[SK in CV]

[quote=rnen]
I do not think anyone here would argue that she is not worthy of an education, it is how she gets it is the assue. [/quote]

I do wish that was true. It was almost exactly the question I asked, and there was, I believe, an unequivocal response. That John’s kids were more worthy than Jose’s kids.

As to your last paragraph, though I’m not pissed off about it, I don’t disagree.

[SK in CV]

[quote=rnen]
I do not think anyone here would argue that she is not worthy of an education, it is how she gets it is the assue. [/quote]

I do wish that was true. It was almost exactly the question I asked, and there was, I believe, an unequivocal response. That John’s kids were more worthy than Jose’s kids.

As to your last paragraph, though I’m not pissed off about it, I don’t disagree.

[SK in CV]

[quote=rnen]
I do not think anyone here would argue that she is not worthy of an education, it is how she gets it is the assue. [/quote]

I do wish that was true. It was almost exactly the question I asked, and there was, I believe, an unequivocal response. That John’s kids were more worthy than Jose’s kids.

As to your last paragraph, though I’m not pissed off about it, I don’t disagree.

[SK in CV]

[quote=rnen]
I do not think anyone here would argue that she is not worthy of an education, it is how she gets it is the assue. [/quote]

I do wish that was true. It was almost exactly the question I asked, and there was, I believe, an unequivocal response. That John’s kids were more worthy than Jose’s kids.

As to your last paragraph, though I’m not pissed off about it, I don’t disagree.

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain][quote=SK in CV]Do you really think that Jose’s 8 year old son really deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where his parents were born?[/quote]

SK in CV: Meet 8 year old Juanita from Paraguay. She is very cute and bright and innocent. She smiles a lot and is very likable.

Do you really think she deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where SHE was born? How arrogant!

Why should we discriminate based on a criteria as passe as physical location? Why not educate everyone in the whole world?

We can either fly everybody here for 18 or so years or we can just send out say 200 million teachers to do it on location. That’ll give class sizes of about 30 students per teacher. Hope that’s ok with you.[/quote]

I suppose you’ve made a point here. I have no idea what it is. I think Juanita is as worthy of an education as any other child. Unfortunately, living in Paraguay, with one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet, she’s unlikely to get much of an education. Hopefully her parents will find a way to sneak her across the border so we can provide it.

(And in case you were wondering, I would have no problem with a world without borders. In theory anyway.)

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain][quote=SK in CV]Do you really think that Jose’s 8 year old son really deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where his parents were born?[/quote]

SK in CV: Meet 8 year old Juanita from Paraguay. She is very cute and bright and innocent. She smiles a lot and is very likable.

Do you really think she deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where SHE was born? How arrogant!

Why should we discriminate based on a criteria as passe as physical location? Why not educate everyone in the whole world?

We can either fly everybody here for 18 or so years or we can just send out say 200 million teachers to do it on location. That’ll give class sizes of about 30 students per teacher. Hope that’s ok with you.[/quote]

I suppose you’ve made a point here. I have no idea what it is. I think Juanita is as worthy of an education as any other child. Unfortunately, living in Paraguay, with one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet, she’s unlikely to get much of an education. Hopefully her parents will find a way to sneak her across the border so we can provide it.

(And in case you were wondering, I would have no problem with a world without borders. In theory anyway.)

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain][quote=SK in CV]Do you really think that Jose’s 8 year old son really deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where his parents were born?[/quote]

SK in CV: Meet 8 year old Juanita from Paraguay. She is very cute and bright and innocent. She smiles a lot and is very likable.

Do you really think she deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where SHE was born? How arrogant!

Why should we discriminate based on a criteria as passe as physical location? Why not educate everyone in the whole world?

We can either fly everybody here for 18 or so years or we can just send out say 200 million teachers to do it on location. That’ll give class sizes of about 30 students per teacher. Hope that’s ok with you.[/quote]

I suppose you’ve made a point here. I have no idea what it is. I think Juanita is as worthy of an education as any other child. Unfortunately, living in Paraguay, with one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet, she’s unlikely to get much of an education. Hopefully her parents will find a way to sneak her across the border so we can provide it.

(And in case you were wondering, I would have no problem with a world without borders. In theory anyway.)

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain][quote=SK in CV]Do you really think that Jose’s 8 year old son really deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where his parents were born?[/quote]

SK in CV: Meet 8 year old Juanita from Paraguay. She is very cute and bright and innocent. She smiles a lot and is very likable.

