Minority population grows into California majority

[blahblahblah]

The beautiful irony of all this is that the over-educated Asian’s will all end up working for some lazy caucasian with an MBA.

If only. Many management positions are headed overseas as well. Many MBAs (especially the ones working for big companies) aren’t creative enough to think of any way to grow a business, so they just implement “cost-cutting” measures (outsourcing to China & India, etc…) to increase profit and grow the share price instead. As a result, the heart of many companies has relocated overseas, and guess what — the head is soon to follow. American managers can’t manage foreign assets effectively because of timezone problems, communication issues, etc… Is the solution to hire more Americans then? Of course not, the solution is to move management to India and China and limit American operations to marketing and sales.

[drunkle]

there used to be a ceiling on asian undergrads at ucla. ie., a max quota.

if alternative methods of arithimetic were taught, but the “show your work” requirement were still there, would it make a difference? of course. the short cuts are not being taught in the context, that’s all. but if you remember the rules regarding fractions, percents and decimals, you know that you can do the arithmetic manipulations. it’s applying those manipulations in order to create shortcuts that is not pointed out. ie., application and logic.

it’s surprising to see the percentage black population is so relatively low. i guess the crack/aids epidemics did their jobs.

[drunkle]

there used to be a ceiling on asian undergrads at ucla. ie., a max quota.

if alternative methods of arithimetic were taught, but the “show your work” requirement were still there, would it make a difference? of course. the short cuts are not being taught in the context, that’s all. but if you remember the rules regarding fractions, percents and decimals, you know that you can do the arithmetic manipulations. it’s applying those manipulations in order to create shortcuts that is not pointed out. ie., application and logic.

it’s surprising to see the percentage black population is so relatively low. i guess the crack/aids epidemics did their jobs.

[an]

drunkle, I concur. There was such thing called affirmative action. It was supposed to help other minorities but end up hurting the Asian students. I know people who had great grades, great SAT score and did a lot of extra curricular activities but was rejected from some UC school because there was enough Asian there already. Luckily, it was abolished.

Regarding alternative methods, I concur as well. However, it would help even more if they’re forced to do everything in their head. The more you practice that, the faster you become. That’s how people from overseas can do those calculation so quickly in their head. It’s through years of practice. When you make students show their work, you’re basically slow their thinking down because they have to write it down. Which would then limit their thinking to one calculation at a time.

[an]

drunkle, I concur. There was such thing called affirmative action. It was supposed to help other minorities but end up hurting the Asian students. I know people who had great grades, great SAT score and did a lot of extra curricular activities but was rejected from some UC school because there was enough Asian there already. Luckily, it was abolished.

Regarding alternative methods, I concur as well. However, it would help even more if they’re forced to do everything in their head. The more you practice that, the faster you become. That’s how people from overseas can do those calculation so quickly in their head. It’s through years of practice. When you make students show their work, you’re basically slow their thinking down because they have to write it down. Which would then limit their thinking to one calculation at a time.

[kewp]

You know, you guys can’t have it both ways!

If domestic jobs are getting outsourced, thats gonna hit domestic asian job seekers just as hard as anybody. Especially those in the IT jobs that can be most easily sent overseas.

[kewp]

You know, you guys can’t have it both ways!

If domestic jobs are getting outsourced, thats gonna hit domestic asian job seekers just as hard as anybody. Especially those in the IT jobs that can be most easily sent overseas.

[Cow_tipping]

Yea it will frock the IT job market locally and it actually has already done it. Which is why I say that we will not return to 97 prices for houses, we will drop waaaaaay beyond that. There were atleast 2-3 million more IT jobs in CA in 97 than there are now. And that is conservative. Remember these are high paid jobs – easily pushing 75K.
However as the IT market here tanks, my colleagues (I am an Injun IT engineer too BTW) as promptly dumping their upside down house back to the bank and walking with their credit dinged … but who cares, they are going to their new life In india where credit history here has no reach.
However 2-3 things are happening.
1. Companies in India dont pay more for IT and less for other engineers. because the govt does not do that, and many IT firms are all arms of other industrial giants and they pay ~ the same for a grade 2 engineer be it mechanical or civil or software. So rampant inflation all around.
2. They can work in India for $20 an hour because there have been no lay off’s no firings no nothing. A job was yours for life till you decide and move on. With american style lay off’s comming and it has begun to hit there too, people are going to stop working for peanuts.
3. We would never consider moving houses. In my life (20 years) in India I have maybe seen 2-3 people move from city to city after they have had kids etc. they move all the time but usually its 2-3 streets away or one suburb to the other. Face it, moving costs $$, it resets your cost of living (like losing your rent control house) and it creates a sense of resentment in people so they want more $$$.
4. Rupee (indian currency) has gained vs USD ~20% in the last 5 years, and 10% in the last 1 year.
5. Soon it will not make economic sense any more to out source. The good IT engineers are about to start costing the same in US or in India cos they are looking at europe as a viable option too.
Outsourcing is about to die a slow and painful death right on the heels of the house bubble. USD getting wortless, houses costing less and less, rents dropping and eventually wage deflation is about to occour in the US and will make outsourcing to India obsolete.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.

