Who got the better deal in this decline;l you or big money

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=CA renter]Whatever happened to Hank Paulson’s claim that we would look for the guilty parties when the “crisis” is averted. Gosh, with all the green shoots an’ stuff, you’d think they’d be beating the bushes already looking for the “guilty perpetrators.”

[/quote]

CAR: Paulson’s claim is going to rank right up there with O.J.’s claim, post-acquittal, that he’d be beating the bushes and looking for Ron and Nicole’s murderer. Of course, beating the bushes was code for playing golf.

The American people have shown themselves willing to be gulled into just about anything, whether it’s standing by idly and watching as our civil liberties are stripped from us (FISA, Patriot Acts I & II, wireless wiretapping) or allowing the government to fully co-opt shareholder/bondholder owned businesses (Chrysler and GM) or spend our money to enrich or bail out their cronies (everything from Carlyle Group and Halliburton under Bush to AIG and Goldman under Obama).

And we’ve stood by and done nothing. When we have protested or dissented, we’ve been referred to as un-American (Pelosi) and this while engaging in the most American activity of all.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]…this is the government’s way of attempting a “soft landing” in terms of market valuation on those toxic assets.[/quote]

If I were not a cynic, Allan, I would believe this. My cynical side says that what’s really going on is redirecting the consequences of bad actions from the principal orchestraters and beneficiaries to the innocent bystanders. In other words, my cynical side tells me the soft landing is marketed as a rescue for us all, but it’s really a smokescreen for a painless escape by the primary perpretators.[/quote]

PR: Hell, I wasn’t trying to say this soft landing was engineered us for us commoners! Nope. Why should it be? We’re neither the main perpetrators, nor the main beneficiaries, of this global swindle as you correctly pointed out.

However, if there were to be a global systemic collapse, they (the favored) would get caught up in it right along with the rest of us. Can’t have that happen.

So, the “tale” is “spun” (think Bernanke giving Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes” (my favorite party organ) all that “unprecedented access”, all while spinning that folksy tale of his humble beginnings and speaking enthusiastically about the green shoots), and We the People sit here and swallow it.

I swear to God, my new response to everything is going to be singing The Who’s “Don’t Get Fooled Again” over and over.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]…this is the government’s way of attempting a “soft landing” in terms of market valuation on those toxic assets.[/quote]

If I were not a cynic, Allan, I would believe this. My cynical side says that what’s really going on is redirecting the consequences of bad actions from the principal orchestraters and beneficiaries to the innocent bystanders. In other words, my cynical side tells me the soft landing is marketed as a rescue for us all, but it’s really a smokescreen for a painless escape by the primary perpretators.[/quote]

PR: Hell, I wasn’t trying to say this soft landing was engineered us for us commoners! Nope. Why should it be? We’re neither the main perpetrators, nor the main beneficiaries, of this global swindle as you correctly pointed out.

However, if there were to be a global systemic collapse, they (the favored) would get caught up in it right along with the rest of us. Can’t have that happen.

So, the “tale” is “spun” (think Bernanke giving Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes” (my favorite party organ) all that “unprecedented access”, all while spinning that folksy tale of his humble beginnings and speaking enthusiastically about the green shoots), and We the People sit here and swallow it.

I swear to God, my new response to everything is going to be singing The Who’s “Don’t Get Fooled Again” over and over.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]…this is the government’s way of attempting a “soft landing” in terms of market valuation on those toxic assets.[/quote]

If I were not a cynic, Allan, I would believe this. My cynical side says that what’s really going on is redirecting the consequences of bad actions from the principal orchestraters and beneficiaries to the innocent bystanders. In other words, my cynical side tells me the soft landing is marketed as a rescue for us all, but it’s really a smokescreen for a painless escape by the primary perpretators.[/quote]

PR: Hell, I wasn’t trying to say this soft landing was engineered us for us commoners! Nope. Why should it be? We’re neither the main perpetrators, nor the main beneficiaries, of this global swindle as you correctly pointed out.

