98.7 perc riverside icu beds full today

[scaredyclassic]

Alarming.

I wear a mask and plastic shield out and about nowadays

[svelte]

Can’t say I’m surprised. When we went to Temecula virtually no one was wearing a mask.

If you’re wearing a mask and shield, you’ll be easy to recognize!

[scaredyclassic]

im the only one double deckered

[Coronita]

Things are bad in Florida right now. My company is headquartered there, we are a small company, and each day, there is a email that goes about about someone taking medical leave due to covid. The latest was a PM that got infected, along with 20 family/relative members, I think because they decided to do a summer get together, and one person was infected and asymptotic

[svelte]

[quote=Coronita]Things are bad in Florida right now. My company is headquartered there, we are a small company, and each day, there is a email that goes about about someone taking medical leave due to covid. The latest was a PM that got infected, along with 20 family/relative members, I think because they decided to do a summer get together, and one person was infected and asymptotic[/quote]

I thought states opening was a good idea, but that was under the assumption everyone would wear masks.

Since folks aren’t doing that in many areas, especially when around family, it is probably a good idea to shut back down.

My family in Northern CA went through similar…they were starting to hold gatherings then one person got it and all family gatherings are now canceled. Luckily that one person didn’t spread it to the rest of the family as near as we can tell. We got lucky.

[The-Shoveler]

Coronavirus: could it be burning out after 20% of a population is infected?

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Coronavirus: could it be burning out after 20% of a population is infected?

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584%5B/quote%5D

LIKE A MIRACLE, IT WILL GO AWAY.

article itself says that it is “speculation”, based on some pretty loose array of facts.

but i guess it’s possible. it does seem to be spreading in weird ways with different levels of mortality.

i doubt it though

[sdrealtor]

Found out Sunday night my beloved big sister (62) tested positive. She’s a Child and Family Case Social worker at a hospital in rural Northeastern AZ. Nicest person on the planet , Ive never heard her utter a single ill word about anyone ever.

She’s the universe’s way of apologizing for PITA that is me. She has history of an immunodeficiency incident that occured about 10 years ago. She’s asymptomatic but if she comes down with a serious case it would be problematic. Her husband is a recent cancer survivor and would not fare well either.

Think you cant get it? Think everyone wearing a mask even if it has a chance of helping is unecessary?

They live on over 50 acres in a town with a census listed population of 38 people (Concho, AZ). They have been wearing masks when out which is rare and social distancing is pretty much a way of life for them. She recently went back to work at the regional hospital and was exposed through a co-worker despite taking precautions.

If that’s not a wake up call that this can impact anyone anywhere I don’t know what it is?

No symptoms yet and hopefully stays that way. Gonna be a tough couple weeks for me. I havent seen her since last Summer when she stayed with me for our mother’s final days. Id hate that to be the last time I saw her 🙁

[outtamojo]

If your sister is immunocompromised/high risk she could ask her doctor about possibly doing the convalescent plasma treatment as a prophylaxis. I dont know about it’s availability in AZ but in Ca. it is available.

Eating a meal in a small breakroom next to an asymptomatic coworker is the biggest weak link in the whole masking scheme imo.

[spdrun]

Meanwhile, we’re down to 0.7 hospital admissions per day per 100k people in NYC – about 50-60 per day, with ICU cases being only about 10% of that. Despite protests, people “hanging out” outdoors, businesses reopening (legally and otherwise).

Actual scientists have been saying that the risk of outdoor transmission is next to zero for months now … beaches should remain open so people have a safe(r) place to do fun stuff and socialize.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=spdrun]Meanwhile, we’re down to 0.7 hospital admissions per day per 100k people in NYC – about 50-60 per day, with ICU cases being only about 10% of that. Despite protests, people “hanging out” outdoors, businesses reopening (legally and otherwise).

Actual scientists have been saying that the risk of outdoor transmission is next to zero for months now … beaches should remain open so people have a safe(r) place to do fun stuff and socialize.[/quote]

IMO NY probably reaching the burn out phase same for southern Europe and Sweden.

[The-Shoveler]

IMO Family gatherings are highest risk.

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Walking on beach probably fairly low risk.

[scaredyclassic]

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

[barnaby33]

We’re all going to get this, full stop. Herd immunity is the only known cure. I hate to sound like a dick as I have no wish for anyone to be ill. However with no cure and no real treatment on the horizon the absolute best we can hope for is to keep our hospital system and most vulnerable protected while the rest of us get it.

Think I’m wrong, great! Show me the path to a cure, please!

That being said, any region with 98.7% of it’s ICU full should be locked back down and hard.
Josh

[The-Shoveler]

IMO hard lock downs (other than Bars and party type places) unlikely at this point.

IMO closing beaches does little good.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=barnaby33]We’re all going to get this, full stop. Herd immunity is the only known cure. I hate to sound like a dick as I have no wish for anyone to be ill. However with no cure and no real treatment on the horizon the absolute best we can hope for is to keep our hospital system and most vulnerable protected while the rest of us get it.

Think I’m wrong, great! Show me the path to a cure, please!

