Younger workers everywhere

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]yamashi, my kids are millenials but I don’t have any grandkids. My frame of reference are several families who are neighbors. All but one of them are renters and all have children. They range in age from 22-38 and have 2-7 kids and 3 of these families currently have more kids on the way. In all cases, one of the parents has never worked, which doesn’t bode well for being able to send any of these kids to college, but whatever …. There is no way in h@ll that I would ever have 2-3 kids in diapers at once and all too young to even attend 1st grade for the bulk of the day. In my mind, that’s “purposeful entrapment” but to each his/her own :-0.

The one family that owns their home bought it with in-laws on title because they could not qualify for it by themselves.[/quote]

BG not sure where you live, but I’m sorry that this is the sample of Millenial that you are exposed to. If I were in your position, I would feel the same way about our generation as you. Trust me, this is NOT a good representation.

Most people that I associate with either own their home, or rent and CHOOSE not to. They either have 1/2 kids, but don’t know many that have 3 and NONE that have more.

[millennial]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Yea, bring it back in 10 years. We will see how much cooler it is to live closer to the urban core. And yes, there is still land to build closer to the city.
Civita in mission valley, or temecula. The choice is easy. Remember those urban housing products didn’t exist before.[/quote]

FlyerInHi, you seem like a pretty smart and progressive person. Are you really a boomer (born before early 60’s), or a Gen Xer? I really enjoy what a lot of Millenials are doing by gentrifying areas to make them alive again. My younger sister is really into the movement too, but in Detroit. The revitalization of all of the history is such a cool thing and us as Millenials are working hard to bring it back.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi1] . . . BG not sure where you live, but I’m sorry that this is the sample of Millenial that you are exposed to. If I were in your position, I would feel the same way about our generation as you. Trust me, this is NOT a good representation.

Most people that I associate with either own their home, or rent and CHOOSE not to. They either have 1/2 kids, but don’t know many that have 3 and NONE that have more.[/quote]Well, it didn’t used to be like this, yamashi. Starting about 2008, “buy and hold” flippers began coming in here and buying and rehabbing longtime rentals and leasing them out. I was glad to see this, actually, because these rentals were getting really run down (50 yo roof, etc). Some had been purchased as “investments” during the “loose lending” era, never had any improvements made to them and were subsequently lost in foreclosure (or about to be lost) when acquired by the flipper teams. In the past ~5 years, 3 longtime (50+ yrs) remaining homeowners died, leaving the home to their “heir(s)” who lived across town or in another county and who came in with their crews and tools, rehabbed the parent’s home and immediately leased it out (these homes had avg tax bills ~$500 yr pursuant to Prop 13 so it cost them practically nothing to keep it). So we have now have families headed by millenials occupying these smallish rental homes who are likely paying $1600 to $1800 month for them. The largest family is the one that owns their home and that home is quite large (2700+ sf).

[skerzz]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=yamashi1][quote=bearishgurl]we didn’t have them one after another in immediate succession (at least not planned), like I see multiple families headed by millenials do. We couldn’t because FT daycare for 2+ kids at a time (without assistance from relatives) took up too much of a chunk of our paychecks. [/quote] This is more dribble with no fact checking. It might be true, and it might relate to your personal opinion. It makes you sound like you think we are a bunch of irresponsible kids who don’t have fiscal sense. Personally I know a lot of people who space them out, but I think that’s more of a personal choice. I spend a lot of money a month >$4k on schooling and day care, but again I don’t want to be 65 and paying for college.[/quote]yamashi, my kids are millenials but I don’t have any grandkids. My frame of reference are several families who are neighbors. All but one of them are renters and all have children. They range in age from 22-38 and have 2-7 kids and 3 of these families currently have more kids on the way. In all cases, one of the parents has never worked, which doesn’t bode well for being able to send any of these kids to college, but whatever …. There is no way in h@ll that I would ever have 2-3 kids in diapers at once and all too young to even attend 1st grade for the bulk of the day. In my mind, that’s “purposeful entrapment” but to each his/her own :-0.

The one family that owns their home bought it with in-laws on title because they could not qualify for it by themselves.[/quote]

There’s no way I’d plan on having 3 kids with 5-12 years age gap between them. You’d be looking at a minimum of 28 years of kids in the house. I may be biased given I have 2 under 2, but I’d rather deal with diapers, lack of sleep, etc while I am young. I’ll wait 2 more years before having one more, and my diaper changing days will be over before I turn 35. To each his/her own, but IMO having kids close in age is not an irresponsible act, nor is it something isolated to millennial parents. Perhaps it’s a generalization, that at best, can be applied to a certain street in a certain neighborhood within San Diego county.

[bearishgurl]

If the Piggs will recall, none of my kids currently reside here in their hometown and don’t plan to move back.

