Top 20 pensioners cite city service

[temeculaguy]

An interesting article for pension haters, it turns out that amongst county workers, the highest paid pensioners work for Riverside County.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_b2b26157-45bb-5376-8c47-2da04cc4bc71.html

partly because they participate in Social Security. They average, including social security and medical benefits……wait for it…..41k a year total. And that’s the highest paid county is So cal. ventura County was #2.

That wasn’t for ditch diggers, they looked at a few job classifications “The analysis looked at the retirement benefits of office assistants, equipment operators, social workers, deputy sheriffs, sheriff’s sergeants, sheriff’s captains, registered nurses and district attorney investigators.”

So at the end of the article, public outcry has caused reccomendations for them to reduce benefits to 60%, A rough estimate is about 24k a year. You people get your panties in a bunch over that.

But the same newspaper on the same day details the city manager of escondido making some 250k with benefits to 350k and 10 weeks of vacation a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_18f21509-f584-5f8a-8af8-57df0de321f5.html

In that second article, in the comments, someone brings up that the county CEO with 10x the employees and 25x the budget makes the same coin.

Now that makes no sense, but those few individuals only serve to inflame the public and sell newspapers, when the rank and file local gov’t folks aren’t getting what everyone is complaining about and yet those are the folks who will endure the biggest cuts.

maybe the fed and the state can learn something from the locals, last i checked, So Cal isn’t a cheap place to live, yet the highest average benefit in so cal is 41k (which includes ss and med) that’s a number I can live with and since I pay my taxes in that county, I’m cool with it.

In the first article, look at the options. In 1999 and 2000, they didn’t set aside a nickel for pensions. Funny, I owned property those years, I don’t remember getting a discount on my property taxes those years

[KSMountain]

[quote=pjwal][quote=KSMountain]Here’s the bio for the current CIO of Atlanta.

This will give you some idea of the kind of person we’re talking about:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/it/bio.aspx%5B/quote%5D

Completely unimpressive. I worked for years in the Healthcare tech field for one of the few tech startups that actually experienced some success. My experience taught me that they are the industry closest to the government in their ineptitude with technology. So it’s a good fit for Atlanta and a great move for Dan Smith, who is no doubt thinking about retirement.[/quote]
I looked for the part that said he spent most of his time fixing printers. I didn’t see it. I see a guy with a masters from Georgia Tech and a long career managing projects and people.

Yeah his bio is not my cup of tea, but clearly he looks like a pretty common exec. In the private sector he’d quite likely be senior enough to get stock options, perhaps a lot of them. From his (or similar folks) point of view, they should be thinking, “How am I going to provide for my retirement?”. In the private sector you have 401k’s/stock options, in the public sector, a pension would be part of your calculations when deciding whether (and how long) to work there.

35 years is a LONG time. I don’t begrudge the folks having a retirement, especially if they had nothing to do with the terms of the pensions they receive. Again, they don’t have the 401k or stock option opportunities that some of us have.

Now, regarding the folks who actually set up these unsustainable pension benefits, especially if it benefited themselves, yes, I have a big problem with them.

[KSMountain]

[quote=pjwal][quote=KSMountain]Here’s the bio for the current CIO of Atlanta.

This will give you some idea of the kind of person we’re talking about:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/it/bio.aspx%5B/quote%5D

Completely unimpressive. I worked for years in the Healthcare tech field for one of the few tech startups that actually experienced some success. My experience taught me that they are the industry closest to the government in their ineptitude with technology. So it’s a good fit for Atlanta and a great move for Dan Smith, who is no doubt thinking about retirement.[/quote]
I looked for the part that said he spent most of his time fixing printers. I didn’t see it. I see a guy with a masters from Georgia Tech and a long career managing projects and people.

Yeah his bio is not my cup of tea, but clearly he looks like a pretty common exec. In the private sector he’d quite likely be senior enough to get stock options, perhaps a lot of them. From his (or similar folks) point of view, they should be thinking, “How am I going to provide for my retirement?”. In the private sector you have 401k’s/stock options, in the public sector, a pension would be part of your calculations when deciding whether (and how long) to work there.

35 years is a LONG time. I don’t begrudge the folks having a retirement, especially if they had nothing to do with the terms of the pensions they receive. Again, they don’t have the 401k or stock option opportunities that some of us have.

Now, regarding the folks who actually set up these unsustainable pension benefits, especially if it benefited themselves, yes, I have a big problem with them.

[KSMountain]

[quote=pjwal][quote=KSMountain]Here’s the bio for the current CIO of Atlanta.

This will give you some idea of the kind of person we’re talking about:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/it/bio.aspx%5B/quote%5D

Completely unimpressive. I worked for years in the Healthcare tech field for one of the few tech startups that actually experienced some success. My experience taught me that they are the industry closest to the government in their ineptitude with technology. So it’s a good fit for Atlanta and a great move for Dan Smith, who is no doubt thinking about retirement.[/quote]
I looked for the part that said he spent most of his time fixing printers. I didn’t see it. I see a guy with a masters from Georgia Tech and a long career managing projects and people.

Yeah his bio is not my cup of tea, but clearly he looks like a pretty common exec. In the private sector he’d quite likely be senior enough to get stock options, perhaps a lot of them. From his (or similar folks) point of view, they should be thinking, “How am I going to provide for my retirement?”. In the private sector you have 401k’s/stock options, in the public sector, a pension would be part of your calculations when deciding whether (and how long) to work there.

35 years is a LONG time. I don’t begrudge the folks having a retirement, especially if they had nothing to do with the terms of the pensions they receive. Again, they don’t have the 401k or stock option opportunities that some of us have.