That being said, any region with 98.7% of it’s ICU full should be locked back down and hard.
Josh[/quote]

i have been thinking this way. might have been better in retrospect to get it early, when there were plentiful icu beds.

im feeling more vulnerable than usual right now because i recently developed a growth on my foot, benign, but annoying. it’s not going to kill me, but it is a sign that my time is limited, getting a somewhat rare condition of the middle aged than can progress is the kind of thing that makes you think, huh, maybe i will not live forever… maybe excessive walking stimulated it to be there. unknown etiology.

[zk]

[quote=barnaby33]We’re all going to get this, full stop. Herd immunity is the only known cure. I hate to sound like a dick as I have no wish for anyone to be ill. However with no cure and no real treatment on the horizon the absolute best we can hope for is to keep our hospital system and most vulnerable protected while the rest of us get it.

Think I’m wrong, great! Show me the path to a cure, please!

That being said, any region with 98.7% of it’s ICU full should be locked back down and hard.
Josh[/quote]

What makes you so convinced that a vaccine won’t happen?

[barnaby33]

What makes you so convinced that a vaccine won’t happen?

Good question! I have two points to make as an answer. First how many viruses have we cured? The answer is very few, almost zero. A good writeup is from here:

The reasons involve biology and, to a lesser extent, money. Drug companies have developed treatments for a handful of viruses in the last few decades, such as HIV and the flu, but the arsenal is minimal when compared with all the antibiotics we have for treating bacteria. Remember that viruses are not bacteria, so antibiotics are no help.

The main difficulty is that viruses are technically not alive, instead depending on the “machinery” inside human cells to reproduce, said Zachary A. Klase, associate professor of biology at the University of the Sciences. So a drug that targets any part of that parasitic cycle could harm the patient in the process.

“You want something that targets the sickness and not you,” he said. “You need to look for the special things that only the virus is doing.”

Second is that even if a researcher today identified exactly how to block transmission or reproduction of the virus it takes a long time to weaponize it. Only in movies and even then needing a montage, is a cure or a weapon developed in short order. It takes a long time, measured in years to produce, distribute and administer a treatment or cure. Given those two data points alone it would be nothing short of the second coming of Jeebus if a cure arrived before herd immunity. It’s not impossible it’s just not probable.

Given that all the fractured news we have focusing on infection rates and with the none-too-subtle subtext of how awful this is are way off the mark. The messaging needs to be, heard immunity is the goal, here are the effective strategies to preserve as much life as we can while developing it and infections especially asymptomatic ones are a good thing for the population as a whole.
Josh

[spdrun]

^^^

you don’t need a perfect cure like in the movies. Even a combination of existing treatments that reduces death rate by 90% and reduces hospitalization time by 50-75% would be a wonderful thing.

Even a vaccine that’s 50% effective would put a big dent in COVID transmission and allow fairly mild measures (basic hygiene, masks) to do the rest. The herd immunity threshold isn’t fixed — it’s dependent on culture and behaviour.

Herd immunity is the unspoken goal (Newsom has discussed it), but the interim goal is not to have a high death rate or to overwhelm hospitals. If hospitals are at risk of overload like in Riverside and Imperial Counties, then temporary measures need to be taken to reduce transmission.

Oh, and wear your damn masks, people. If we can reduce transmission via fairly non-intrusive technology like masks, it reduces the need for other, more unpleasant, social distancing measures.

[barnaby33]

Herd immunity isn’t fixed, you’re right. We don’t even know for certain if it exists with Covid-19. Lard help us all if there isn’t any such thing.
Josh

[DWCAP]

Actually SARS-1 virus in 2003 had anti-body immunity measured at about ~24months. Most flu virus’s immunity only lasts about 8 months. The human body SUCKS at remembering COVID type virus’s, and yes, you can get both the flu (and prob) COVID-19 repeatedly. I have no idea where people get the idea this is a one and done virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851497/

My feeling is that we will all have an experience with COVID-19. Most of us (esp under the age of 60) will get it, have no idea, and be done with it. This will be repeated bi-annually (24-36 months) unless the virus mutates away from us (if ever).

Every year a few will get sick, and a even smaller number need hospitalization. We already have a MUCH MUCH better idea how to treat this disease (notice no one talks about ventilators anymore, they were a mistake). A very small number of people, overwhelmingly over 65, will die of it. Some people may be able to hold out for a vaccine, maybe, but I doubt it’ll be more than 50-60% effective, will last more than 1-2 years (so you’ll get it annually) and will have other side effects that will mean some people shouldn’t be taking it. Even if there is a great vaccine, it will be like the measles, hiding just out of sight and constantly flaring up when people get dumb and don’t vaccinate.
The reality is everyone’s life expectancy just got alittle bit shorter and we as a country need to realize this and deal with it. This is why we have the WHO and normal health protocols where we praise Dr’s for finding these things early, not arrest them. The time to stop a disease like this is when it is first discovered. China blew that one and everyone pays for it.

[zk]

[quote=barnaby33]

What makes you so convinced that a vaccine won’t happen?

Good question! I have two points to make as an answer. First how many viruses have we cured? The answer is very few, almost zero.
[/quote]
I asked about a vaccine and you answered about a cure. Not the same thing.

The reasons involve biology and, to a lesser extent, money. Drug companies have developed treatments for a handful of viruses in the last few decades, such as HIV and the flu, but the arsenal is minimal when compared with all the antibiotics we have for treating bacteria. Remember that viruses are not bacteria, so antibiotics are no help.

