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ocrenter.
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March 6, 2014 at 7:36 AM #771602March 6, 2014 at 7:51 AM #771603
dumbrenter
ParticipantWhy don’t you start with yourself? Stop wasting time on this social board and get busy in your lab with some ‘life-altering’ stuff?
[quote=CA renter]AN, you could do most of those things 15 years ago with a computer. The on-the-go usefulness is what I mean by navigation (relating your location to local activities and establishments, etc.), and I admit that it’s easier to find the nearest restaurant, etc. when you’re out and about. That IS an improvement. But being able to watch movies, spend time on Facebook, and play games (and we had handheld devices for that years ago, too) on your phone is “fluff” as far as I’m concerned.
In our glory days, we built rocket ships that could take us to the moon, satellites that could beam back pictures of outer space, we eradicated polio, we learned how to mass-produce penicillin, we built highways and more reliable cars/trucks that could carry people and goods across the states and into other countries. We (and others) built the first computers.
Nothing that you’ve mentioned comes anywhere close, IMO. We need to stop focusing on “social media” and phones and start creating things that will result in life-altering improvements and discoveries.[/quote]
March 6, 2014 at 8:29 AM #771604
CoronitaParticipant[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN][quote=flu]Well, at least one politician is opposed to this….
XXXXX,
I oppose SCA 5 as it is currently written. I do not support discrimination of any kind and believe that college admissions should be based upon academic and extracurricular factors.
Assemblymember Brian Maienschein
He gets my vote election time…[/quote]
He gets mine too. This is what his office has written back to me:Thank you for taking the time to write in regarding SCA 5.
Assemblymember Maienschein shares your concerns and is currently opposed to this legislation as it is currently written.
Should you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Lance Witmondt
Office of Assemblymember Brian Maienschein, 77th District
P-(858)675-0077[/quote]I heard back from his office as well. I replied back with the following:
Rep Maienschein, thank you for writing back. I appreciate your opposition in regard to SCA 5.
I am extremely pessimistic in regard to our position. Given the Democrats do have an overwhelming majority, I do fear the practice of ochlocracy right here within our Great State of California.
What makes American Democracy work so well over our 238 year history is our willingness to protect minority rights. This is the fine line that separates true democracy from ochlocracy that is typical of sham democracies such as Egypt and Russia.
Arizona walked extremely close into total ochlocracy state with their most recent SB 1062. I fear California is going down the same path with SCA 5. Isn’t it amazing that while Arizona is beholden to extreme elements of the Republican party and California is beholden to extreme elements of the Democrats, these extreme forces are showing they are actually identical in their blatant disregard for the basic foundation of our democracy: protection of minority rights and basic fairness.
This is a tough and uphill battle we got ahead of us, as a minority under assault by the new majority, I ask for your help to keep our democracy a true democracy.
thank you,
xxx[/quote]
+1000 well said…Extreme governments stink…I guess we should all prepare this being a supreme court issue…
March 6, 2014 at 9:19 AM #771605livinincali
Participant[quote=flu]
+1000 well said…Extreme governments stink…I guess we should all prepare this being a supreme court issue…[/quote]Unfortunately I don’t know that this issue gets that far in the court system. Affirmative action no matter whom it effects has legal precedent already. Do the courts really want to overturn Bakke vs Board of Regents? I think you’d have more luck winning this with political pressure or another referendum like 209.
Personally I think Bakke v Board of Regents goes against the constitution, but it’s far easier for the courts to hide behind established legal precedent.
March 6, 2014 at 10:09 AM #771606sjglaze3
ParticipantUmm, what about MRI, PET and CT scanners? Huge changes in the last 10 years.
March 6, 2014 at 10:42 AM #771607an
Participant[quote=sjglaze3]Umm, what about MRI, PET and CT scanners? Huge changes in the last 10 years.[/quote]From the link I provided:
1. Human Genome Discoveries Reach the Bedside
2. Doctors and Patients Harness Information Technology
3. Heart Disease Deaths Drop by 40 Percent
4. Stem Cell Research
5. Targeted Therapies for Cancer Expand With New Drugs
6. Combination Drug Therapy Extends HIV Survival
7. Minimally Invasive Techniques Revolutionize Surgery
8. Study Finds Heart, Cancer Risk With Hormone Replacement Therapy
9. Scientists Peer Into Mind With Functional MRIThen there are stuff I think is pretty revolutionary, like: nano tech, robotic limb replacement, lasik, cure for HIV in infants, laparoscopic surgery, cloning, etc.
March 6, 2014 at 11:15 AM #771608FlyerInHi
Guest[quote=ocrenter][img_assist|nid=17932|title=UC admission stat|desc=progressive Hispanic representation on UC campuses.|link=node|align=left|width=400|height=288]
This came from the Chinese language World Journal, which has had in depth coverage of the racist SCA-5.
Judging by the graph, the Whites are progressively declining in their enrollment while the Hispanics are gaining.