There are very good reasons for that, which become more and more apparent to my kids every time they come back during holidays and visit their “brethren” they grew up with who stayed here and never left :=0

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]If the Piggs will recall, none of my kids currently reside here in their hometown and don’t plan to move back.

There are very good reasons for that, which become more and more apparent to my kids every time they come back during holidays and visit their “brethren” they grew up with who stayed here and never left :=0[/quote]
Ha ha. Maybe it has something more to do with your neighborhood, or their choice of brethren. I feel the same way about Michigan, but probably for different reasons (it’s too damn cold). I’ve lived in West LA (great while young, not good for families), Maui (too remote, good for retiring not good for careers), Scottsdale (too hot in summer, no diversity), Santa Barbara (limited economy, not as much diversity), and chose to buy a home and settle here. The only negative thing I can say about SD is that housing is too expensive, but again most desirable places are.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=skerzz]There’s no way I’d plan on having 3 kids with 5-12 years age gap between them. You’d be looking at a minimum of 28 years of kids in the house. I may be biased given I have 2 under 2, but I’d rather deal with diapers, lack of sleep, etc while I am young. I’ll wait 2 more years before having one more, and my diaper changing days will be over before I turn 35. To each his/her own, but IMO having kids close in age is not an irresponsible act, nor is it something isolated to millennial parents. Perhaps it’s a generalization, that at best, can be applied to a certain street in a certain neighborhood within San Diego county.[/quote]I never stated it was “irresponsible,” skerzz. I stated that deliberately having 2-3 kids one after another (all single births) is a recipe for financial insecurity for the family in this day and age due to one parent usually being out of the workforce for several years so close to graduating from college, while their diploma is still “fresh” (assuming they actually did). I just haven’t in my experience seen any of these SAHP’s ever return to the FT workforce, even after their kids are teens and adults! In all practicality, it never happens. The “long-term SAHP experience” stunts a person’s ability to acquire their needed 40 quarters of SS to be eligible for old-age benefits in their own right while they are still young enough to get hired. They are also unable to participate in so many other workplace benefits, including being in line for promotions, vested into a pension program and participating in a funds-matching retirement program, etc.

It’s not about my street or neighborhood which is predominately senior citizen homeowners (but becoming less so every year). Large families with several minor children can be found everywhere, even in $1M+ areas. Oh, and we have two nearby Mormon Wards if that helps you understand things a little better, skerzz.

These millenial-family tenants are just a function of there being more available rental SFR’s around here now due to “flipper invasion” in recent years. SD County has a pretty thin selection of rental SFRs and the rents are more “affordable” around me because the typical rental house tends to be only 1100-1400 sf and we are not close to tech and biotech job centers.

Yes, no one understands it better than I do (maybe Donald Trump?) how many years (decades) it takes to raise a “spaced apart” family :-0

This is a good argument for why women can’t “have it all” but the truth is that they CAN successfully “have it all” but must be very careful not to have their kids too close together (or just have one child) if they expect to continue working FT without a hitch and not be an “attendance problem” at work after their maternity leaves are over. I DID have a co-worker who had 5 kids all minors living at home but she had SEVERAL relatives living on her street who were providing care for the children.

If a SAHP elects to depend upon other individuals in their lives (partners) to furnish their “retirements” for them, that could prove in the end to be a perilous proposition and I wouldn’t recommend adopting this mindset … especially for the degreed individual :=0

[spdrun]

What’s wrong with one spouse working part-time? Or even both being on flex time?

Drive used cars, buy a duplex or 50-year old home, don’t renovate the kitchen/baths if they’re functional, plenty of electronics to be had cheap on Craigslist, etc.

Live like 30 years ago, not like in 2016. If you have any extra money, use it for travel (student style not fancypants) rather than acquiring more useless toys.

SS is no real issue:
40 quarters means 10 years of work with at least $1260 pay per quarter. i.e. 10 1/2 hours of work per week at $10/hr assuming one week off per quarter.

Any part-time job should cover that.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=spdrun]What’s wrong with one spouse working part-time? Or even both being on flex time?

Drive used cars, buy a duplex or 50-year old home, don’t renovate the kitchen/baths if they’re functional, plenty of electronics to be had cheap on Craigslist, etc.

Live like 30 years ago, not like in 2016. If you have any extra money, use it for travel (student style not fancypants) rather than acquiring more useless toys.

SS is no real issue:
40 quarters means 10 years of work with at least $1260 pay per quarter. i.e. 10 1/2 hours of work per week at $10/hr assuming one week off per quarter.