The main difficulty is that viruses are technically not alive, instead depending on the “machinery” inside human cells to reproduce, said Zachary A. Klase, associate professor of biology at the University of the Sciences. So a drug that targets any part of that parasitic cycle could harm the patient in the process.

“You want something that targets the sickness and not you,” he said. “You need to look for the special things that only the virus is doing.”

More talk about treatments and cures. Not the same thing.
[quote=barnaby33]

Second is that even if a researcher today identified exactly how to block transmission or reproduction of the virus it takes a long time to weaponize it. Only in movies and even then needing a montage, is a cure or a weapon developed in short order. It takes a long time, measured in years to produce, distribute and administer a treatment or cure. Given those two data points alone it would be nothing short of the second coming of Jeebus if a cure arrived before herd immunity. It’s not impossible it’s just not probable.
[/quote]

It does generally take years. But the process can be expedited to some degree, and it will be if the situation is urgent enough. Which this situation is. Also, new technologies are showing promise for faster vaccine development, although clinical trials will require time regardless of technology. Running clinical trials in parallel is expensive, but saves time. In this case there are quite a few being run at the same time.

Some of the more important viruses for which we have developed a vaccine:

Polio
Smallpox
Rubella
Measles
Rotavirus
Chickenpox

[TeCKis300]

Not disagreeing.

But there is a big difference between moderating and controlling the rate at which this takes place

versus

let’s all throw caution to the wind because we’re all going to get it and party up.

Difference is time. Time provides humanity opportunity to better understand the virus and mitigate its impacts. Time will show us more effective strategies for prophylactics, treatments, and potentially cures.

I would rather my vulnerable family members or myself get sick, when there are more options.

Unfortunately, its a community decision with the lowest common denominator dictating the primary trajectory.

[scaredyclassic]

Riverside bars just closed down.

[outtamojo]

AZ just activated its crisis standard of care plan aka healthcare rationing.

Arizona activates hospital plan with guidance for rationing health care

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-06-30/hiltzik-arizona-rationing-healthcare-coronavirus-covid-19

[spdrun]

Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.

[gogogosandiego]

[quote=spdrun]Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.[/quote]

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/06/13/photos-videos-posted-to-social-media-show-streets-packed-with-people-outside-manhattan-bars-restaurants-friday-night/

[Coronita]

[quote=spdrun]Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.[/quote]

Glad that you survived covid in NYC, because for a moment you went dark and thought something bad happened… I’m sure it must have been a terrifying ordeal being in an epicenter watching lots of people die and to think you could catch it and die from it. I would havee been scared straight.But I guess now that NYC is getting better, and no longer the epicenter, you don’t need to worry and stress about it anymore and you can resume the normalcy…in wishing others elsewhere die. Some people will never learn even after a brush with death 🙁

[spdrun]

I don’t want people to die. I want people to WEAR MASKS and take other basic precautions, even if complete distancing is impractical. Yet people are screaming that masks are some sort of NWO/Chinese conspiracy designed to impurify their precious bodily fluids. If people are really that dumb, maybe the only choice is to let it spread to minimize the duration of the agony, even if the magnitude is increased.

Also, the odds of hospitalization for someone under 60 are about 0.8%. Divide that by an 20% chance of infection, and you get 0.2% chance of hospitalization. Say 10% of hospitalized patients died; the chance of death under age 60 was likely about 0.02%. Hardly a brush.

[livinincali]

[quote=spdrun]Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.[/quote]

The CDC itself doesn’t believe in face masks preventing anything. Handwashing it fairly proven but that’s hard to measure with viral photos, wearing facewmasks is easy. You can public shame someone for not wearing a facemask but hand washing not so much.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

[quote]
Face Masks

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
[/quote]

Bottom line Covid ain’t going away and a vaccine is unlikely to work. It’s probably time to just live with it and let the cards fall where they may. Thinking another couple of months of social distancing and face masks is going to resolve it is a pipe dream.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=livinincali][quote=spdrun]Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.[/quote]

The CDC itself doesn’t believe in face masks preventing anything. Handwashing it fairly proven but that’s hard to measure with viral photos, wearing facewmasks is easy. You can public shame someone for not wearing a facemask but hand washing not so much.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

[quote]
Face Masks

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
[/quote]

Bottom line Covid ain’t going away and a vaccine is unlikely to work. It’s probably time to just live with it and let the cards fall where they may. Thinking another couple of months of social distancing and face masks is going to resolve it is a pipe dream.[/quote]

that’s the spirit that made America great!

Other countries managed to control it. we just suck, so let it rip. They’re jealous of our freedom.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=scaredyclassic][/quote
that’s the spirit that made America great!

Other countries managed to control it. we just suck, so let it rip. They’re jealous of our freedom.[/quote]

Not quite true (OK there are a few much much smaller countries that appear to have done a better job) but even in china they are having second waves and mostly in the hardest hit areas it was more of a burn out.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=scaredyclassic][/quote
that’s the spirit that made America great!

