California Senate Passes Discrimination Bill SCA-5….

[CA renter]

Excellent question, flyer (and why I brought up the issue of IQ-based discrimination).

There is a fair amount of research showing that IQ does correlate with overall academic success and socio-economic status later in life, but some are questioning whether or not success later in life is directly related to IQ/educational achievement, or whether it’s more related to the allocation of educational resources and how those with higher IQs tend to get access to greater resources due to this discrimination.

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“There is so much more emphasis on IQ testing than ever before. So we started to wonder is innate cognitive ability behind the IQ-job performance link, or is it that society gives advantages and resources to people who have higher IQ scores?” said Eliza Byington, lead author of the study published in the journal Research in Organizational Behavior.

Byington and her colleague Will Felps — both of whom are from the Netherland’s Rotterdam School of Management, Erasmus University — say students who perform well in IQ reflective tests (e.g. GMAT, GRE and SAT) have access to a greater range of developmental resources.

Advanced classes, professional training and other tools all build on a student’s early abilities, Byington says, handing them opportunities to further enhance their skills and career prospects.

Not only is the allocation of these resources creating high performers, Byington and Felps argue, they may also be creating wider gaps between high and low scoring students.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/02/28/iq.jobs.study/

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In a study of the relationship between the contributions of physicists and biologists (based on such criteria as patents granted and the number of publications), Harmon (1963) found that individuals receiving high ratings as professional scientists could not be predicted from any of the academic proficiency information. He also discovered that for nearly half of the correlations computed, the direction of the relationship between these traditional measures of academic success and professional accomplishments was negative. In two studies of professional mathematicians, Helson (1971), and Helson and Crutchfield (1970) found no significant IQ score differences between mathematicians judged by their peers as performing particularly good research and a control group of low productive mathematicians. There were, however, differences between the groups on a variety of personality measures purporting to assess proclivities for creative behavior. Similar results have been reported in studies of chemists and mathematicians (Bloom, 1963), psychologists (Marston, 1971), research scientists (MacKinnon, 1968), artists (Barron, 1963), and architects (MacKinnon, 1968).

In an extremely comprehensive review of occupational studies dealing with traditional indicators of academic success and postcollege performance, Hoyt (1965) concluded that traditional assessments of academic success have at best a modest correlation with various indicators of success in the adult world. The review included forty-six studies in seven occupational areas including business, teaching, engineering, medicine, scientific research, journalism, government, and the ministry. The criteria for determining the level of accomplishment varied from salary level to numbers of publications to behavioral performance ratings. Hoyt asserted that sufficient evidence had been aggregated to warrant a conclusion that “there is good reason to believe that academic achievement (knowledge) and other types of educational growth and development are relatively independent of each other” (p. 73). Similar conclusions were reached in analogous studies conducted by Ghiselli (1973), Creagar and Harmon (1966), and Baird (undated paper).

A study conducted by the American College Testing (ACT) Program titled, Varieties of Accomplishment After College: Perspectives on the Meaning of Academic Talent (Munday & Davis, 1974), resulted in the following conclusion:

The adult accomplishments were found to be uncorrelated with academic talent, including test scores, high school grades, and college grades. However, the adult accomplishments were related to comparable high school non-academic (extra curricular) accomplishments. This suggests that there are many kinds of talents related to later success which might be identified and nurtured by educational institutions (abstract).

http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/sem/copernic.html

[flyer]

Extremely interesting, CAR, thank you.

In the final analysis, one, regardless of how gifted, does still have to go out into the world and find a place for his or her “giftedness,” regardless of what variety. It is in this “transference to real life,” if you will, that we have seen the greatest level of failure among many we have known.

To use an extreme example: After shooting under par on the links, the budding concert pianist who conceives of a new black hole theory between bars, then writes a screenplay during intermission, but never finds a “home” in which to place his or her talents, for all practical purposes, will, most likely, not live a happy, fulfilling or productive life.

The “gifted” walk a fine line in life, and that is why we have always taken great care to strike a balance concerning this issue. It hasn’t been easy, but, because we have tried to stay uber aware of the pitfalls, the “giftedness” has turned out to be a blessing, rather than a curse in our family.

[scaredyclassic]

I didn’t get 99th percentile SAT scores by studying …back then it was normal to walk into thectestvcold. It’s aptitude after all.

A quick and agile mind can take you a long way in a system that values glib superficial thinking.

Out in reality of course it may not mean crap.

[scaredyclassic]

Success means having to worry about every damn thing in the world except money. Johnny cash.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]Extremely interesting, CAR, thank you.