Any part-time job should cover that.[/quote]I absolutely agree with this, spd and thanks for your post. Actually, the seniors around me still live like this. (The millenial renter families live in rehabbed homes.) I think its financially prudent for families to live like 30 years ago, no matter WHAT their household income is. When my kids were young, we lived pretty far below our means and always had savings and investments and ALWAYS took road trips with camping gear and/or trailer in tow and stayed “free” at relatives’ homes, cabins and ski lodges (brought lots of “cheap” CA wine to share, lol). Yes, even coast to coast. But most millenials today (whether or not they have kids) want the newest and latest everything. Many can’t even move into a house they just purchased without first taking delivery of all new furniture, and in some cases, appliances. Their level of consumption is just staggering to me. Even my kids actually throw away decent items that they’ve grown tired of (clothing, shoes, accessories, etc).

[FlyerInHi]

Millennials represent progress. Coming up with new ideas and in part rejecting old ideas is how we achieve progress. Boomers did the same to previous generations.

I remember conservatives railing against rap. Do that today and you’ll be laughed off the stage as an old curmudgeon. Remember rock n roll was subversive?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi1] . . . I spend a lot of money a month >$4k on schooling and day care, but again I don’t want to be 65 and paying for college.[/quote]I missed this.

yamashi, IIRC, you posted here earlier that you moved out to a mini-mansion in suburbia in the attendance area of public schools rated a “10.” If you don’t mind my asking, why are you currently paying >$4K month for schools? Surely, it doesn’t cost you $4K month for daycare :-0

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=yamashi1] . . . I spend a lot of money a month >$4k on schooling and day care, but again I don’t want to be 65 and paying for college.[/quote]I missed this.

yamashi, IIRC, you posted here earlier that you moved out to a mini-mansion in suburbia in the attendance area of public schools rated a “10.” If you don’t mind my asking, why are you currently paying >$4K month for schools? Surely, it doesn’t cost you $4K month for daycare :-0[/quote]

Probably none of your business, but to enlighten you my youngest and middle total $3,000 for daycare and private preschool, Oldest and middle total $1,000 for after school education, Saturday schooling costs around $400 total for tutoring and language school. This doesn’t include an additional $150-200 a month for piano for both middle and oldest and probably average another $300/month for extracurricular activities such as soccer/swim classes/golf/field trips/ballet and donations. Kids are expensive.

BTW, not living in a “mini-mansion” in suburbia. I live in an average home in suburbia. Mini-mansions is what I could have bought in a place far out like 4S or Escondido.

[millennial]

[quote=spdrun]What’s wrong with one spouse working part-time? Or even both being on flex time?

Drive used cars, buy a duplex or 50-year old home, don’t renovate the kitchen/baths if they’re functional, plenty of electronics to be had cheap on Craigslist, etc.

Live like 30 years ago, not like in 2016. If you have any extra money, use it for travel (student style not fancypants) rather than acquiring more useless toys.

SS is no real issue:
40 quarters means 10 years of work with at least $1260 pay per quarter. i.e. 10 1/2 hours of work per week at $10/hr assuming one week off per quarter.

Any part-time job should cover that.[/quote]

Yes I agree with all of this. If it was up to me I would quit my job and stay at home, but my wife keeps making me work. All kidding aside, my wife and I really do enjoy our work, which allows enough flex time to be able to enjoy our children too. This being said, we have the financial freedom to leave at any time and continue to keep paying the existing mortgage based on one income and have fun with our outside cash flow. I can give you the how and what I did, but it seems like you pretty much explained it above. Limited liabilities, curtailed spending and reinvesting excess cash flow.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=yamashi1] The one thing you are correct about though is the “pay their dues” theory. Like I said before, we are results oriented people who believe in a just and meritocratic society. We believe that you don’t deserve a job because of the color of your skin, the amount of gray hair you have, or the amount of hours you sit in front of your computer. We believe in the bottom line, how much $ you bring into the company, how much impact you have to the bottom line. [/quote]

My observation is millennials also care about social justice and the environment. They care about what they eat and how they consume. Maybe they don’t care all the much to become activists, but the right message of compassion is important.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=yamashi1] The one thing you are correct about though is the “pay their dues” theory. Like I said before, we are results oriented people who believe in a just and meritocratic society. We believe that you don’t deserve a job because of the color of your skin, the amount of gray hair you have, or the amount of hours you sit in front of your computer. We believe in the bottom line, how much $ you bring into the company, how much impact you have to the bottom line. [/quote]

My observation is millennials also care about social justice and the environment. They care about what they eat and how they consume. Maybe they don’t care all the much to become activists, but the right message of compassion is important.[/quote]

Results? Merit? I don’t know that politics and the ability of manipulative sociopaths to seize control will ever be supplanted by mere merit.

This article by venkatesh rao on the series THE OFFICE explains it all and is a must read if you think the office is Shakespeare for our time,

The Gervais Principle, Or The Office According to “The Office”

[Author]

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