Other countries managed to control it. we just suck, so let it rip. They’re jealous of our freedom.[/quote]

Not quite true (OK there are a few much much smaller countries that appear to have done a better job) but even in china they are having second waves and mostly in the hardest hit areas it was more of a burn out.[/quote]

i think we have 25% of the worlds cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

we are just a tiny bit of the worlds population but we use a disproportionately large share of its resources and its covid.

i think it is not unfair to say that we really truly suck as a nation at dealing with this. we might be good at other things, like buying tons of crap we dont need, and creating awesome weaponry, but at caring for one another and our health? we are the pits.

[The-Shoveler]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru…?

IMO it is not even close to accurate count.

IMO China far under reported by 10 – 20 fold

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=The-Shoveler]https://www.worldometers.info/coronaviru…?

IMO it is not even close to accurate count.

IMO China far under reported by 10 – 20 fold[/quote]

Excluding china, us still near top on per capita counts. Unless the whole worlds lying.

As the buddhists say, tho, how do you not burn when the whole worlds on fire.

We couldve done a more controlled burn…

[gogogosandiego]

[quote=livinincali][quote=spdrun]Since the US (outside of NY and a few other states) can’t seem to handle basic fucking precautions like wearing masks, the cynic in me says maybe it’s best to let it go, infect and kill where it may, burn out, so we can return to normal standards of healthcare. I can understand not liking full lockdowns, but I feel like the anti-mask, anti-science crowd has made its bed. Let them lie in it with a bucket full of bedbugs.

We in the NY area should just institute hard border controls to keep ‘zonies from coming in.[/quote]

The CDC itself doesn’t believe in face masks preventing anything. Handwashing it fairly proven but that’s hard to measure with viral photos, wearing facewmasks is easy. You can public shame someone for not wearing a facemask but hand washing not so much.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

[quote]
Face Masks

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2). One study evaluated the use of masks among pilgrims from Australia during the Hajj pilgrimage and reported no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group (33). Two studies in university settings assessed the effectiveness of face masks for primary protection by monitoring the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza among student hall residents for 5 months (9,10). The overall reduction in ILI or laboratory-confirmed influenza cases in the face mask group was not significant in either studies (9,10). Study designs in the 7 household studies were slightly different: 1 study provided face masks and P2 respirators for household contacts only (34), another study evaluated face mask use as a source control for infected persons only (35), and the remaining studies provided masks for the infected persons as well as their close contacts (11–13,15,17). None of the household studies reported a significant reduction in secondary laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the face mask group (11–13,15,17,34,35). Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
[/quote]

Bottom line Covid ain’t going away and a vaccine is unlikely to work. It’s probably time to just live with it and let the cards fall where they may. Thinking another couple of months of social distancing and face masks is going to resolve it is a pipe dream.[/quote]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

[zk]

[quote=livinincali]
The CDC itself doesn’t believe in face masks preventing anything.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR2V1hPqN0WKb2kXVExP_1UE9ARvru6mtPZvZN0w1jx0S3l3fXLhxMP_bXs

[/quote]

That article said masks don’t necessarily slow the spread of influenza, not that they don’t slow the spread of “anything.” This coronavirus and the flu are not the same thing and they don’t spread exactly the same way. Here are the CDC’s recommendations regarding coronavirus and facemasks:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

It says we should be wearing masks in public.

[quote=livinincali]
Bottom line Covid ain’t going away and a vaccine is unlikely to work. It’s probably time to just live with it and let the cards fall where they may. [/quote]

A vaccine is unlikely to work? Where are you getting that from?

[The-Shoveler]

4th of July pretty much canceled.
Really dumb IMO
This is already a real bummer all around but Cancelling the 4th will do little but just force people in even closer proximity to each other for longer in back yards etc..

[outtamojo]

Cancel everything so kids can have some form of school in the fall.
Our adult “leaders” have f*cked [email protected] up.

Who raised these losers?

https://people.com/health/alabama-teens-throw-coronavirus-themed-parties-with-payout-reward-for-anyone-who-gets-infected/

[Coronita]

[quote=outtamojo]Cancel everything so kids can have some form of school in the fall.
Our adult “leaders” have f*cked [email protected] up.

Who raised these losers?

https://people.com/health/alabama-teens-throw-coronavirus-themed-parties-with-payout-reward-for-anyone-who-gets-infected/%5B/quote%5D

The same sort of people that would try tik tok challenge to pass a penny between two prongs stuck in an electrical outlet and eventually accidentally setting fire to a house…

I call this Darwin at work 🙂

[scaredyclassic]

ha ha herman cain in hospital for covid after attending tulsa rally. maybe trump really will get infected from tulsa rally.

young people are largely democrat, republicans primarily the oldsters.

forget gerrymandering or ballot shenanigans…the ‘publicans need to keep these geezers alive to vote to stay in power! republicans should probably be more prudent with the masks and lockdowns. i could see a scenario where old people are afraid to leave the house to vote and arent afforded absentee ballots. that would be really funny.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-who-posted-regret-attending-party-died-day-later-n1232675?fbclid=IwAR398JR_Wits38JVRReZDYdPpYFSD4aa2kyIfKFRDwsHjRR5tsrSzD0TWi4

riverside county regrets….the cost of being overweight and diabetic is coming home to roost. like saving money is good for weathering bad times, being trim and with a good body system is good for weathering pandemics; me, I’ll probably just die because i have so little will to live. i think i have very little fight left. great bloodwork, fit, but no desire for anything.