However, if there were to be a global systemic collapse, they (the favored) would get caught up in it right along with the rest of us. Can’t have that happen.

So, the “tale” is “spun” (think Bernanke giving Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes” (my favorite party organ) all that “unprecedented access”, all while spinning that folksy tale of his humble beginnings and speaking enthusiastically about the green shoots), and We the People sit here and swallow it.

I swear to God, my new response to everything is going to be singing The Who’s “Don’t Get Fooled Again” over and over.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]…this is the government’s way of attempting a “soft landing” in terms of market valuation on those toxic assets.[/quote]

If I were not a cynic, Allan, I would believe this. My cynical side says that what’s really going on is redirecting the consequences of bad actions from the principal orchestraters and beneficiaries to the innocent bystanders. In other words, my cynical side tells me the soft landing is marketed as a rescue for us all, but it’s really a smokescreen for a painless escape by the primary perpretators.[/quote]

PR: Hell, I wasn’t trying to say this soft landing was engineered us for us commoners! Nope. Why should it be? We’re neither the main perpetrators, nor the main beneficiaries, of this global swindle as you correctly pointed out.

However, if there were to be a global systemic collapse, they (the favored) would get caught up in it right along with the rest of us. Can’t have that happen.

So, the “tale” is “spun” (think Bernanke giving Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes” (my favorite party organ) all that “unprecedented access”, all while spinning that folksy tale of his humble beginnings and speaking enthusiastically about the green shoots), and We the People sit here and swallow it.

I swear to God, my new response to everything is going to be singing The Who’s “Don’t Get Fooled Again” over and over.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=patientrenter][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]…this is the government’s way of attempting a “soft landing” in terms of market valuation on those toxic assets.[/quote]

If I were not a cynic, Allan, I would believe this. My cynical side says that what’s really going on is redirecting the consequences of bad actions from the principal orchestraters and beneficiaries to the innocent bystanders. In other words, my cynical side tells me the soft landing is marketed as a rescue for us all, but it’s really a smokescreen for a painless escape by the primary perpretators.[/quote]

PR: Hell, I wasn’t trying to say this soft landing was engineered us for us commoners! Nope. Why should it be? We’re neither the main perpetrators, nor the main beneficiaries, of this global swindle as you correctly pointed out.

However, if there were to be a global systemic collapse, they (the favored) would get caught up in it right along with the rest of us. Can’t have that happen.

So, the “tale” is “spun” (think Bernanke giving Scott Pelley of “60 Minutes” (my favorite party organ) all that “unprecedented access”, all while spinning that folksy tale of his humble beginnings and speaking enthusiastically about the green shoots), and We the People sit here and swallow it.

I swear to God, my new response to everything is going to be singing The Who’s “Don’t Get Fooled Again” over and over.

[moneymaker]

Let’s say when you play, when you lose, you lose everything. This would be more realistic. I remember back in 2004 when an old friend of mine was “investing” in real estate,he started in Phoenix and ended up buying in Florida as well. Well being a good friend he wanted to let me in on it. I was in a 3 way phone conversation with him and an accountant friend of mine and we told him “it’s not a matter of if, just when the bubble will bust”,of course there was no convincing him. Inevitably we will all pay in our taxes, that is a certainty.P.S.-anybody buy a Lottery ticket tonight? If you did, then thank you, as the government will get 40% of it and hopefully that will decrease our taxes just a little bit down the road.

[moneymaker]

Let’s say when you play, when you lose, you lose everything. This would be more realistic. I remember back in 2004 when an old friend of mine was “investing” in real estate,he started in Phoenix and ended up buying in Florida as well. Well being a good friend he wanted to let me in on it. I was in a 3 way phone conversation with him and an accountant friend of mine and we told him “it’s not a matter of if, just when the bubble will bust”,of course there was no convincing him. Inevitably we will all pay in our taxes, that is a certainty.P.S.-anybody buy a Lottery ticket tonight? If you did, then thank you, as the government will get 40% of it and hopefully that will decrease our taxes just a little bit down the road.

