Housing won’t hit bottom ’til 2012

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Can you give some specific examples of these “micro areas” where you think the bottom as passed?[/quote]

deadzone, I haven’t studied the incidences of Trustees Deeds being recorded, incidences of successfully-closed short-sales, incidences of REOs sold or incidences of owners being underwater in a particular “micro market,” but suffice to say, if owners that can wait for a better day to sell in your chosen “micro market,” they certainly will.

If you are in the market to purchase residential property and want to determine if the bottom is past (or now here), I would first determine the exact subdivision or micro area (if a “custom-built area) I was interested in and then conduct the above studies for myself, taking into account the total amount of residential units built in your “micro area.” If the majority of the recent “sold” comps are being generated from nearby “distress” sales and/or there are four or more Trustees Deeds recorded in the last six months per 100 properties in your micro area of choice (=>4%), then there may still be bit of “froth” in current sellers’ asking prices if they do not conform to the (very) local market realities.

OTOH, if you are interested in purchasing in an area where there are few recent sold comps due to lack of inventory and the area/subdivision is more than 33 years old, I would buy a plat map from the County Assessor for $2 a page and check its APN numbers against the assessor’s tax payment website for the prevalence of Prop 13 owners still on the tax rolls (existing owners, whether residing in the property or not). If the prevalence of “Prop 13 owners” is => than 20% and there are very few sales in the last ten years, then it is very possible that the owners there don’t NEED to sell in this “down-market” and can wait for a better day.

Regardless of Prop 13 status (affordable taxes), the biggest indicator that the asking prices may be too high in a particular area is a large percentage of local owners have encumbrances equal to or more than what their property is worth. This could signal future distress sales/walkaways, spelling an erosion of your own future property value AFTER purchase.

In all cases, I would closely study the comparable “solds” of my target property on SDLookup or other site which has sales history of a listed/sold property of close neighbors’ purchase prices in the last ten years (even if not currently in default) to determine if an asking price is too much.

If your desired property is situated in a micro-area which is more than 50 years old, I believe that after you conduct the above “exercises,” you may be shocked to learn than a very slim minority of owners there are currently in the “need to sell ASAP” category. In this case, if the seller of your desired property can’t get what they think is a fair price in accordance with their location and overall condition in comparison with the few recent sold comps that are currently available, they have the option of taking it off the market and waiting for a “better day.” Many of these older areas are VERY stable and have already “hit bottom.”[/quote]

But you’re assuming that this is a “down” market. Many of us would say this is a very good market for sellers because bubble/artificially high prices are still being propped up by the govt/Fed.

The prices seen in the 2002-present period were/are the result of a **credit bubble** and subsequent govt/Fed intervention. There is no reason to believe 2004 or 2005 prices were “real” or based on fundamentals in any way.

Sellers do not determine price, willing and able buyers do. It is not foreclosures that are determining today’s prices, it’s the manipulation of the Fed/govt that is driving prices. If not for their interventions, prices would be much lower than they are now…and that would be their FUNDAMENTAL value.

Everyone is too focused on foreclosures, rather than focusing on future buyers and their willingness/ability to pay current prices.

It’s also the case that most home sales happen because people want/need to move. In normal circumstances, people don’t sell just because the market is good or bad; they sell because their family is getting larger/smaller, they get a new job, have health problems, a death in the family, they move into a nursing facility, or to be near their children or grandchildren, etc. These owners with paid-off properties have the luxury of being able to sell in ANY market, because they will likely net far more than what they paid for the house.

I’ve had to sell both of my parents’ houses and properties when they died, and had no problem undercutting everyone else around them. I was not wed to bubble prices because everything was paid off, and I wanted to deal with everything as quickly and efficiently as possible. People have this strange tendency to believe that heirs have some kind of attachment to a house, and that they wouldn’t be willing to sell for market price, but that’s totally untrue in most cases I’m aware of.

