What is “work” and how do we value it?

[sdduuuude]

[quote=Eugene][quote=sdduuuude]
Maybe in China, because jobs may actually start coming back here. When unemployment benefits run out, there’ll be lots of people willing to work for less than the current minimum wage.[/quote]

It’s more complicated than that. You have to think about aggregate demand and exchange rates (particularly the USD/CNY exchange rate).

To put it simply: any attempt to bring back manufacturing/exporting jobs by cutting the minimum wage will be met by the Chinese government with an adjustment of USD/CNY to make sure that Chinese stuff is still cheaper.[/quote]

Not a bad point. That doesn’t necessarily hurt us, though, as we buy so much of that stuff. Plus, devaluing their currency puts pressure on them in other ways. They can’t do it ad-infinitum.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude]Set the minimum wage to $0.00 and the country would re-learn what work is.[/quote]

And rioting, and high crime, and starvation, and sickness, and social decay…[/quote]

we cannot afford to have our wages drop.[/quote]

Eliminating or reducing the minimum wage doesn’t necesarily drop wages. It opens up more jobs at lower wages. There is a big difference.

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude]Set the minimum wage to $0.00 and the country would re-learn what work is.[/quote]

And rioting, and high crime, and starvation, and sickness, and social decay…[/quote]

we cannot afford to have our wages drop.[/quote]

Eliminating or reducing the minimum wage doesn’t necesarily drop wages. It opens up more jobs at lower wages. There is a big difference.

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude]Set the minimum wage to $0.00 and the country would re-learn what work is.[/quote]

And rioting, and high crime, and starvation, and sickness, and social decay…[/quote]

we cannot afford to have our wages drop.[/quote]

Eliminating or reducing the minimum wage doesn’t necesarily drop wages. It opens up more jobs at lower wages. There is a big difference.

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude]Set the minimum wage to $0.00 and the country would re-learn what work is.[/quote]

And rioting, and high crime, and starvation, and sickness, and social decay…[/quote]

we cannot afford to have our wages drop.[/quote]

Eliminating or reducing the minimum wage doesn’t necesarily drop wages. It opens up more jobs at lower wages. There is a big difference.

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude][quote=CA renter][quote=sdduuuude]Set the minimum wage to $0.00 and the country would re-learn what work is.[/quote]

And rioting, and high crime, and starvation, and sickness, and social decay…[/quote]

we cannot afford to have our wages drop.[/quote]

Eliminating or reducing the minimum wage doesn’t necesarily drop wages. It opens up more jobs at lower wages. There is a big difference.

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.

[LA Reader]

[quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.

[LA Reader]

[quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.

[LA Reader]

[quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.

[LA Reader]

[quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.

[LA Reader]

[quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.

[CA renter]

[quote=LA Reader][quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I’ve seen.

Employers will always pay the minimum wage possible. If the employers can increase their margins/bonuses/personal compensation, the workers will always lose.

Personally, I would prefer to see a system where those who take the risks are the ones who get rewarded. Unfortunately, our system is set up to protect only those at the top via laws of incorporation and limited liability. They can make all the money on the way up, but have no liability on the way down. In the meantime, they will squeeze every penny out of those who do the actual work, and they will do everything in their power to increase the wealth disparity.

Perhaps we could come up with a system whereby those who elect to have LLC/corporate protections will have their total compensation restricted to a lower multiple of the lowest-paid person who works for the same company or group of companies.

The elite have made sure they are protected. I like to see the “little guy” (who does all the work) protected as well; which is why I support unions and trade restrictions.

[CA renter]

[quote=LA Reader][quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I’ve seen.

Employers will always pay the minimum wage possible. If the employers can increase their margins/bonuses/personal compensation, the workers will always lose.

Personally, I would prefer to see a system where those who take the risks are the ones who get rewarded. Unfortunately, our system is set up to protect only those at the top via laws of incorporation and limited liability. They can make all the money on the way up, but have no liability on the way down. In the meantime, they will squeeze every penny out of those who do the actual work, and they will do everything in their power to increase the wealth disparity.

Perhaps we could come up with a system whereby those who elect to have LLC/corporate protections will have their total compensation restricted to a lower multiple of the lowest-paid person who works for the same company or group of companies.

The elite have made sure they are protected. I like to see the “little guy” (who does all the work) protected as well; which is why I support unions and trade restrictions.

[CA renter]

[quote=LA Reader][quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I’ve seen.

Employers will always pay the minimum wage possible. If the employers can increase their margins/bonuses/personal compensation, the workers will always lose.

Personally, I would prefer to see a system where those who take the risks are the ones who get rewarded. Unfortunately, our system is set up to protect only those at the top via laws of incorporation and limited liability. They can make all the money on the way up, but have no liability on the way down. In the meantime, they will squeeze every penny out of those who do the actual work, and they will do everything in their power to increase the wealth disparity.

Perhaps we could come up with a system whereby those who elect to have LLC/corporate protections will have their total compensation restricted to a lower multiple of the lowest-paid person who works for the same company or group of companies.

The elite have made sure they are protected. I like to see the “little guy” (who does all the work) protected as well; which is why I support unions and trade restrictions.

[CA renter]

[quote=LA Reader][quote=sdduuuude]

Having a minimum wage doesn’t affect the value of the work we can do. It simply makes it economically infeasible for legitimate businesses to hire people who can’t do a job that is not worth more than min wage. So, those poeople don’t work. Or they go on welfare. It’s a system designed to waste taxpayers’ money.

It’s like saying “lets make the ‘minimum price’ for hot dogs $15. Would the price of hot dogs go up? No. People would stop selling them because nobody would buy them. The value of a hot dog is what it is. Setting a min price doesn’t change that and results in fewer sales.

If min wage is so useful, why not set it at $100/hr ? Then we’d all be rich !!!! Oh. I see. There is an “optimal” minimum wage you say? How does one determine the optimal value for a minimum wage? Ah. We rely on the brillian economists that didn’t see any of the current mess coming. That’s how

It’s just absurd that someone thinks they can pull a minimum wage value out of their ass, thinking they can actually help the economy. It is one of the stupidist economic decisions ever made.[/quote]

Not true. In certain countries cars at taxed at almost 100%. So a car that cost $25k here cost $50k there. So in essence in those countries the government decided that “Hot Dog” is $15. People have no choice but they still want “Hot Dog” so they buy them at the inflated price.

Hell I’ve seen Americans pay $50 for Pizza Hut Pizza because they missed the American Taste while abroad.

Value of things are all relative. Just like housing prices.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I’ve seen.

Employers will always pay the minimum wage possible. If the employers can increase their margins/bonuses/personal compensation, the workers will always lose.

Personally, I would prefer to see a system where those who take the risks are the ones who get rewarded. Unfortunately, our system is set up to protect only those at the top via laws of incorporation and limited liability. They can make all the money on the way up, but have no liability on the way down. In the meantime, they will squeeze every penny out of those who do the actual work, and they will do everything in their power to increase the wealth disparity.

Perhaps we could come up with a system whereby those who elect to have LLC/corporate protections will have their total compensation restricted to a lower multiple of the lowest-paid person who works for the same company or group of companies.

The elite have made sure they are protected. I like to see the “little guy” (who does all the work) protected as well; which is why I support unions and trade restrictions.

[Author]

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