[Cow_tipping]

Yea it will frock the IT job market locally and it actually has already done it. Which is why I say that we will not return to 97 prices for houses, we will drop waaaaaay beyond that. There were atleast 2-3 million more IT jobs in CA in 97 than there are now. And that is conservative. Remember these are high paid jobs – easily pushing 75K.
However as the IT market here tanks, my colleagues (I am an Injun IT engineer too BTW) as promptly dumping their upside down house back to the bank and walking with their credit dinged … but who cares, they are going to their new life In india where credit history here has no reach.
However 2-3 things are happening.
1. Companies in India dont pay more for IT and less for other engineers. because the govt does not do that, and many IT firms are all arms of other industrial giants and they pay ~ the same for a grade 2 engineer be it mechanical or civil or software. So rampant inflation all around.
2. They can work in India for $20 an hour because there have been no lay off’s no firings no nothing. A job was yours for life till you decide and move on. With american style lay off’s comming and it has begun to hit there too, people are going to stop working for peanuts.
3. We would never consider moving houses. In my life (20 years) in India I have maybe seen 2-3 people move from city to city after they have had kids etc. they move all the time but usually its 2-3 streets away or one suburb to the other. Face it, moving costs $$, it resets your cost of living (like losing your rent control house) and it creates a sense of resentment in people so they want more $$$.
4. Rupee (indian currency) has gained vs USD ~20% in the last 5 years, and 10% in the last 1 year.
5. Soon it will not make economic sense any more to out source. The good IT engineers are about to start costing the same in US or in India cos they are looking at europe as a viable option too.
Outsourcing is about to die a slow and painful death right on the heels of the house bubble. USD getting wortless, houses costing less and less, rents dropping and eventually wage deflation is about to occour in the US and will make outsourcing to India obsolete.
Cool.
Cow_tipping.

[Coronita]

You know, you guys can't have it both ways!

If domestic jobs are getting outsourced, thats gonna hit domestic asian job seekers just as hard as anybody. Especially those in the IT jobs that can be most easily sent overseas.

 

…Unless your skills are better than others…. Or you work for a company that requires some 2nd language to bridge gaps.

Sorry Kewp, but unless you haven't noticed, some of the successful companies tech companies here in San Diego are run by foreigners or have foreign roots. Also, in tech field there’s a high probability your next boss/employer will be asian (like it or not). Simply because, these companies overseas are outgrowing and outperforming our domestic counterparts. Like someone previously alluded to Huawei is giving Cisco's run for the money, most electronics are made in China, and most software or a good portion of it is made in india.

As far as your MBA analogy. I'm really lost. Because actually I have a lot of relatives and buddies that graduated from Wharton, Stanford, Harvard…And usually top 10 mba's don't end up working at these normal companies in marketing or sales unless they totally foobared their MBA degree or want an easier life/family constraints….The big bucks are over on Wall Street, VC's, LBO shops, Management Consulting (Mckinsey,Bain,BCG), hedge funds, or computational finance on W.S.. And in those jobs, you can't suck at math period….(BTW: a good portion of these hires are computational finance/risk analysis/etc are indians/asians/russians/eastern europeans because of their computation abilities. Hedge funds also hire a good portion of these folks)

 

…..And if you're not in the top 10 mba's, it's pretty useless for these positions, because they won’t talk to you..You’re stuck with the traditional marketing/sales positions at a company…and really isn't significant enough to really be considering it to be your primary source of income imho. Last time I checked, none of the schools in local San Diego would i consider to have any relevant MBA program that would really make any significant salary differential. And talking to folks from USD, UCSD, SDSU who gave me what numbers they are seeing, seemed to confirm that. (Was considering an MBA here locally, but it wouldn’t really add value to what I currently do, and really wouldn’t open doors to things that would offer significant higher pay).