Let’s make one thing perfectly clear: This is a seller’s market. There is NOTHING about this market that favors buyers.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]So why risk it? The downside risk clearly outweighs the upside.
(sdr need not reply with his “my home is not an investment” lecture, heard it 1000 times before).[/quote]

deadzone, FWIW, I’m not currently active in RE sales. No one here is telling potential Pigg-buyers that they shouldn’t sit on the fence if they wish to. It’s a free country. But if you have your sights set on an area with little to no distress and are waiting a few months/years to buy in hopes the prices will go down, GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

Just don’t come back whining that the prices are still too high and/or interest rates are too high in 2012 (or whenever you decide to jump off the fence and get serious about buying).

Did you ever stop to think that future price and/or mtg interest rate could make it HARDER than it is today to purchase the same property in 2012 and beyond??[/quote]

This is *exactly* what some of us think, and it means that the buyer pool will be much smaller when it happens beacause more people will be “priced out” if interest rates rise…which will lead to lower prices.

You can’t price the buyers out of the market…they ARE the market!

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]So why risk it? The downside risk clearly outweighs the upside.
(sdr need not reply with his “my home is not an investment” lecture, heard it 1000 times before).[/quote]

deadzone, FWIW, I’m not currently active in RE sales. No one here is telling potential Pigg-buyers that they shouldn’t sit on the fence if they wish to. It’s a free country. But if you have your sights set on an area with little to no distress and are waiting a few months/years to buy in hopes the prices will go down, GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

Just don’t come back whining that the prices are still too high and/or interest rates are too high in 2012 (or whenever you decide to jump off the fence and get serious about buying).

Did you ever stop to think that future price and/or mtg interest rate could make it HARDER than it is today to purchase the same property in 2012 and beyond??[/quote]

This is *exactly* what some of us think, and it means that the buyer pool will be much smaller when it happens beacause more people will be “priced out” if interest rates rise…which will lead to lower prices.

You can’t price the buyers out of the market…they ARE the market!

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]So why risk it? The downside risk clearly outweighs the upside.
(sdr need not reply with his “my home is not an investment” lecture, heard it 1000 times before).[/quote]

deadzone, FWIW, I’m not currently active in RE sales. No one here is telling potential Pigg-buyers that they shouldn’t sit on the fence if they wish to. It’s a free country. But if you have your sights set on an area with little to no distress and are waiting a few months/years to buy in hopes the prices will go down, GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

Just don’t come back whining that the prices are still too high and/or interest rates are too high in 2012 (or whenever you decide to jump off the fence and get serious about buying).

Did you ever stop to think that future price and/or mtg interest rate could make it HARDER than it is today to purchase the same property in 2012 and beyond??[/quote]

This is *exactly* what some of us think, and it means that the buyer pool will be much smaller when it happens beacause more people will be “priced out” if interest rates rise…which will lead to lower prices.

You can’t price the buyers out of the market…they ARE the market!

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]So why risk it? The downside risk clearly outweighs the upside.
(sdr need not reply with his “my home is not an investment” lecture, heard it 1000 times before).[/quote]

deadzone, FWIW, I’m not currently active in RE sales. No one here is telling potential Pigg-buyers that they shouldn’t sit on the fence if they wish to. It’s a free country. But if you have your sights set on an area with little to no distress and are waiting a few months/years to buy in hopes the prices will go down, GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

Just don’t come back whining that the prices are still too high and/or interest rates are too high in 2012 (or whenever you decide to jump off the fence and get serious about buying).

Did you ever stop to think that future price and/or mtg interest rate could make it HARDER than it is today to purchase the same property in 2012 and beyond??[/quote]

This is *exactly* what some of us think, and it means that the buyer pool will be much smaller when it happens beacause more people will be “priced out” if interest rates rise…which will lead to lower prices.

You can’t price the buyers out of the market…they ARE the market!

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]So why risk it? The downside risk clearly outweighs the upside.
(sdr need not reply with his “my home is not an investment” lecture, heard it 1000 times before).[/quote]

deadzone, FWIW, I’m not currently active in RE sales. No one here is telling potential Pigg-buyers that they shouldn’t sit on the fence if they wish to. It’s a free country. But if you have your sights set on an area with little to no distress and are waiting a few months/years to buy in hopes the prices will go down, GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

Just don’t come back whining that the prices are still too high and/or interest rates are too high in 2012 (or whenever you decide to jump off the fence and get serious about buying).

