60 mpg by 2025

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

Well, go back and look at the article you linked to. Clearly the stance of the environmentalists in that article is pro-regulation, silent on gas tax. Why is that? Why did you start this thread by saying this is a fantastic idea, yet you didn’t say anything about a gas tax?

And what about my question? What is the advantage of regulation over gas tax? If you can’t answer that, then why are you and so many others shouting for regulation, but keeping quiet on a gas tax? Please answer the question.

XBoxBoy[/quote]

I’m in favor of both regulation and a gas tax. Personally, I don’t use that much gas. Gas prices could quadruple and I would barely notice. I think we need regulation to encourage manufacturers to build more fuel-efficient vehicles and a gas tax to entice consumes to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles.

I couldn’t find an official stance from the Sierra Club (one of the environmental groups listed in the article), but this article indicates that the Sierra Club has supported gas taxes in the past:

http://www.carleton.ca/JMC/cnews/29092000/n6.htm

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]

What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]

CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.

You can read more about CAFE here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.

By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]

‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.

[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]

Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.

It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?

[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.

Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]

What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]

CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.

You can read more about CAFE here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.

By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]

‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.

[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]

Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.

It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?

[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.

Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]

What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]

CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.

You can read more about CAFE here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.

By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]

‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.

[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]

Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.

It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?

[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.

Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]

What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]

CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.

You can read more about CAFE here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.

By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]

‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.

[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]

Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.

It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?

[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.

Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=sdduuuude]
Who has the friggin right to tell me what car I can drive and how much gas I can put in it?
[/quote]

What right do you have to pollute the air that all of us breathe and the water that all of us drink? It’s perfectly valid for a government to balance one person’s desire to pollute against the rest of the populations’ right to clean air and water.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Furthermore – how much money would we spend enforcing a regulation like this?
[/quote]

CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) has been enforced since 1975. This is nothing new. The current standard for passenger cars is 27.5 mpg and increases to 30.2 mpg in 2011. The only thing new here is the proposed 60 mpg standard for 2025.

You can read more about CAFE here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFE_standards

Note that the current mpg standards for passenger cars are the same today as they were in 1990.

By the way, your whining about government telling you what kind of car to drive and how much gas to put in it is misplaced. If manufacturers don’t meet the mpg standards, they are merely assessed a fine. To me, this seems like a quite sensible way to make those who consume and pollute the most pay for the negative externalities (like war, environmental destruction, pollution, etc) that they force the rest of us to deal with.

[quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe we would have been driving 5 mph cars
[/quote]

‘mph’ is short for ‘miles per hour’. Miles per hour is a measurement of speed. What we are talking about in this thread is ‘mpg’ which is short for ‘miles per gallon’. Miles per gallon is a measurement of efficiency. It is possible for highly efficient cars to go fast, so neither myself, the government, nor anyone else in this thread is trying to attempt to make you slow down. Again, your whining in this case is misplaced.

[quote=sdduuuude]
A market is a good way for multiple people to bring about a situation, or come to a conclusion together through individual action, and that situation may not always be what you like.
[/quote]

Markets don’t account for negative externalities and they don’t work well when the resource at issue is a non-renewable, finite resource.

It doesn’t cost British Petroleum anything to dump toxic waste in your water supply, but it could cost you your life. Wouldn’t you prefer that government attempt to account for this externality that would negatively affect you?

[quote=sdduuuude]
The original poster’s user name should be “BigGovernmentIsGoodButOnlyIfTheBig
GovernmentForcesPeopleToDoWhatIWantThemTo” and I would like to suggest China as a new home for you.

Just let people buy the car they want and deal with what happens. The market may not go the way you want it to. Tough crap. This ain’t Burger King – you can’t always have it your way.[/quote]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.

[Coronita]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.[/quote]

Ouch, dude, are you going take that from an non-enginerd???..Well, at least you know what the proper formula for ohm’s law… ( V= I/R right? 🙂 heh heh)

http://piggington.com/what_is_this_thing?page=1

[Coronita]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.[/quote]

Ouch, dude, are you going take that from an non-enginerd???..Well, at least you know what the proper formula for ohm’s law… ( V= I/R right? 🙂 heh heh)

http://piggington.com/what_is_this_thing?page=1

[Coronita]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.[/quote]

Ouch, dude, are you going take that from an non-enginerd???..Well, at least you know what the proper formula for ohm’s law… ( V= I/R right? 🙂 heh heh)

http://piggington.com/what_is_this_thing?page=1

[Coronita]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.[/quote]

Ouch, dude, are you going take that from an non-enginerd???..Well, at least you know what the proper formula for ohm’s law… ( V= I/R right? 🙂 heh heh)

http://piggington.com/what_is_this_thing?page=1

[Coronita]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood]

You’ve demonstrated zero knowledge on CAFE, you don’t know the difference between the simple concepts of mpg and mph, and you don’t understand that markets do not account for externalities. I think I will continue to live in this country and fight against illogical, uninformed, emotional arguments such as yours, thank you very much.[/quote]

Ouch, dude, are you going take that from an non-enginerd???..Well, at least you know what the proper formula for ohm’s law… ( V= I/R right? 🙂 heh heh)

http://piggington.com/what_is_this_thing?page=1

[justme]

[/quote]
In another word, buy an appliance to get you from point A to point B.[/quote]

Yes, please, and thank you very much!

[justme]

[/quote]
In another word, buy an appliance to get you from point A to point B.[/quote]

Yes, please, and thank you very much!

[justme]

[/quote]
In another word, buy an appliance to get you from point A to point B.[/quote]

Yes, please, and thank you very much!

[justme]

[/quote]
In another word, buy an appliance to get you from point A to point B.[/quote]

Yes, please, and thank you very much!

[Author]

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