[moneymaker]

Let’s say when you play, when you lose, you lose everything. This would be more realistic. I remember back in 2004 when an old friend of mine was “investing” in real estate,he started in Phoenix and ended up buying in Florida as well. Well being a good friend he wanted to let me in on it. I was in a 3 way phone conversation with him and an accountant friend of mine and we told him “it’s not a matter of if, just when the bubble will bust”,of course there was no convincing him. Inevitably we will all pay in our taxes, that is a certainty.P.S.-anybody buy a Lottery ticket tonight? If you did, then thank you, as the government will get 40% of it and hopefully that will decrease our taxes just a little bit down the road.

[moneymaker]

Let’s say when you play, when you lose, you lose everything. This would be more realistic. I remember back in 2004 when an old friend of mine was “investing” in real estate,he started in Phoenix and ended up buying in Florida as well. Well being a good friend he wanted to let me in on it. I was in a 3 way phone conversation with him and an accountant friend of mine and we told him “it’s not a matter of if, just when the bubble will bust”,of course there was no convincing him. Inevitably we will all pay in our taxes, that is a certainty.P.S.-anybody buy a Lottery ticket tonight? If you did, then thank you, as the government will get 40% of it and hopefully that will decrease our taxes just a little bit down the road.

[moneymaker]

Let’s say when you play, when you lose, you lose everything. This would be more realistic. I remember back in 2004 when an old friend of mine was “investing” in real estate,he started in Phoenix and ended up buying in Florida as well. Well being a good friend he wanted to let me in on it. I was in a 3 way phone conversation with him and an accountant friend of mine and we told him “it’s not a matter of if, just when the bubble will bust”,of course there was no convincing him. Inevitably we will all pay in our taxes, that is a certainty.P.S.-anybody buy a Lottery ticket tonight? If you did, then thank you, as the government will get 40% of it and hopefully that will decrease our taxes just a little bit down the road.

[equalizer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=CA renter]Whatever happened to Hank Paulson’s claim that we would look for the guilty parties when the “crisis” is averted. Gosh, with all the green shoots an’ stuff, you’d think they’d be beating the bushes already looking for the “guilty perpetrators.”

[/quote]

CAR: Paulson’s claim is going to rank right up there with O.J.’s claim, post-acquittal, that he’d be beating the bushes and looking for Ron and Nicole’s murderer. Of course, beating the bushes was code for playing golf.

The American people have shown themselves willing to be gulled into just about anything, whether it’s standing by idly and watching as our civil liberties are stripped from us (FISA, Patriot Acts I & II, wireless wiretapping) or allowing the government to fully co-opt shareholder/bondholder owned businesses (Chrysler and GM) or spend our money to enrich or bail out their cronies (everything from Carlyle Group and Halliburton under Bush to AIG and Goldman under Obama).

And we’ve stood by and done nothing. When we have protested or dissented, we’ve been referred to as un-American (Pelosi) and this while engaging in the most American activity of all.[/quote]

Allan,
I don’t know much about history so I found the excerpt of Morris Dickstein’s “Dancing in the Dark: A Cultural History of the Great Depression” in Slate enlightening:

“In the inner lives of Americans, a deep strain of depression was one mark of the Depression, a tendency for people to turn the crisis inward, to blame themselves, to target their own shortcomings and failures, not those of the system. This self-blame, rooted in American individualism and self-reliance as well as in Protestant notions of personal accountability, was where the still-dominant American success ethic played its baneful and destructive part. As one psychiatrist who had trained with Freud later told Studs Terkel, “Everybody, more or less, blamed himself for his delinquency or lack of talent or bad luck. There was an acceptance that it was your own fault, your own indolence, your lack of ability. You took it and kept quiet.” …. Thanks to this “kind of shame about your own personal failure … there were very few disturbances.”
There was anger and rebellion among a few but, by and large, that quiet desperation and submission.” Unlike Europeans who turned to Fascism, Communism, or militarism in those hard times, most Americans remained passive, even self-accusing, in the face of Depression conditions. They neither rebelled nor submitted to the despotic rule of a would-be savior. This looks even more remarkable today than it did then.”