Did you ever stop to think that future price and/or mtg interest rate could make it HARDER than it is today to purchase the same property in 2012 and beyond??[/quote]

This is *exactly* what some of us think, and it means that the buyer pool will be much smaller when it happens beacause more people will be “priced out” if interest rates rise…which will lead to lower prices.

You can’t price the buyers out of the market…they ARE the market!

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Regarding the lower pricing I am seeing in La Jolla, it is a combination of all cases. There are some short sales, some foreclosures, and in some cases long time residents (presumably way above water) who are finally waking up to reality that they have to lower their asking prices significantly if they want to sell.[/quote]

Why do these “way above water long time residents” in LJ have to lower their asking prices significantly if they wish to sell? Are there short-sale closings and foreclosures on their street? What’s keeping these longtime owners from withdrawing their current listing and waiting for a “better day?”

I maintain that the way above water sellers you speak of who feel they MUST reduce in order to sell MUST SELL NOW for a REASON during a time when nearby lower sold comps are affecting the value of their properties. Those nearby lower sold comps are lower for a REASON. What are those REASONS, deadzone??

If you knew these answers as well as what the likelihood was that this scenario would continue to “play out” in a “micro-area,” then you might be able to determine if now would be a good time to buy in that area.[/quote]

Because they need or want to sell. It really is that simple. If buyers aren’t willing to pay their price, then their price is too high.

As to why a neighboring property might have sold for less…it’s because nobody was willing to pay more for it. If somebody wants to sell something, they have to price it to sell. For example, I can put ads online and in all the newspapers listing my dusty minivan for $200K. Just because I listed it for $200K doesn’t make it worth $200K (and just because, once upon a time, some idiot was willing to use someone else’s money to pay $200K for a similar vehicle…doesn’t make MY dusty minivan worth that price, either). In any given market, it is the buyers who determine price. Always.

They have to lower their prices because *smart buyers* know that the prices of this past decade were driven by idiot borrowers (and lenders) who were agreeing to pay prices they could NEVER afford. Just as some sellers think that today’s prices are driven by “distressed” properties, buyers know that the high prices since 2001 were driven by idiot buyers who thought “real estate only goes up,” and who over-leveraged themselves to the point that these foreclosures became inevitable.

Just because a particular neighborhood didn’t see a lot of sales during the credit bubble does NOT mean the prices of those homes weren’t affected by the mania. Even if 1 out of 2 sales were to people who were willing to overpay (and there were PLENTY of people buying in the $800K++ range with “exotic” mortgages), that’s half the market! Prices in neighboring areas (San Diego, in general) during the bubble absolutely affected other areas nearby. Just like that one foreclosure down the street can affect prices, one sale to an overleveraged, idiot buyer affected what neighboring owners thought their houses were worth. The market does not exist in a vacuum, no matter how “special” an area is.

The foreclosures and short sales are happening because those very same buyers who were overpaying during the bubble are now being taken out (but you never hear these neighboring owners admit that the peak sales to overleveraged speculators shouldn’t count, they only think the “distressed” sales shouldn’t count…one is the mirror image of the other). All of it needs to be unwound.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Regarding the lower pricing I am seeing in La Jolla, it is a combination of all cases. There are some short sales, some foreclosures, and in some cases long time residents (presumably way above water) who are finally waking up to reality that they have to lower their asking prices significantly if they want to sell.[/quote]

Why do these “way above water long time residents” in LJ have to lower their asking prices significantly if they wish to sell? Are there short-sale closings and foreclosures on their street? What’s keeping these longtime owners from withdrawing their current listing and waiting for a “better day?”

I maintain that the way above water sellers you speak of who feel they MUST reduce in order to sell MUST SELL NOW for a REASON during a time when nearby lower sold comps are affecting the value of their properties. Those nearby lower sold comps are lower for a REASON. What are those REASONS, deadzone??

If you knew these answers as well as what the likelihood was that this scenario would continue to “play out” in a “micro-area,” then you might be able to determine if now would be a good time to buy in that area.[/quote]

Because they need or want to sell. It really is that simple. If buyers aren’t willing to pay their price, then their price is too high.