[outtamojo]

You are out of mojo.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=outtamojo]You are out of mojo.[/quote]

Motel, money, murder, madness
Let’s change the mood from glad to sadness

Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Got to keep on risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Mojo Risin’, gotta Mojo Risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, gotta keep on risin’
Risin’, risin’
Gone risin’, risin’
I’m gone risin’, risin’
I gotta risin’, risin’
Well, risin’, risin’
I gotta, woo, yeah, risin’
Whoa, oh, yeah

[scaredyclassic]

how did i get so old and worn out

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=scaredyclassic]how did i get so old and worn out[/quote]

To be honest I think the stress of this whole thing is wearing on everybody.

[outtamojo]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=scaredyclassic]how did i get so old and worn out[/quote]

To be honest I think the stress of this whole thing is wearing on everybody.[/quote]

The stress is from the way things aren’t working and the knowledge that things could be and should be better.

Things go double for us in the medical field.

On a brighter note, looks like we are going to open a new pandemic office . Such a fresh imaginative approach!

[sdrealtor]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=outtamojo]You are out of mojo.[/quote]

Motel, money, murder, madness
Let’s change the mood from glad to sadness

Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Got to keep on risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, Mr. Mojo Risin’
Mojo Risin’, gotta Mojo Risin’
Mr. Mojo Risin’, gotta keep on risin’
Risin’, risin’
Gone risin’, risin’
I’m gone risin’, risin’
I gotta risin’, risin’
Well, risin’, risin’
I gotta, woo, yeah, risin’
Whoa, oh, yeah[/quote]

Watched a couple great Doors documentaries on AXS last night

[DWCAP]

[quote=zk]

A vaccine is unlikely to work? Where are you getting that from?[/quote]

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-vaccine-may-be-impossible-to-produce-scientists-covid-2020-4

Google it. This is from end of April, but I think most of the concerns are still valid. It isn’t like we have not been trying to make a Coronavirus vaccine before.

“We’ve tried getting vaccines for coronaviruses before, particularly SARS and MERS. We just haven’t done it yet. We think this is going to be a hard effort.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/science/story/2020-06-06/race-for-vaccine

[zk]

[quote=DWCAP][quote=zk]

A vaccine is unlikely to work? Where are you getting that from?[/quote]

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-vaccine-may-be-impossible-to-produce-scientists-covid-2020-4

Google it. This is from end of April, but I think most of the concerns are still valid. It isn’t like we have not been trying to make a Coronavirus vaccine before.

“We’ve tried getting vaccines for coronaviruses before, particularly SARS and MERS. We just haven’t done it yet. We think this is going to be a hard effort.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/science/story/2020-06-06/race-for-vaccine%5B/quote%5D

Nothing in either of those articles says a vaccine is “unlikely to work.”

There is a lot of concern that finding a vaccine will take more time than we would like. There is concern that it’ll have to be taken annually or that it will not be 100% effective.

There is some concern that we won’t find one. That is possible. But likely? If anyone is saying that it’s likely that we won’t find one that works (and I haven’t read anyone saying that) they’re in the minority.

[svelte]

[quote=zk]

Nothing in either of those articles says a vaccine is “unlikely to work.”

….

There is some concern that we won’t find one. That is possible. But likely? If anyone is saying that it’s likely that we won’t find one that works (and I haven’t read anyone saying that) they’re in the minority.[/quote]

?

“unlikely to work” = “won’t find one” = “won’t find one that works”.

If we “find” a vaccine and it doesn’t work, then it wasn’t a vaccine, was it?

[zk]

Looks like staffing is more of an issue than ICU beds for Riverside County.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-29/riverside-county-icu-beds-hit-99-capacity-the-situation-may-not-be-as-dire-as-it-seems

[outtamojo]

Some are being sent to NorCal
https://www.mercurynews.com/overwhelmed-southern-california-transferring-coronavirus-patients-to-bay-area-hospitals

[DWCAP]

[quote=zk][quote=DWCAP]

“We’ve tried getting vaccines for coronaviruses before, particularly SARS and MERS. We just haven’t done it yet. We think this is going to be a hard effort.”[/quote]

Nothing in either of those articles says a vaccine is “unlikely to work.”

There is a lot of concern that finding a vaccine will take more time than we would like. There is concern that it’ll have to be taken annually or that it will not be 100% effective.

There is some concern that we won’t find one. That is possible. But likely? If anyone is saying that it’s likely that we won’t find one that works (and I haven’t read anyone saying that) they’re in the minority.[/quote]

I don’t understand. what standard are you using? We have never created a Coronavirus vaccine that is acceptable after 30+ years of trying. We have new, poorly understood, highly contagious virus which is able to spread without and even before symptoms. We have an virus that seems to prey upon the sick and infirm, who are the most difficult to defend.

Please define ‘unlikely to work’ because ‘Thing we have never done before in a time frame we have never accomplished’ seems to qualify to me.

The FDA just announced that any approved vaccine would need to be 50% effect or better to be approved in full phase III clinical trials. This is inline with our best flu vaccines, and only means 1/2 people are protected/ symptoms reduced per vaccination. Flu season is an annual thing that claims tens of thousands of lives annually, and we can’t stop it. I need to know what you mean by ‘work’ because I think most people erroneously think it means ‘stop the spread of COVID-19’. Even the experts are not holding out for that.