If this law passes, it will be used as a tool to affirmatively admit white students in the near future.[/quote]
Like I said before, Prop 209 was a populist White based initiative. SC_5 is the same. The Tea Party is populist based, as is part of the Democratic party, especially the unions.
For all the talk about merit and objective measures of merit, people only want to selectively practice what they preach. They use political tools to suppress minorities that were not culturally adjusted. And now it’s coming to bite them in the butt.
These nativist, populist elements are seeing Prop 209 as a threat because of increasing Asian and Latino enrollment at the universities. The next logical step would be state and local government employment. For instance, all else being equal, should the district hire a fireman/policeman/employee who has a 4.0 gpa, or one who has a 3.1 gpa? How about one who has a bachelor over a HS diploma?
The truth is not all Asians are smart students (it must be hard for those who aren’t) but within the group, there is a big portion that values education and work very hard.
Latino immigrants were historically poor rural folks who could not compete at the university level. That is changing fast as there is more immigration from urban capitals. They have more resources and stay in touch with you friends and family thanks to Skype, WeChat, Line, Tango, etc…
I don’t believe it’s a question of race, but simply that first and second generation immigrants work harder. The demographics that we see are just a result of most of our immigration coming from Latin America and Asia. If you do a survey of a tech company you’ll see immigrants from Europe also (likely Eastern Europe) but fewer.
Incidentally, Asians benefited from Affirmative Action in the past. At one point, Asians used to be poor uneducated immigrants who worked mostly in restaurants, dry cleaners and other service jobs.
The world is changing. It’s a lot more structured with barriers to entry such aptitude tests, entrance exams… Big data also allows us to search and view a person’s history. That’s why executive who lie on their resume eventually get caught. We must adapt or perish.
March 6, 2014 at 3:54 PM #771612The-Shoveler
ParticipantIMO as far as just college part of this, all of this is somewhat moot for kids who are still under say 10.
My prediction is in 10 years most college will take place online (and be free or very low cost) and will be more about one’s own initiative than anything else.
Still waiting for a better smart pill or google implant LOL.
Like it or not the Net is the great equalizer.
March 6, 2014 at 4:29 PM #771613ocrenter
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
Like I said before, Prop 209 was a populist White based initiative. SC_5 is the same. The Tea Party is populist based, as is part of the Democratic party, especially the unions.
For all the talk about merit and objective measures of merit, people only want to selectively practice what they preach. They use political tools to suppress minorities that were not culturally adjusted. And now it’s coming to bite them in the butt.
These nativist, populist elements are seeing Prop 209 as a threat because of increasing Asian and Latino enrollment at the universities. The next logical step would be state and local government employment. For instance, all else being equal, should the district hire a fireman/policeman/employee who has a 4.0 gpa, or one who has a 3.1 gpa? How about one who has a bachelor over a HS diploma?
The truth is not all Asians are smart students (it must be hard for those who aren’t) but within the group, there is a big portion that values education and work very hard.
Latino immigrants were historically poor rural folks who could not compete at the university level. That is changing fast as there is more immigration from urban capitals. They have more resources and stay in touch with you friends and family thanks to Skype, WeChat, Line, Tango, etc…
I don’t believe it’s a question of race, but simply that first and second generation immigrants work harder. The demographics that we see are just a result of most of our immigration coming from Latin America and Asia. If you do a survey of a tech company you’ll see immigrants from Europe also (likely Eastern Europe) but fewer.
Incidentally, Asians benefited from Affirmative Action in the past. At one point, Asians used to be poor uneducated immigrants who worked mostly in restaurants, dry cleaners and other service jobs.
The world is changing. It’s a lot more structured with barriers to entry such aptitude tests, entrance exams… Big data also allows us to search and view a person’s history. That’s why executive who lie on their resume eventually get caught. We must adapt or perish.[/quote]
SCA5 is actually a Hispanic initiated Bill. Essentially the majority will always try to use their raw number to suppress the minority, as Hispanics become California’s majority, they will also do their very best to suppress other minorities. I actually fear the new Hispanic majority more than I fear the old white majority as the Hispanic is going in with the idea that they are disadvantaged and need all of these extra rights.
As you mentioned, Asians benefiting from prop 209 was an unintended consequence the majority whites did not expect. I see the same with SCA5, whites and men will end up benefitting as they are now the under-represented group, something I’m sure the new Hispanic majority did not foresee.
I disagree Asians actually ever truly benefited from affirmative action, if so it was extremely short lived and limited. Remember, California history is filled with one racist law after another, all aimed right at Asian Americans, any potential benefit (real or perceived) will be quickly remedied.
March 6, 2014 at 5:06 PM #771614Guest[quote=ocrenter] SCA5 is actually a Hispanic initiated Bill. [/quote]
Yes… and perhaps supported by Blacks also.
Grass roots Hispanics and Blacks tend to be lower class who would most benefit from affirmative action.But, in a couple more decades, SCA5 may not work out so well for Hispanics when they become majority in the state.