In the final analysis, one, regardless of how gifted, does still have to go out into the world and find a place for his or her “giftedness,” regardless of what variety. It is in this “transference to real life,” if you will, that we have seen the greatest level of failure among many we have known.

To use an extreme example: After shooting under par on the links, the budding concert pianist who conceives of a new black hole theory between bars, then writes a screenplay during intermission, but never finds a “home” in which to place his or her talents, for all practical purposes, will, most likely, not live a happy, fulfilling or productive life.

The “gifted” walk a fine line in life, and that is why we have always taken great care to strike a balance concerning this issue. It hasn’t been easy, but, because we have tried to stay uber aware of the pitfalls, the “giftedness” has turned out to be a blessing, rather than a curse in our family.[/quote]

Sometimes it seems like the brightest or most diligent burn outvfastest.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Be the best in a crappy school![/quote]
true…

[Clueless]

To kill the bill at the Assembly, which is the most effective next step,, please Email, Call, or fax to the Assemblymember in your area:

(1). Brian Maienschein – District 77 (Carmel Valley, Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Rancho Penasquitos, Mirama, etc.): http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/member/AD77 (It worked for me ! His office replied my email in 2h)
(2). Rocky Chavez – District 76 (Carlsbad, Encinitas, Oceanside, etc.): http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/member/AD76/

You can find your district by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Assembly_districts
CA Republic Assembly members: ttp://republican.assembly.ca.gov/?p=members&o=d#bottom
CA All Assembly members: http://assembly.ca.gov/assemblymembers

Flu- I send you a message, please check it out.

[Clueless]

[quote=Clueless]To kill the bill at the Assembly, which is the most effective next step,, please Email, Call, or fax to the Assemblymember in your area:

(1). Brian Maienschein – District 77 (Carmel Valley, Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Rancho Penasquitos, Mirama, etc.): http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/member/AD77 (It worked for me ! His office replied my email in 2h)
(2). Rocky Chavez – District 76 (Carlsbad, Encinitas, Oceanside, etc.): http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/member/AD76/

You can find your district by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Assembly_districts
CA Republic Assembly members: ttp://republican.assembly.ca.gov/?p=members&o=d#bottom
CA All Assembly members: http://assembly.ca.gov/assemblymembers

Flu- I send you a message, please check it out.[/quote]

Just state: I am against SCA5, Please vote No to SCA5.

[Anonymous]

But who will speak for the dumb kids?

CAR to the rescue!

[Coronita]

[quote=harvey]But who will speak for the dumb kids?

CAR to the rescue![/quote]

It isn’t about dumb kids… You know the sad part of this is… Most “genius” kids either flunk out because they never bother to try or they end up like Mark Z and Bill Gates and drop out on their own because they have a better use of their time. So this really isn’t about “smart kids”.

It’s really about folks who paid their dues, put in a lot of time and effort to further themselves….And simply being denied opportunity because of their ethnicity in the interest of filling quotas…

Put in another way, it would be like the NBA having a policy that says that since asians make up 13-14% of the California population, asians are disproportionately under-represented on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers…

As a result, there should be quotas that specifically recruit asians and fill 13% of the starters on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers.. As a result, there should be a law that restrict the number of african americans that are on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers so that the percentage of african americans on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers is similar to the % of population in CA that are african americans….. irrespective of how good they may be..Simply because they are african americans and there are “too many of them” on the NBA teams…it doesn’t matter if they have “talent” or achieved great athleticism through “hard work”….

Of course the if someone did propose such a ridiculous racist/discriminatory policy, of course all hell would break lose.

So, again…….Double standards anyone?????

It would be a pretty funny spoof on the daily show if we had an SCA-NBA bill…

[an]

[quote=flu][quote=harvey]But who will speak for the dumb kids?

CAR to the rescue![/quote]

It isn’t about dumb kids… You know the sad part of this is… Most “genius” kids either flunk out because they never bother to try or they end up like Mark Z and Bill Gates and drop out on their own because they have a better use of their time. So this really isn’t about “smart kids”.

It’s really about folks who paid their dues, put in a lot of time and effort to further themselves….And simply being denied opportunity because of their ethnicity in the interest of filling quotas…

Put in another way, it would be like the NBA having a policy that says that since asians make up 13-14% of the California population, asians are disproportionately under-represented on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers…

As a result, there should be quotas that specifically recruit asians and fill 13% of the starters on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers.. As a result, there should be a law that restrict the number of african americans that are on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers so that the percentage of african americans on the LA Lakers and LA Clippers is similar to the % of population in CA that are african americans….. irrespective of how good they may be..Simply because they are african americans and there are “too many of them” on the NBA teams…it doesn’t matter if they have “talent” or achieved great athleticism through “hard work”….