[spdrun]

50% is most of the way to herd immunity … it would at least allow for much less drastic precautions against spread. Assuming that herd immunity is 60-70%, not lower as more recent studies suggest.

[zk]

[quote=DWCAP]
[quote=zk][quote=DWCAP]

“We’ve tried getting vaccines for coronaviruses before, particularly SARS and MERS. We just haven’t done it yet. We think this is going to be a hard effort.”[/quote]

Nothing in either of those articles says a vaccine is “unlikely to work.”

There is a lot of concern that finding a vaccine will take more time than we would like. There is concern that it’ll have to be taken annually or that it will not be 100% effective.

There is some concern that we won’t find one. That is possible. But likely? If anyone is saying that it’s likely that we won’t find one that works (and I haven’t read anyone saying that) they’re in the minority.

[/quote]

I don’t understand. what standard are you using? We have never created a Coronavirus vaccine that is acceptable after 30+ years of trying. We have new, poorly understood, highly contagious virus which is able to spread without and even before symptoms. We have an virus that seems to prey upon the sick and infirm, who are the most difficult to defend.

Please define ‘unlikely to work’ because ‘Thing we have never done before in a time frame we have never accomplished’ seems to qualify to me.

The FDA just announced that any approved vaccine would need to be 50% effect or better to be approved in full phase III clinical trials. This is inline with our best flu vaccines, and only means 1/2 people are protected/ symptoms reduced per vaccination. Flu season is an annual thing that claims tens of thousands of lives annually, and we can’t stop it. I need to know what you mean by ‘work’ because I think most people erroneously think it means ‘stop the spread of COVID-19’. Even the experts are not holding out for that.[/quote]

You’ve quoted me out of context. My response of “Nothing in either of those articles says a vaccine is ‘unlikely to work’…“ was in response to your post that had links to two articles (neither of which said the vaccine was unlikely to work). It was not in response to the post that you showed it was in response to. Please don’t quote me out of context.

[quote=DWCAP]

I don’t understand. what standard are you using? We have never created a Coronavirus vaccine that is acceptable after 30+ years of trying. We have new, poorly understood, highly contagious virus which is able to spread without and even before symptoms. We have an virus that seems to prey upon the sick and infirm, who are the most difficult to defend.

Please define ‘unlikely to work’ because ‘Thing we have never done before in a time frame we have never accomplished’ seems to qualify to me.
[/quote]
That certainly is concerning. But the magnitude of this problem is such that unprecedented resources will be spent on it. It’s certainly possible that that will result in unprecedented results. (I’ll address the standard later in the post.)

In any case, I’m not saying a vaccine is likely to work. I don’t know, and I’m trying to find out. I asked, in response to a statement of “a vaccine is unlikely to work” the question “where are you getting that from?” It wasn’t a rhetorical question. I am concerned with whether a vaccine will work (as everybody should be) and if there’s credible information saying that it’s unlikely to work, I want to know about it. You provided two articles, neither of which said a vaccine is unlikely to work.

I am certainly open to credible information that says a vaccine is unlikely to work. If it’s out there, I really very much want to see it. I’m trying to get at the truth, as always. I just haven’t seen such information out there yet. I thought livinincali knew something that I didn’t, so I asked about it. I’m asking you the same thing.

The fact that we’ve never developed a vaccine for a coronavirus certainly is concerning. One could make the argument that that makes developing a vaccine for this coronavirus unlikely. But I’d like to see that argument made from a scientist – or preferably several or even a consensus of scientists – who are experts in the field. So far I’ve seen some scientists who say it may not be possible or “we think this is going to be a hard effort.” So I’m on board with those positions. But I haven’t seen “unlikely” (or anything equivalent to “unlikely”) from any scientists yet.

[quote=DWCAP]

The FDA just announced that any approved vaccine would need to be 50% effect or better to be approved in full phase III clinical trials. This is inline with our best flu vaccines, and only means 1/2 people are protected/ symptoms reduced per vaccination. Flu season is an annual thing that claims tens of thousands of lives annually, and we can’t stop it. I need to know what you mean by ‘work’ because I think most people erroneously think it means ‘stop the spread of COVID-19’. Even the experts are not holding out for that.[/quote]

By “work” I don’t mean completely eradicate. I mean, at a minimum, provide the same kind of protection as a flu vaccine. You might still get it, but you’re a lot less likely to get very sick or die from it.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don’t think that 50% effective means that only half the people are protected/symptoms reduced. That would mean that half the people get no protection at all. I don’t think that’s the case. I read the CDC’s page on it, and it’s a bit unclear. If you have any clarification, I’d be interested to read it.

[barnaby33]

let’s all throw caution to the wind because we’re all going to get it and party up.

Now that’s a straw man argument! Prophylactics will reduce the risk to you now, not society over the medium to long term.
Josh

[barnaby33]

To the poster who wants me to differentiate between treatment and cure, why? We have neither and the vast preponderance of evidence screams loudly that we will not be able to produce, test and manufacture either in a time frame which would mitigate anybody from catching this if they are susceptible.