Politics makes strange bedfellows. The Tea Party is very good a seizing issues and building moral outrage. Notice that they’ve been very silent. A similar issue is playing out differently in Michigan were there are few Asian. U of Michigan is pretty good… I can see Chinese investors buying houses all around Ann Arbor for their kids.
[quote=ocrenter]
disagree Asians actually ever truly benefited from affirmative action, if so it was extremely short lived and limited.[/quote]Well, there were few Asians back then.
[quote=ocrenter]
Remember, California history is filled with one racist law after another, all aimed right at Asian Americans, any potential benefit (real or perceived) will be quickly remedied.[/quote]I think the world has changed. Asians have become more sophisticated. If Asian voters learn to make $500 campaign contributions here and there, every year, they would have the ear of politicians.
March 6, 2014 at 5:10 PM #771615Participant[quote=ocrenter]SCA5 is actually a Hispanic initiated Bill. Essentially the majority will always try to use their raw number to suppress the minority, as Hispanics become California’s majority, they will also do their very best to suppress other minorities. I actually fear the new Hispanic majority more than I fear the old white majority as the Hispanic is going in with the idea that they are disadvantaged and need all of these extra rights.
As you mentioned, Asians benefiting from prop 209 was an unintended consequence the majority whites did not expect. I see the same with SCA5, whites and men will end up benefitting as they are now the under-represented group, something I’m sure the new Hispanic majority did not foresee.
I disagree Asians actually ever truly benefited from affirmative action, if so it was extremely short lived and limited. Remember, California history is filled with one racist law after another, all aimed right at Asian Americans, any potential benefit (real or perceived) will be quickly remedied.[/quote]Totally agree. At least with the white majority, they don’t feel they’re disadvantaged and need to create laws to make themselves less “disadvantaged” even when they become the majority, which they will be sooner rather than later.
I also disagree that Asians actually benefited from affirmative action. I don’t have data to back this up, but something tells me that it has always hurt the Asians. I know many first generation Asian immigrants who themselves work in blue collar jobs. However, they know full well that education is the way out and they pushed their kids to excel in education. So, just because 1st gen Asian immigrants were poor and uneducated doesn’t mean their kids were.
March 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM #771616Guest[quote=The-Shoveler]
Like it or not the Net is the great equalizer.[/quote]
I don’t know about that…. The Net can be a great divider also.
I have well-paid colleagues who can hardly use an iPad. Many have not even finished college. Sometimes I feel like how did they let those idiots get to where they are? But they do perform their specific jobs pretty well.
It’s not just seeking information on the Net, but earning the top scores at every stage of your life.
Now with a global workforce, especially in tech, where is the end game? Should a PhD be the minimum requirement for an engineering job, if there’s enough supply of PhDs, then why wouldn’t employers want the best?
Yeah, yeah, yeah some people like Bill Gates and Mark Zukerberg didn’t finish college and are very creative. But Microsoft and facebook have hiring policies and minimum standards for new positions.
March 6, 2014 at 5:55 PM #771617ParticipantAt google it’s more about “the test”
I have heard a software cert is worth more in some circles than a degree.
March 6, 2014 at 7:26 PM #771618Participant[quote=AN][quote=ocrenter]SCA5 is actually a Hispanic initiated Bill. Essentially the majority will always try to use their raw number to suppress the minority, as Hispanics become California’s majority, they will also do their very best to suppress other minorities. I actually fear the new Hispanic majority more than I fear the old white majority as the Hispanic is going in with the idea that they are disadvantaged and need all of these extra rights.
As you mentioned, Asians benefiting from prop 209 was an unintended consequence the majority whites did not expect. I see the same with SCA5, whites and men will end up benefitting as they are now the under-represented group, something I’m sure the new Hispanic majority did not foresee.
I disagree Asians actually ever truly benefited from affirmative action, if so it was extremely short lived and limited. Remember, California history is filled with one racist law after another, all aimed right at Asian Americans, any potential benefit (real or perceived) will be quickly remedied.[/quote]Totally agree. At least with the white majority, they don’t feel they’re disadvantaged and need to create laws to make themselves less “disadvantaged” even when they become the majority, which they will be sooner rather than later.
I also disagree that Asians actually benefited from affirmative action. I don’t have data to back this up, but something tells me that it has always hurt the Asians. I know many first generation Asian immigrants who themselves work in blue collar jobs. However, they know full well that education is the way out and they pushed their kids to excel in education. So, just because 1st gen Asian immigrants were poor and uneducated doesn’t mean their kids were.[/quote]
This whole thing reminds me of the racist policy of Malaysia in favor of the “disadvantaged” majority Malays at the expense of the minority Chinese and Indians.
California, following the lead of racist Malaysia, how far have we fallen.
March 6, 2014 at 7:31 PM #771619GuestEdward Snowden undoubtedly is very bright.
But there are lots of questions about why a high school dropout was even hired as a government contractor. The implication is that Snowden is a “punk.” Or that someone without a college degree is less stable or less trustworthy. Or that someone dropped the ball in properly screening security clearance applicants.Does it mean that the higher the degree, or the higher the test score, the more “qualified” the person is?
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