As to why a neighboring property might have sold for less…it’s because nobody was willing to pay more for it. If somebody wants to sell something, they have to price it to sell. For example, I can put ads online and in all the newspapers listing my dusty minivan for $200K. Just because I listed it for $200K doesn’t make it worth $200K (and just because, once upon a time, some idiot was willing to use someone else’s money to pay $200K for a similar vehicle…doesn’t make MY dusty minivan worth that price, either). In any given market, it is the buyers who determine price. Always.

They have to lower their prices because *smart buyers* know that the prices of this past decade were driven by idiot borrowers (and lenders) who were agreeing to pay prices they could NEVER afford. Just as some sellers think that today’s prices are driven by “distressed” properties, buyers know that the high prices since 2001 were driven by idiot buyers who thought “real estate only goes up,” and who over-leveraged themselves to the point that these foreclosures became inevitable.

Just because a particular neighborhood didn’t see a lot of sales during the credit bubble does NOT mean the prices of those homes weren’t affected by the mania. Even if 1 out of 2 sales were to people who were willing to overpay (and there were PLENTY of people buying in the $800K++ range with “exotic” mortgages), that’s half the market! Prices in neighboring areas (San Diego, in general) during the bubble absolutely affected other areas nearby. Just like that one foreclosure down the street can affect prices, one sale to an overleveraged, idiot buyer affected what neighboring owners thought their houses were worth. The market does not exist in a vacuum, no matter how “special” an area is.

The foreclosures and short sales are happening because those very same buyers who were overpaying during the bubble are now being taken out (but you never hear these neighboring owners admit that the peak sales to overleveraged speculators shouldn’t count, they only think the “distressed” sales shouldn’t count…one is the mirror image of the other). All of it needs to be unwound.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Regarding the lower pricing I am seeing in La Jolla, it is a combination of all cases. There are some short sales, some foreclosures, and in some cases long time residents (presumably way above water) who are finally waking up to reality that they have to lower their asking prices significantly if they want to sell.[/quote]

Why do these “way above water long time residents” in LJ have to lower their asking prices significantly if they wish to sell? Are there short-sale closings and foreclosures on their street? What’s keeping these longtime owners from withdrawing their current listing and waiting for a “better day?”

I maintain that the way above water sellers you speak of who feel they MUST reduce in order to sell MUST SELL NOW for a REASON during a time when nearby lower sold comps are affecting the value of their properties. Those nearby lower sold comps are lower for a REASON. What are those REASONS, deadzone??

If you knew these answers as well as what the likelihood was that this scenario would continue to “play out” in a “micro-area,” then you might be able to determine if now would be a good time to buy in that area.[/quote]

Because they need or want to sell. It really is that simple. If buyers aren’t willing to pay their price, then their price is too high.

As to why a neighboring property might have sold for less…it’s because nobody was willing to pay more for it. If somebody wants to sell something, they have to price it to sell. For example, I can put ads online and in all the newspapers listing my dusty minivan for $200K. Just because I listed it for $200K doesn’t make it worth $200K (and just because, once upon a time, some idiot was willing to use someone else’s money to pay $200K for a similar vehicle…doesn’t make MY dusty minivan worth that price, either). In any given market, it is the buyers who determine price. Always.

They have to lower their prices because *smart buyers* know that the prices of this past decade were driven by idiot borrowers (and lenders) who were agreeing to pay prices they could NEVER afford. Just as some sellers think that today’s prices are driven by “distressed” properties, buyers know that the high prices since 2001 were driven by idiot buyers who thought “real estate only goes up,” and who over-leveraged themselves to the point that these foreclosures became inevitable.

Just because a particular neighborhood didn’t see a lot of sales during the credit bubble does NOT mean the prices of those homes weren’t affected by the mania. Even if 1 out of 2 sales were to people who were willing to overpay (and there were PLENTY of people buying in the $800K++ range with “exotic” mortgages), that’s half the market! Prices in neighboring areas (San Diego, in general) during the bubble absolutely affected other areas nearby. Just like that one foreclosure down the street can affect prices, one sale to an overleveraged, idiot buyer affected what neighboring owners thought their houses were worth. The market does not exist in a vacuum, no matter how “special” an area is.