The amount of fuzzy thinking and shiny graphics is just stunning. People simply do not want to accept reality. It reminds me of why religion remains popular. You’re going to die folks. So am I. I’d like it to be later rather than sooner, but sadly it’s not entirely up to me me me….

Wear a mask if you like the virtue signaling as I do. Avoid others as the only real way to stave off your individual risk (just know that you are willingly contributing to other forms of death by doing so.)

In a case like the Corona virus and with a govt as hopelessly broken as we have right now, there is practically speaking no cure or effective blocking treatment that can be deployed, hence herd immunity is the ONLY way to restore normalcy.

Josh

[zk]

[quote=barnaby33]

To the poster who wants me to differentiate between treatment and cure, why?
[/quote]
If you’re talking about me, I wasn’t asking you to differentiate between treatment and cure. I was asking you to differentiate between a vaccine and a treatment/cure. A vaccine is something you get before you get the disease, and it prevents you from getting it or prevents you from getting a bad case of it. A treatment mitigates the effects of the disease after you get it. A cure eliminates the disease after you get it. The reason I was asking you to differentiate is because I wanted you to show me the evidence that a vaccine wasn’t going to happen. You gave me evidence that a treatment or a cure won’t happen.

[quote=barnaby33]
We have neither and the vast preponderance of evidence screams loudly that we will not be able to produce, test and manufacture either in a time frame which would mitigate anybody from catching this if they are susceptible.
[/quote]

Show me this vast preponderance of loudly screaming evidence that shows we won’t get a vaccine in time to keep susceptible people from getting COVID. (If, indeed, you think we won’t have a vaccine. You’ve really only addressed treatments and cures so far.) I am genuinely interested in seeing it.

[quote=barnaby33]

The amount of fuzzy thinking and shiny graphics is just stunning.
[/quote]
What fuzzy thinking, exactly?
[quote=barnaby33]

People simply do not want to accept reality.
[/quote]
I’m only interested in reality. That’s why I’m asking you to show me evidence of what you’re talking about.

[quote=barnaby33]
Wear a mask if you like the virtue signaling as I do.
[/quote]
Do you think that virtue signaling is the only thing masks are good for?

[quote=barnaby33]

In a case like the Corona virus and with a govt as hopelessly broken as we have right now, there is practically speaking no cure or effective blocking treatment that can be deployed, hence herd immunity is the ONLY way to restore normalcy.

[/quote]

Herd immunity through natural infection might not be possible.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

If that’s the case, it makes the search for a vaccine that much more important.

[zk]

This article covers some of the difficulties of producing a vaccine, and also some treatments that are in development. These treatments could be available before a vaccine.

It basically suggests that a vaccine could take a long time, and we might end up using masks, physical distancing, and quarantine until we get a treatment, and then use that treatment until we get a vaccine.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/opinions/covid-19-treatment-reason-for-hope-haseltine/index.html

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=zk]
It basically suggests that a vaccine could take a long time, and we might end up using masks, physical distancing, and quarantine until we get a treatment, and then use that treatment until we get a vaccine.
[/quote]

IMO At some point we will reach burnout before any of the above.

We already seem to be lowering the death rate as well.

[zk]

[quote=The-Shoveler]
IMO At some point we will reach burnout before any of the above.

We already seem to be lowering the death rate as well.[/quote]

Burnout. Interesting concept.

Places where it’s peaked do seem to have lower rates. But sometimes those rates start to rise again.

Why do those lower rates happen? Is it because the peak scared everybody and they’re being careful with their social distancing and whatnot? Is there some scientific, medical reason? Will those lower rates stay low in most areas? Is strict social distancing required to keep those rates low? Is there some sort of minimal herd immunity involved? If there is, will it last?

I don’t know the answers to any of the above, despite a bit of searching. Any (credible, scientific) information anyone has would be helpful.

[The-Shoveler]

Virus Just seems to run out fuel at around 20% infected.

Cruise ships, really really hard hit areas etc…

[zk]

[quote=The-Shoveler]Virus Just seems to run out fuel at around 20% infected.

Cruise ships, really really hard hit areas etc…[/quote]

Yeah, but why, and, more importantly, will it last?

[sdrealtor]

[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO Family gatherings are highest risk.

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Walking on beach probably fairly low risk.[/quote]

Only because thats who you spend most of your time close to. Spend time near strangers and I doubt the risk is lower

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=sdrealtor]Only because thats who you spend most of your time close to. Spend time near strangers and I doubt the risk is lower[/quote]

I think that is the whole point (we don’t spend much time with strangers).
But I do understand your point as well in the case of your sister.

Just wear a mask when close proximity (indoors especially), wash your hands, self isolate if you feel vulnerable.

Tell your extended family to stay away for now.

BTW China is now using/distributing a vaccine (mostly for its own military, but there are some civilian as well).
I guess they think it works.

[svelte]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=The-Shoveler]IMO Family gatherings are highest risk.

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Studies say you’re more likely to get coronavirus from family than strangers

Walking on beach probably fairly low risk.[/quote]

Only because thats who you spend most of your time close to. Spend time near strangers and I doubt the risk is lower[/quote]

yeah its like that old statistic that most car accidents happen within (x) miles of your house…that’s because thats where people do most of their driving!