Do you really think she deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where SHE was born? How arrogant!

Why should we discriminate based on a criteria as passe as physical location? Why not educate everyone in the whole world?

We can either fly everybody here for 18 or so years or we can just send out say 200 million teachers to do it on location. That’ll give class sizes of about 30 students per teacher. Hope that’s ok with you.[/quote]

I suppose you’ve made a point here. I have no idea what it is. I think Juanita is as worthy of an education as any other child. Unfortunately, living in Paraguay, with one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet, she’s unlikely to get much of an education. Hopefully her parents will find a way to sneak her across the border so we can provide it.

(And in case you were wondering, I would have no problem with a world without borders. In theory anyway.)

[SK in CV]

[quote=KSMountain][quote=SK in CV]Do you really think that Jose’s 8 year old son really deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where his parents were born?[/quote]

SK in CV: Meet 8 year old Juanita from Paraguay. She is very cute and bright and innocent. She smiles a lot and is very likable.

Do you really think she deserves less of an education than Joe’s son simply because of where SHE was born? How arrogant!

Why should we discriminate based on a criteria as passe as physical location? Why not educate everyone in the whole world?

We can either fly everybody here for 18 or so years or we can just send out say 200 million teachers to do it on location. That’ll give class sizes of about 30 students per teacher. Hope that’s ok with you.[/quote]

I suppose you’ve made a point here. I have no idea what it is. I think Juanita is as worthy of an education as any other child. Unfortunately, living in Paraguay, with one of the lowest literacy rates on the planet, she’s unlikely to get much of an education. Hopefully her parents will find a way to sneak her across the border so we can provide it.

(And in case you were wondering, I would have no problem with a world without borders. In theory anyway.)

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply.

You still have not answered my question as to Juan and Jose. Is it right to demand that Juan Legal sacrifice some of the quality of the education to his kids so that Jose Illegal can get the same quality education?[/quote]

No, I haven’t answered the question. Straw man argument. You’ll also note I haven’t expressed any opinion on any immigration issues. Indeed it begs the question. Your question is based on an unsubstantiated premise.

My position has nothing to do with arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement. It is arrogant and displays a sense of entitlement to be illegally within a country and to expect to be served with all of the ‘entitlements’ that a legal citizen pays for, while at the same time, paying for none if it.

Two entirely different issues. And more straw. Another conclusion based on an unsupported premise.

[quote]

If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

So far, it looks like your conclusions are being exposed as being weakly supported or just plain wrong.[/quote]

See here from the Tax Foundation:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

You only “know” that illegal immigrants don’t pay their fair share if you ignore the facts.

[quote]
Here are some things to ponder:
In Mexico, if you are in the country illegally, you are imprisoned in a Mexican jail. After you have served your term, you are deported.
In Mexico, if you have a health problem and are not a citizen, you have to pay cash up front or the hospital will not even see you. This is even true if you are critically injured.[/quote]

More straw. I’m not a resident of Mexico. I’m not a resident of the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Israel. I have problems with some of all those countries’ practices. But my opinion has no effect on their policies. What they do wrong has no bearing on what I think is right for this country.

[SK in CV]

[quote=ucodegen]

, I am simply dumbfounded by your sense of superiority, arrogance and entitlement. Hopefully I misunderstand you.

Ah, another personal attack. Lets try dealing with the facts instead of using emotionally charged words and phrases in an attempt to tilt the discussion.. followed by a ‘naw, you couldn’t be that bad a person, I must be misunderstanding you’ type of phrase.

In your previous post, what was the point of even bringing up ‘racists screed’? Emotionally charged words, yes.. and it attempts to shut down discussion by trying to associate my position with that of a racist (something commonly viewed untenable). Thereby in that mechanism, it is also ‘name calling’ through association.

[/quote]

The first time (racist screed) was not a personal attack. This one was. You can address it as you wish. But if you think that children, bearing no responsibility as to the situation they find themselves in, are less worthy than other children simply because of the legal status of their parents, then all three (arrogance, sense of superiority and entitlement) apply. There really is no getting around that.

As to the rest, yeah, if you ignore some of the evidence, and only accept that which supports your position, you’ll probably win every argument.

And shutting down discussion? We’re still talking. Stop your whining. You chose your words. If they lead to logical conclusions, don’t complain when those conclusions are exposed.

[Author]

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