyone to be happier post move than premove, and if he’s unhappy now, it’s not inconceivable he’ll b e unhappier later. maybe the problem isn’t the location, he reasons later, once he’s in the new location and finds himself no happier, maybe it’s this woman. then you’re the one trapped, just like he was “trapped” in NY. on the other hand, it really is terrible to emotionally negotiate and navigate witha legal compass such matters in what is theoretically at leasta completely 100% committed relationship. plotting and thinking about your next move within a legal framework ofrights and remedies sheesh. what kind of way is that to be married? you might as well be a litigant.

on the other ahnd, you’d be a fool not to think this through.

please dont take anything im saying as legal advice. consult with your own attorney versed in NY and CA family law in particular.

screw RE websites. go on one of those divorce chat groups and see if any alarm bells go off…[/quote]

Yes, I was including you in our “Debbie Downer” club, but if you want to go with a more gender-correct name, we can do that, too. 😉

Hope we didn’t bum NYmom out, as she simply came here for housing advice, but the additional info she gave indicated that there were other issues that needed to be worked out before choosing a new house.

[njtosd]

FWIW – We spent 4 yrs in northern NJ (Morris Co.) after having lived here for ten years. Our whole family was unhappy and we returned to San Diego in 2011. On paper, NJ should have been perfect – husband had a great job, house was probably the nicest I’ll ever own (2 acre lot, huge house, towering oaks, foxes, deer – very idyllic). School and downtown quaint shopping district were walkable. Nonetheless we couldn’t wait to get out – we were miserable. I would attribute it to the culture – not sure how exactly to describe it. We now live in a house on a tiny lot and the shopping area is barely walkable but definitely not quaint. We are much happier. So – I can sympathize with the husband of NYMom. I can definitely see his point of view without there being an underlying problem motivating the move. Everyone should stop jumping to conclusions.

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