My son was telling me it’s not only who you come in contact with, but for how long…risk goes up with length of time. Sounds true to me. Which may also explain why getting it from family members is becoming common.

[Coronita]

The environment we are in is almost a perfect storm for getting taken out. Social unrest, economic unrest, chaotic government.

I don’t see us finding a vaccine. I think this is probably a Darwin selection process in the making….

I keep saying, take care of yourself and your loved ones. Nothing is really that serious and no amount of money will help if you’re dead.

We just got to survive the rest of 2020… that’s it.

[outtamojo]

[quote=Coronita]The environment we are in is almost a perfect storm for getting taken out. Social unrest, economic unrest, chaotic government.

I don’t see us finding a vaccine. I think this is probably a Darwin selection process in the making….

I keep saying, take care of yourself and your loved ones. Nothing is really that serious and no amount of money will help if you’re dead.

We just got to survive the rest of 2020… that’s it.[/quote]

We have just shown hostile actors how to take down America. Wont work with the E.U, Asian nations and others but will work perfectly here.

The N. Koreas, Irans, Russians most likely bumping up their bio weapon budgets.

[carlsbadworker]

Just want to point out that from the bright side, the group of people who don’t wear the mask today are going to be the same group of people who will refuse to get vaccinated when the COVID vaccine comes out. So if you want to pick up a time for them to get immunity, now is most likely the best time.

[The-Shoveler]

^^^^

I guess this is where we test the 20% burn out theory.

The way I understand it about 80% of the population has at least some natural immunity according to the theory anyway.

[outtamojo]

[quote=The-Shoveler]^^^^

I guess this is where we test the 20% burn out theory.

The way I understand it about 80% of the population has at least some natural immunity according to the theory anyway.[/quote]

The risk is there are still too many unknowns re the damage covid can cause to the body.

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/coronavirus_coverage/new-arizona-concern-study-shows-asymptomatic-covid-patients-could-have-long-term-lung-damage/article_64903642-bb36-11ea-b48c-efd576ab9ba1.html

If you start with permanent lung damage and then stack the usual comorbidities as you age then saving for a nice retirement
might not seem like a good idea.

[The-Shoveler]

IMO the Idea behind the “20% burn out theory” is that most likely in NYC it is already “done” (over) for the most part anyway and they are unlikely to see a large spike in new cases.

[DWCAP]

I would just like to point out a few key details here. This isn’t a ‘no beds for you level’ of crisis.

1) Many ICU’s run in the low to mid 90’s% full at any given time, even pre-Covid. So, 85-95% ICU beds taken is “normal”.

2) Of the ICU patients in hospital right now in Riverside, 28% are due to COVID-19. All Hospital beds are only 63% occupied right now, so alot of beds can be expanded, and non-critical surgeries and medical care can be delayed again to free up more beds. Remember, if 28% of ICU patients are COVID, than 72% of beds are not COVID. These turn over quickly.

3) San Bernadino County has only 82% of beds taken, which is actually rather low.

Surgeries can be moved or delayed. ICU beds turn over daily. There is more than 1 hospital “nearby”. There are beds available if needed.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=DWCAP]I would just like to point out a few key details here. This isn’t a ‘no beds for you level’ of crisis.

1) Many ICU’s run in the low to mid 90’s% full at any given time, even pre-Covid. So, 85-95% ICU beds taken is “normal”.

2) Of the ICU patients in hospital right now in Riverside, 28% are due to COVID-19. All Hospital beds are only 63% occupied right now, so alot of beds can be expanded, and non-critical surgeries and medical care can be delayed again to free up more beds. Remember, if 28% of ICU patients are COVID, than 72% of beds are not COVID. These turn over quickly.

3) San Bernadino County has only 82% of beds taken, which is actually rather low.

Surgeries can be moved or delayed. ICU beds turn over daily. There is more than 1 hospital “nearby”. There are beds available if needed.[/quote]

ty. i feel better.

maybe its like looking at any trend. the mind tends to follow any curve out into paradise or disaster.

looks like the govt also is scared of the curve. further shutdowns ordered.

[svelte]

What DWCAP says sounds spot on. I have no doubt s/he’s right.

[Coronita]

Find a hobby. Breath…. Relax…

I’m on my 4th attempt at trying to paint my trunk lid of my old car. Now that’s stressful and frustrating….

I think i need to buy a better HVLP paint gun. I might do that this weekend at Harbor Freight.

[svelte]

Common current theory as to why infection rates are increasing yet death rates aren’t (yet) is because it is younger people that are catching it – they’re less likely to die from it.

There is anecdotal evidence from hospital workers to support this, I have read, though I’m sure no scientific study on it.

I keep a running weekly tally of death rates in several areas of interest (to me) and the area that did away with lockdown first did see a jump in death rates last week. I’m anxious to see if that trend continues when I run the numbers later this week.

[ltsddd]

Saw a news clip yesterday. The doctors cited these reasons:

1. Invasive ventilators are absolutely last-ditch effort, last resort measure. They are relying more on non-invasive methods that don’t require intubation. My guess is a lot of folks died not because of the virus but because of the infections brought on by the intubations.

2. Lessons learned

3. Medications – they are using a variety of meds that have some effectiveness against the virus.

[Author]

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