You have to understand what happened during the dot bomb..A lot of non-techies became techies, and then were pushed out because their skills really sucked. Then they went to go get their MBAs, so there's a flood of MBAs at all sorts of levels. Most of them are pretty useless. The only place where I see them add merit are at companies that stick to formality (typically defense companies)…But no one in their right mind would work at those companies because the pay in those companies suck overall…..I have nothing against MBAs. But just having one doesn't mean much these days unless you actually do something with it. And while you could probably learn some things from the program, I would say in general you could learn from everything whether you really had one or not. Plenty of immigrants I know here that run companies and businesses without an MBAs, and they significantly better than you and I ever will be.

 

[Coronita]

You know, you guys can't have it both ways!

If domestic jobs are getting outsourced, thats gonna hit domestic asian job seekers just as hard as anybody. Especially those in the IT jobs that can be most easily sent overseas.

 

…Unless your skills are better than others…. Or you work for a company that requires some 2nd language to bridge gaps.

Sorry Kewp, but unless you haven't noticed, some of the successful companies tech companies here in San Diego are run by foreigners or have foreign roots. Also, in tech field there’s a high probability your next boss/employer will be asian (like it or not). Simply because, these companies overseas are outgrowing and outperforming our domestic counterparts. Like someone previously alluded to Huawei is giving Cisco's run for the money, most electronics are made in China, and most software or a good portion of it is made in india.

As far as your MBA analogy. I'm really lost. Because actually I have a lot of relatives and buddies that graduated from Wharton, Stanford, Harvard…And usually top 10 mba's don't end up working at these normal companies in marketing or sales unless they totally foobared their MBA degree or want an easier life/family constraints….The big bucks are over on Wall Street, VC's, LBO shops, Management Consulting (Mckinsey,Bain,BCG), hedge funds, or computational finance on W.S.. And in those jobs, you can't suck at math period….(BTW: a good portion of these hires are computational finance/risk analysis/etc are indians/asians/russians/eastern europeans because of their computation abilities. Hedge funds also hire a good portion of these folks)

 

…..And if you're not in the top 10 mba's, it's pretty useless for these positions, because they won’t talk to you..You’re stuck with the traditional marketing/sales positions at a company…and really isn't significant enough to really be considering it to be your primary source of income imho. Last time I checked, none of the schools in local San Diego would i consider to have any relevant MBA program that would really make any significant salary differential. And talking to folks from USD, UCSD, SDSU who gave me what numbers they are seeing, seemed to confirm that. (Was considering an MBA here locally, but it wouldn’t really add value to what I currently do, and really wouldn’t open doors to things that would offer significant higher pay).

You have to understand what happened during the dot bomb..A lot of non-techies became techies, and then were pushed out because their skills really sucked. Then they went to go get their MBAs, so there's a flood of MBAs at all sorts of levels. Most of them are pretty useless. The only place where I see them add merit are at companies that stick to formality (typically defense companies)…But no one in their right mind would work at those companies because the pay in those companies suck overall…..I have nothing against MBAs. But just having one doesn't mean much these days unless you actually do something with it. And while you could probably learn some things from the program, I would say in general you could learn from everything whether you really had one or not. Plenty of immigrants I know here that run companies and businesses without an MBAs, and they significantly better than you and I ever will be.

 

[kewp]

Re:Cow_tipping

Can’t say I disagree with you! My only comment is that in my limited experience with outsourcing to India, they in turn were outsourcing to China! Unless you are on the bottom of the food chain getting outsourced will always be a risk.

Re:Fat_lazy_union…

That post was somewhat tongue in cheek, as I have little use for MBA’s myself. I will comment that working in higher education that yes the engineering depts are dominated by asian students. One should also keep in mind that globally, asians dominate the world population. If anything, they should be better represented in the global marketplace than they currently are.

However, in my experience the asian kids are in engineering because they believe its a lucrative career path and/or they are pressured by their parents. Lots of grade-grubbin, not alot of passion for the subject matter. This is in turn reflected by the higher rates of depression and suicide amongst this population.

But something I’ve noticed is that the real stars, the kids that love the work, are creative and challenge myself and my staff to keep up, are *exclusively* white-bread ‘mericans. They may be a minority, but its these kids that are going on to found the next Microsoft, Intel and Google. And going to be hiring lots of asian worker-bees to work for them!