The foreclosures and short sales are happening because those very same buyers who were overpaying during the bubble are now being taken out (but you never hear these neighboring owners admit that the peak sales to overleveraged speculators shouldn’t count, they only think the “distressed” sales shouldn’t count…one is the mirror image of the other). All of it needs to be unwound.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Regarding the lower pricing I am seeing in La Jolla, it is a combination of all cases. There are some short sales, some foreclosures, and in some cases long time residents (presumably way above water) who are finally waking up to reality that they have to lower their asking prices significantly if they want to sell.[/quote]

Why do these “way above water long time residents” in LJ have to lower their asking prices significantly if they wish to sell? Are there short-sale closings and foreclosures on their street? What’s keeping these longtime owners from withdrawing their current listing and waiting for a “better day?”

I maintain that the way above water sellers you speak of who feel they MUST reduce in order to sell MUST SELL NOW for a REASON during a time when nearby lower sold comps are affecting the value of their properties. Those nearby lower sold comps are lower for a REASON. What are those REASONS, deadzone??

If you knew these answers as well as what the likelihood was that this scenario would continue to “play out” in a “micro-area,” then you might be able to determine if now would be a good time to buy in that area.[/quote]

Because they need or want to sell. It really is that simple. If buyers aren’t willing to pay their price, then their price is too high.

As to why a neighboring property might have sold for less…it’s because nobody was willing to pay more for it. If somebody wants to sell something, they have to price it to sell. For example, I can put ads online and in all the newspapers listing my dusty minivan for $200K. Just because I listed it for $200K doesn’t make it worth $200K (and just because, once upon a time, some idiot was willing to use someone else’s money to pay $200K for a similar vehicle…doesn’t make MY dusty minivan worth that price, either). In any given market, it is the buyers who determine price. Always.

They have to lower their prices because *smart buyers* know that the prices of this past decade were driven by idiot borrowers (and lenders) who were agreeing to pay prices they could NEVER afford. Just as some sellers think that today’s prices are driven by “distressed” properties, buyers know that the high prices since 2001 were driven by idiot buyers who thought “real estate only goes up,” and who over-leveraged themselves to the point that these foreclosures became inevitable.

Just because a particular neighborhood didn’t see a lot of sales during the credit bubble does NOT mean the prices of those homes weren’t affected by the mania. Even if 1 out of 2 sales were to people who were willing to overpay (and there were PLENTY of people buying in the $800K++ range with “exotic” mortgages), that’s half the market! Prices in neighboring areas (San Diego, in general) during the bubble absolutely affected other areas nearby. Just like that one foreclosure down the street can affect prices, one sale to an overleveraged, idiot buyer affected what neighboring owners thought their houses were worth. The market does not exist in a vacuum, no matter how “special” an area is.

The foreclosures and short sales are happening because those very same buyers who were overpaying during the bubble are now being taken out (but you never hear these neighboring owners admit that the peak sales to overleveraged speculators shouldn’t count, they only think the “distressed” sales shouldn’t count…one is the mirror image of the other). All of it needs to be unwound.

[CA renter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=deadzone]Regarding the lower pricing I am seeing in La Jolla, it is a combination of all cases. There are some short sales, some foreclosures, and in some cases long time residents (presumably way above water) who are finally waking up to reality that they have to lower their asking prices significantly if they want to sell.[/quote]

Why do these “way above water long time residents” in LJ have to lower their asking prices significantly if they wish to sell? Are there short-sale closings and foreclosures on their street? What’s keeping these longtime owners from withdrawing their current listing and waiting for a “better day?”

I maintain that the way above water sellers you speak of who feel they MUST reduce in order to sell MUST SELL NOW for a REASON during a time when nearby lower sold comps are affecting the value of their properties. Those nearby lower sold comps are lower for a REASON. What are those REASONS, deadzone??

If you knew these answers as well as what the likelihood was that this scenario would continue to “play out” in a “micro-area,” then you might be able to determine if now would be a good time to buy in that area.[/quote]

Because they need or want to sell. It really is that simple. If buyers aren’t willing to pay their price, then their price is too high.

As to why a neighboring property might have sold for less…it’s because nobody was willing to pay more for it. If somebody wants to sell something, they have to price it to sell. For example, I can put ads online and in all the newspapers listing my dusty minivan for $200K. Just because I listed it for $200K doesn’t make it worth $200K (and just because, once upon a time, some idiot was willing to use someone else’s money to pay $200K for a similar vehicle…doesn’t make MY dusty minivan worth that price, either). In any given market, it is the buyers who determine price. Always.