I think many would argue, like you Allan, that people today are all about the blame others and not themselves these days. I would agree there is a difference but not enough to make it meaningful; there will be riots for any reason in USA. People have moved from self-blame to indolence?

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/history-lesson/2009/08/26/when-american-dream-died?page=0,1

PS
TG may work up some witty prose from this quote:
“Thanks to both the economics and the psychology of depression, the early 1930s saw a decline in the marriage rate, the divorce rate (people couldn’t afford to separate), the birthrate, and even, as far as it can be known, the frequency of sexual relations. “Sketchy evidence suggests that due to the tensions of hard times, sex within marriage decreased,” writes Susan Ware. “Fear of pregnancy was a major factor, but feelings of inadequacy on the part of the male and lack of respect for the unemployed man from his wife also played roles.” One woman told Lorena Hickok of her fear of pregnancy, balanced by a fear of withholding sex from her depressed husband:

I suppose you can say the easiest way would be not to do it. But it wouldn’t be. You don’t know what it’s like when your husband’s out of work. He’s gloomy and unhappy all the time. Life is terrible. You must try all the time to keep him from going crazy. And many times—that’s the only way.”

[equalizer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=CA renter]Whatever happened to Hank Paulson’s claim that we would look for the guilty parties when the “crisis” is averted. Gosh, with all the green shoots an’ stuff, you’d think they’d be beating the bushes already looking for the “guilty perpetrators.”

[/quote]

CAR: Paulson’s claim is going to rank right up there with O.J.’s claim, post-acquittal, that he’d be beating the bushes and looking for Ron and Nicole’s murderer. Of course, beating the bushes was code for playing golf.

The American people have shown themselves willing to be gulled into just about anything, whether it’s standing by idly and watching as our civil liberties are stripped from us (FISA, Patriot Acts I & II, wireless wiretapping) or allowing the government to fully co-opt shareholder/bondholder owned businesses (Chrysler and GM) or spend our money to enrich or bail out their cronies (everything from Carlyle Group and Halliburton under Bush to AIG and Goldman under Obama).

And we’ve stood by and done nothing. When we have protested or dissented, we’ve been referred to as un-American (Pelosi) and this while engaging in the most American activity of all.[/quote]

Allan,
I don’t know much about history so I found the excerpt of Morris Dickstein’s “Dancing in the Dark: A Cultural History of the Great Depression” in Slate enlightening:

“In the inner lives of Americans, a deep strain of depression was one mark of the Depression, a tendency for people to turn the crisis inward, to blame themselves, to target their own shortcomings and failures, not those of the system. This self-blame, rooted in American individualism and self-reliance as well as in Protestant notions of personal accountability, was where the still-dominant American success ethic played its baneful and destructive part. As one psychiatrist who had trained with Freud later told Studs Terkel, “Everybody, more or less, blamed himself for his delinquency or lack of talent or bad luck. There was an acceptance that it was your own fault, your own indolence, your lack of ability. You took it and kept quiet.” …. Thanks to this “kind of shame about your own personal failure … there were very few disturbances.”
There was anger and rebellion among a few but, by and large, that quiet desperation and submission.” Unlike Europeans who turned to Fascism, Communism, or militarism in those hard times, most Americans remained passive, even self-accusing, in the face of Depression conditions. They neither rebelled nor submitted to the despotic rule of a would-be savior. This looks even more remarkable today than it did then.”

I think many would argue, like you Allan, that people today are all about the blame others and not themselves these days. I would agree there is a difference but not enough to make it meaningful; there will be riots for any reason in USA. People have moved from self-blame to indolence?