I’ll feel otherwise when I’m using an Indian Operating system running on a Chinese microprocessor.

As for the ‘no one in their right mind’ comment, well I guess I’m insane then. I’ve chosen a job that I love, with great stability, benefits, and ton’s of perks. I walk to work, set my own hours, telecommute often and dress how I want. Sure, the pay ain’t great, but being crazy I’m going to suggest that money isn’t everything. I have a high quality of life and am making a genuine positive difference in the world.

I guess I could go work in Manhattan for a hedge fund and make six figures stealing money from old people, but to me immorality isn’t something to be associated with a ‘right mind’.

Food for thought!

[kewp]

Re:Cow_tipping

Can’t say I disagree with you! My only comment is that in my limited experience with outsourcing to India, they in turn were outsourcing to China! Unless you are on the bottom of the food chain getting outsourced will always be a risk.

Re:Fat_lazy_union…

That post was somewhat tongue in cheek, as I have little use for MBA’s myself. I will comment that working in higher education that yes the engineering depts are dominated by asian students. One should also keep in mind that globally, asians dominate the world population. If anything, they should be better represented in the global marketplace than they currently are.

However, in my experience the asian kids are in engineering because they believe its a lucrative career path and/or they are pressured by their parents. Lots of grade-grubbin, not alot of passion for the subject matter. This is in turn reflected by the higher rates of depression and suicide amongst this population.

But something I’ve noticed is that the real stars, the kids that love the work, are creative and challenge myself and my staff to keep up, are *exclusively* white-bread ‘mericans. They may be a minority, but its these kids that are going on to found the next Microsoft, Intel and Google. And going to be hiring lots of asian worker-bees to work for them!

I’ll feel otherwise when I’m using an Indian Operating system running on a Chinese microprocessor.

As for the ‘no one in their right mind’ comment, well I guess I’m insane then. I’ve chosen a job that I love, with great stability, benefits, and ton’s of perks. I walk to work, set my own hours, telecommute often and dress how I want. Sure, the pay ain’t great, but being crazy I’m going to suggest that money isn’t everything. I have a high quality of life and am making a genuine positive difference in the world.

I guess I could go work in Manhattan for a hedge fund and make six figures stealing money from old people, but to me immorality isn’t something to be associated with a ‘right mind’.

Food for thought!

[an]

However, in my experience the asian kids are in engineering because they believe its a lucrative career path and/or they are pressured by their parents. Lots of grade-grubbin, not alot of passion for the subject matter. This is in turn reflected by the higher rates of depression and suicide amongst this population.
I’ll have to disagree with this. I’m Asian and an engineer. Many if my friends are Asian and engineers as well. We weren’t pressured by our parents to be engineers. We were pressured by our parents to get higher education. They feel that education will open doors, but nothing specific to engineering. Most of us 2nd generation Asians who become engineers because we love it. We can very well study finance and get our MBA and make much more money, but we chose engineering because that’s our passion. I don’t know where you get depression and suicide from, but I don’t see that and most people I know are Asians who are engineers.

I’ll feel otherwise when I’m using an Indian Operating system running on a Chinese microprocessor.
Oh, but you are. I’m sure most of the development done on Windows OS are done by Indian engineers and most of the CPU that run those OS are made in China. It takes time to be #1 but it will happen. Just look at which company is now #1 automaker in the world. It’s the passionless Asian company.

[an]

However, in my experience the asian kids are in engineering because they believe its a lucrative career path and/or they are pressured by their parents. Lots of grade-grubbin, not alot of passion for the subject matter. This is in turn reflected by the higher rates of depression and suicide amongst this population.
I’ll have to disagree with this. I’m Asian and an engineer. Many if my friends are Asian and engineers as well. We weren’t pressured by our parents to be engineers. We were pressured by our parents to get higher education. They feel that education will open doors, but nothing specific to engineering. Most of us 2nd generation Asians who become engineers because we love it. We can very well study finance and get our MBA and make much more money, but we chose engineering because that’s our passion. I don’t know where you get depression and suicide from, but I don’t see that and most people I know are Asians who are engineers.

I’ll feel otherwise when I’m using an Indian Operating system running on a Chinese microprocessor.
Oh, but you are. I’m sure most of the development done on Windows OS are done by Indian engineers and most of the CPU that run those OS are made in China. It takes time to be #1 but it will happen. Just look at which company is now #1 automaker in the world. It’s the passionless Asian company.

[Author]

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