They have to lower their prices because *smart buyers* know that the prices of this past decade were driven by idiot borrowers (and lenders) who were agreeing to pay prices they could NEVER afford. Just as some sellers think that today’s prices are driven by “distressed” properties, buyers know that the high prices since 2001 were driven by idiot buyers who thought “real estate only goes up,” and who over-leveraged themselves to the point that these foreclosures became inevitable.

Just because a particular neighborhood didn’t see a lot of sales during the credit bubble does NOT mean the prices of those homes weren’t affected by the mania. Even if 1 out of 2 sales were to people who were willing to overpay (and there were PLENTY of people buying in the $800K++ range with “exotic” mortgages), that’s half the market! Prices in neighboring areas (San Diego, in general) during the bubble absolutely affected other areas nearby. Just like that one foreclosure down the street can affect prices, one sale to an overleveraged, idiot buyer affected what neighboring owners thought their houses were worth. The market does not exist in a vacuum, no matter how “special” an area is.

The foreclosures and short sales are happening because those very same buyers who were overpaying during the bubble are now being taken out (but you never hear these neighboring owners admit that the peak sales to overleveraged speculators shouldn’t count, they only think the “distressed” sales shouldn’t count…one is the mirror image of the other). All of it needs to be unwound.

[scaredyclassic]

All of it should be unwound. But money is still cheap. And the strange current reality is that on nice places in the submarket we were tracking man they go into escrow fast. You have to see the listing on a computer rogeam get out there take a look and make an offer in four or five days if you want it. That’s a lot of filtering and attention span required. Sure the whole system might fall apart but if it doesn’t if money is still priced low if supply is constrained by hook or by crook this game if extend and pretend could just bd the new normal. I agree w both sides of the debate. It’s absurd to buy under the current regime. Bit it’s absurd to let that absurdity stop you from buying smethong if you really want it and it’s a good deal relative to the other fake absurdcrappy deals. There is no free market but life goes on. Maybe.

[scaredyclassic]

All of it should be unwound. But money is still cheap. And the strange current reality is that on nice places in the submarket we were tracking man they go into escrow fast. You have to see the listing on a computer rogeam get out there take a look and make an offer in four or five days if you want it. That’s a lot of filtering and attention span required. Sure the whole system might fall apart but if it doesn’t if money is still priced low if supply is constrained by hook or by crook this game if extend and pretend could just bd the new normal. I agree w both sides of the debate. It’s absurd to buy under the current regime. Bit it’s absurd to let that absurdity stop you from buying smethong if you really want it and it’s a good deal relative to the other fake absurdcrappy deals. There is no free market but life goes on. Maybe.

[scaredyclassic]

All of it should be unwound. But money is still cheap. And the strange current reality is that on nice places in the submarket we were tracking man they go into escrow fast. You have to see the listing on a computer rogeam get out there take a look and make an offer in four or five days if you want it. That’s a lot of filtering and attention span required. Sure the whole system might fall apart but if it doesn’t if money is still priced low if supply is constrained by hook or by crook this game if extend and pretend could just bd the new normal. I agree w both sides of the debate. It’s absurd to buy under the current regime. Bit it’s absurd to let that absurdity stop you from buying smethong if you really want it and it’s a good deal relative to the other fake absurdcrappy deals. There is no free market but life goes on. Maybe.

[scaredyclassic]

All of it should be unwound. But money is still cheap. And the strange current reality is that on nice places in the submarket we were tracking man they go into escrow fast. You have to see the listing on a computer rogeam get out there take a look and make an offer in four or five days if you want it. That’s a lot of filtering and attention span required. Sure the whole system might fall apart but if it doesn’t if money is still priced low if supply is constrained by hook or by crook this game if extend and pretend could just bd the new normal. I agree w both sides of the debate. It’s absurd to buy under the current regime. Bit it’s absurd to let that absurdity stop you from buying smethong if you really want it and it’s a good deal relative to the other fake absurdcrappy deals. There is no free market but life goes on. Maybe.

[Author]

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