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/history-lesson/2009/08/26/when-american-dream-died?page=0,1

PS
TG may work up some witty prose from this quote:
“Thanks to both the economics and the psychology of depression, the early 1930s saw a decline in the marriage rate, the divorce rate (people couldn’t afford to separate), the birthrate, and even, as far as it can be known, the frequency of sexual relations. “Sketchy evidence suggests that due to the tensions of hard times, sex within marriage decreased,” writes Susan Ware. “Fear of pregnancy was a major factor, but feelings of inadequacy on the part of the male and lack of respect for the unemployed man from his wife also played roles.” One woman told Lorena Hickok of her fear of pregnancy, balanced by a fear of withholding sex from her depressed husband:

I suppose you can say the easiest way would be not to do it. But it wouldn’t be. You don’t know what it’s like when your husband’s out of work. He’s gloomy and unhappy all the time. Life is terrible. You must try all the time to keep him from going crazy. And many times—that’s the only way.”

[equalizer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=CA renter]Whatever happened to Hank Paulson’s claim that we would look for the guilty parties when the “crisis” is averted. Gosh, with all the green shoots an’ stuff, you’d think they’d be beating the bushes already looking for the “guilty perpetrators.”

[/quote]

CAR: Paulson’s claim is going to rank right up there with O.J.’s claim, post-acquittal, that he’d be beating the bushes and looking for Ron and Nicole’s murderer. Of course, beating the bushes was code for playing golf.

The American people have shown themselves willing to be gulled into just about anything, whether it’s standing by idly and watching as our civil liberties are stripped from us (FISA, Patriot Acts I & II, wireless wiretapping) or allowing the government to fully co-opt shareholder/bondholder owned businesses (Chrysler and GM) or spend our money to enrich or bail out their cronies (everything from Carlyle Group and Halliburton under Bush to AIG and Goldman under Obama).

And we’ve stood by and done nothing. When we have protested or dissented, we’ve been referred to as un-American (Pelosi) and this while engaging in the most American activity of all.[/quote]

Allan,
I don’t know much about history so I found the excerpt of Morris Dickstein’s “Dancing in the Dark: A Cultural History of the Great Depression” in Slate enlightening:

“In the inner lives of Americans, a deep strain of depression was one mark of the Depression, a tendency for people to turn the crisis inward, to blame themselves, to target their own shortcomings and failures, not those of the system. This self-blame, rooted in American individualism and self-reliance as well as in Protestant notions of personal accountability, was where the still-dominant American success ethic played its baneful and destructive part. As one psychiatrist who had trained with Freud later told Studs Terkel, “Everybody, more or less, blamed himself for his delinquency or lack of talent or bad luck. There was an acceptance that it was your own fault, your own indolence, your lack of ability. You took it and kept quiet.” …. Thanks to this “kind of shame about your own personal failure … there were very few disturbances.”
There was anger and rebellion among a few but, by and large, that quiet desperation and submission.” Unlike Europeans who turned to Fascism, Communism, or militarism in those hard times, most Americans remained passive, even self-accusing, in the face of Depression conditions. They neither rebelled nor submitted to the despotic rule of a would-be savior. This looks even more remarkable today than it did then.”

I think many would argue, like you Allan, that people today are all about the blame others and not themselves these days. I would agree there is a difference but not enough to make it meaningful; there will be riots for any reason in USA. People have moved from self-blame to indolence?