Of course the if someone did propose such a ridiculous racist/discriminatory policy, of course all hell would break lose.

So, again…….Double standards anyone?????

It would be a pretty funny spoof on the daily show if we had an SCA-NBA bill…[/quote]+1

[CA renter]

[quote=flyer]Extremely interesting, CAR, thank you.

In the final analysis, one, regardless of how gifted, does still have to go out into the world and find a place for his or her “giftedness,” regardless of what variety. It is in this “transference to real life,” if you will, that we have seen the greatest level of failure among many we have known.

To use an extreme example: After shooting under par on the links, the budding concert pianist who conceives of a new black hole theory between bars, then writes a screenplay during intermission, but never finds a “home” in which to place his or her talents, for all practical purposes, will, most likely, not live a happy, fulfilling or productive life.

The “gifted” walk a fine line in life, and that is why we have always taken great care to strike a balance concerning this issue. It hasn’t been easy, but, because we have tried to stay uber aware of the pitfalls, the “giftedness” has turned out to be a blessing, rather than a curse in our family.[/quote]

Absolutely, flyer, high IQ can be a curse as much as it is a blessing. There is also a correlation between high IQs and mental illness.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/intelligence-linked-to-bipolar-disorder/0005518

http://www.livescience.com/36259-anxiety-linked-high-iq.html

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10086.aspx

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Like your story, some friends of my parents had a son with a 160+ IQ. He attended an Ivy League university and law school, and eventually opened his own practice in NY. Within a few years, he started acting irrationally…had to leave the business and moved back into his parents house where he remained indefinitely (last time I heard of him, he was still living there, decades later), walking around in his robe and reading lots and lots of voluminous, intellectually challenging books.

There are many stories just like this out there, as I’m sure you know. It’s why I think we ought to give equal(?) consideration to non-academic accomplishments when choosing between college applicants. I’d personally like to see more students who are more focused on ways to make the world a better place, as opposed to those who are simply focused on improving their own lot. That’s what colleges try to do when they look at essays, interviews, extracurricular activities and accomplishments, which I think is a good thing.

And just to be clear, I’m opposed to racial quotas, too. Just wanted to toss around the idea that, no matter what the deciding factors are, college entrance requirements are discriminatory by their very nature. Oftentimes, what they are discriminating for (or against) are things that people are born with…like skin color, physical ability (in the case of athletic scholarships, etc.) or intelligence. How can we really determine what is “fair”?

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu]It isn’t about dumb kids… [/quote]

Yes, I know that.

The bill sounds like something out of Atlas Shrugged.

Hard to believe it is not fiction.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]
I think in honor of this bill, I’ll change my kid’s last name to Hernandez, just to make a mockery of this ridiculous “law”….

Please sign the petition, and get your significant other and all of your family members and relatives to sign… I wonder if on the application, you check the Hispanic box. Would they be able to tell? Maybe that’s one way around it. You can very well have a Chinese dad and a Mexican mom and you just happen to identify yourself more with your Hispanic heritage. That way, you don’t have to go through the hassle of changing your name :-).[/quote]

Hey, there’s a little known community of Cantonese immigrants in Mexicali, these immigrants to the US are considered “Hispanics.” I have had some encounters with them throughout the years, to see these guys speaking Spanish and needing Spanish translators is a real trip.

I think my daughter just became one of these Hispanic Cantonese from Mexicali… hehe

[ocrenter]

[quote=cahunter]I have learned this bill for some time and have emailed and called my state assembly representative to vote NO on this bill.

Ed Hernandez sponsored similar bill, SB 185, in 2011. It was passed in both state senate and assembly but vetoed by Governor Jerry Brown. This time around, he is hope that with the 2/3 majority power of democrats, this bill can be presented to California voters to decide in November election.

This is a bill of race discrimination to me. Its ridiculousness is best illustrated by a comment I read here: http://capoliticalnews.com/2014/02/02/most-racist-bill-in-california-history-sca-5-by-democrat-senator-hernandez-forces-racism-as-criteria-to-entrance-to-uc-schools-limit-womens-enrollment-as-well/#IDComment796169378

I am very sad by this proposal. I am Korean adopted by a Hispanic family. Looks like all my siblings will get a better chance to get to college but me
. How stupid this is! I love my adoption family but this makes me sick to stomach.[/quote]

“Hispanic” is a culture, not a race.

Because you were raised by a Hispanic family, you are culturally a Hispanic.

Nothing wrong with checking that Hispanic box with pride. 🙂

[Author]

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