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/history-lesson/2009/08/26/when-american-dream-died?page=0,1

PS
TG may work up some witty prose from this quote:
“Thanks to both the economics and the psychology of depression, the early 1930s saw a decline in the marriage rate, the divorce rate (people couldn’t afford to separate), the birthrate, and even, as far as it can be known, the frequency of sexual relations. “Sketchy evidence suggests that due to the tensions of hard times, sex within marriage decreased,” writes Susan Ware. “Fear of pregnancy was a major factor, but feelings of inadequacy on the part of the male and lack of respect for the unemployed man from his wife also played roles.” One woman told Lorena Hickok of her fear of pregnancy, balanced by a fear of withholding sex from her depressed husband:

I suppose you can say the easiest way would be not to do it. But it wouldn’t be. You don’t know what it’s like when your husband’s out of work. He’s gloomy and unhappy all the time. Life is terrible. You must try all the time to keep him from going crazy. And many times—that’s the only way.”

[equalizer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=CA renter]Whatever happened to Hank Paulson’s claim that we would look for the guilty parties when the “crisis” is averted. Gosh, with all the green shoots an’ stuff, you’d think they’d be beating the bushes already looking for the “guilty perpetrators.”

[/quote]

CAR: Paulson’s claim is going to rank right up there with O.J.’s claim, post-acquittal, that he’d be beating the bushes and looking for Ron and Nicole’s murderer. Of course, beating the bushes was code for playing golf.

The American people have shown themselves willing to be gulled into just about anything, whether it’s standing by idly and watching as our civil liberties are stripped from us (FISA, Patriot Acts I & II, wireless wiretapping) or allowing the government to fully co-opt shareholder/bondholder owned businesses (Chrysler and GM) or spend our money to enrich or bail out their cronies (everything from Carlyle Group and Halliburton under Bush to AIG and Goldman under Obama).

And we’ve stood by and done nothing. When we have protested or dissented, we’ve been referred to as un-American (Pelosi) and this while engaging in the most American activity of all.[/quote]

Allan,
I don’t know much about history so I found the excerpt of Morris Dickstein’s “Dancing in the Dark: A Cultural History of the Great Depression” in Slate enlightening:

“In the inner lives of Americans, a deep strain of depression was one mark of the Depression, a tendency for people to turn the crisis inward, to blame themselves, to target their own shortcomings and failures, not those of the system. This self-blame, rooted in American individualism and self-reliance as well as in Protestant notions of personal accountability, was where the still-dominant American success ethic played its baneful and destructive part. As one psychiatrist who had trained with Freud later told Studs Terkel, “Everybody, more or less, blamed himself for his delinquency or lack of talent or bad luck. There was an acceptance that it was your own fault, your own indolence, your lack of ability. You took it and kept quiet.” …. Thanks to this “kind of shame about your own personal failure … there were very few disturbances.”
There was anger and rebellion among a few but, by and large, that quiet desperation and submission.” Unlike Europeans who turned to Fascism, Communism, or militarism in those hard times, most Americans remained passive, even self-accusing, in the face of Depression conditions. They neither rebelled nor submitted to the despotic rule of a would-be savior. This looks even more remarkable today than it did then.”

I think many would argue, like you Allan, that people today are all about the blame others and not themselves these days. I would agree there is a difference but not enough to make it meaningful; there will be riots for any reason in USA. People have moved from self-blame to indolence?

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/history-lesson/2009/08/26/when-american-dream-died?page=0,1

PS
TG may work up some witty prose from this quote:
“Thanks to both the economics and the psychology of depression, the early 1930s saw a decline in the marriage rate, the divorce rate (people couldn’t afford to separate), the birthrate, and even, as far as it can be known, the frequency of sexual relations. “Sketchy evidence suggests that due to the tensions of hard times, sex within marriage decreased,” writes Susan Ware. “Fear of pregnancy was a major factor, but feelings of inadequacy on the part of the male and lack of respect for the unemployed man from his wife also played roles.” One woman told Lorena Hickok of her fear of pregnancy, balanced by a fear of withholding sex from her depressed husband:

I suppose you can say the easiest way would be not to do it. But it wouldn’t be. You don’t know what it’s like when your husband’s out of work. He’s gloomy and unhappy all the time. Life is terrible. You must try all the time to keep him from going crazy. And many times—that’s the only way.”

[Author]

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