Now, regarding the folks who actually set up these unsustainable pension benefits, especially if it benefited themselves, yes, I have a big problem with them.

[KSMountain]

[quote=pjwal][quote=KSMountain]Here’s the bio for the current CIO of Atlanta.

This will give you some idea of the kind of person we’re talking about:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/it/bio.aspx%5B/quote%5D

Completely unimpressive. I worked for years in the Healthcare tech field for one of the few tech startups that actually experienced some success. My experience taught me that they are the industry closest to the government in their ineptitude with technology. So it’s a good fit for Atlanta and a great move for Dan Smith, who is no doubt thinking about retirement.[/quote]
I looked for the part that said he spent most of his time fixing printers. I didn’t see it. I see a guy with a masters from Georgia Tech and a long career managing projects and people.

Yeah his bio is not my cup of tea, but clearly he looks like a pretty common exec. In the private sector he’d quite likely be senior enough to get stock options, perhaps a lot of them. From his (or similar folks) point of view, they should be thinking, “How am I going to provide for my retirement?”. In the private sector you have 401k’s/stock options, in the public sector, a pension would be part of your calculations when deciding whether (and how long) to work there.

35 years is a LONG time. I don’t begrudge the folks having a retirement, especially if they had nothing to do with the terms of the pensions they receive. Again, they don’t have the 401k or stock option opportunities that some of us have.

Now, regarding the folks who actually set up these unsustainable pension benefits, especially if it benefited themselves, yes, I have a big problem with them.

[KSMountain]

[quote=pjwal][quote=KSMountain]Here’s the bio for the current CIO of Atlanta.

This will give you some idea of the kind of person we’re talking about:

http://www.atlantaga.gov/government/it/bio.aspx%5B/quote%5D

Completely unimpressive. I worked for years in the Healthcare tech field for one of the few tech startups that actually experienced some success. My experience taught me that they are the industry closest to the government in their ineptitude with technology. So it’s a good fit for Atlanta and a great move for Dan Smith, who is no doubt thinking about retirement.[/quote]
I looked for the part that said he spent most of his time fixing printers. I didn’t see it. I see a guy with a masters from Georgia Tech and a long career managing projects and people.

Yeah his bio is not my cup of tea, but clearly he looks like a pretty common exec. In the private sector he’d quite likely be senior enough to get stock options, perhaps a lot of them. From his (or similar folks) point of view, they should be thinking, “How am I going to provide for my retirement?”. In the private sector you have 401k’s/stock options, in the public sector, a pension would be part of your calculations when deciding whether (and how long) to work there.

35 years is a LONG time. I don’t begrudge the folks having a retirement, especially if they had nothing to do with the terms of the pensions they receive. Again, they don’t have the 401k or stock option opportunities that some of us have.

Now, regarding the folks who actually set up these unsustainable pension benefits, especially if it benefited themselves, yes, I have a big problem with them.

[jimmyle]

Firefighting and police are not among the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs

I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.

[quote=CA renter][quote=yojimbo]
Since BP makes $10 billion a year I shouldn’t even question a mayor of a small town pilfering it’s residents for $800k a year? Well, there are roughly 30,000 incorporated cities and towns in the US. If, on average, the pilfering is around $100k a year per city then that’s $3 billion a year. In the larger cities it’s probably far above that. A $1 million a year pilfering equals $30 billion. Probably more than all the oil companies combined have allegedly ripped us off.

Pilfering the taxpayer at any level pisses me off. In fact, I think it starts at the lower levels and works it’s way up to the top. Those exploiting the system for small amounts as rookies will probably become professional big $ exploiters in due time.[/quote]

Nobody’s saying we shouldn’t question a mayor of a small town making $800K. Believe it or not, I’m a taxpayer advocate and often criticize the way our tax money is spent.

I just have a problem with the “Susie the manicurist isn’t making this, so why should a firefighter?” or even “John the enginerd isn’t making this, so why is a cop?” arguments. One could easily argue that a police officer provides a much greater benefit to society than an engineer, and that the risks s/he takes are greater. Likewise, one could argue that the engineer has more education…but education has never meant that a person is guaranteed to make more money than someone without an education (lots of poor PhDs out there). One could also argue that high risks don’t guarantee high pay (look at our military personnel).

Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

[jimmyle]

Firefighting and police are not among the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs

I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.

[quote=CA renter][quote=yojimbo]
Since BP makes $10 billion a year I shouldn’t even question a mayor of a small town pilfering it’s residents for $800k a year? Well, there are roughly 30,000 incorporated cities and towns in the US. If, on average, the pilfering is around $100k a year per city then that’s $3 billion a year. In the larger cities it’s probably far above that. A $1 million a year pilfering equals $30 billion. Probably more than all the oil companies combined have allegedly ripped us off.

Pilfering the taxpayer at any level pisses me off. In fact, I think it starts at the lower levels and works it’s way up to the top. Those exploiting the system for small amounts as rookies will probably become professional big $ exploiters in due time.[/quote]

Nobody’s saying we shouldn’t question a mayor of a small town making $800K. Believe it or not, I’m a taxpayer advocate and often criticize the way our tax money is spent.

I just have a problem with the “Susie the manicurist isn’t making this, so why should a firefighter?” or even “John the enginerd isn’t making this, so why is a cop?” arguments. One could easily argue that a police officer provides a much greater benefit to society than an engineer, and that the risks s/he takes are greater. Likewise, one could argue that the engineer has more education…but education has never meant that a person is guaranteed to make more money than someone without an education (lots of poor PhDs out there). One could also argue that high risks don’t guarantee high pay (look at our military personnel).

Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

[jimmyle]

Firefighting and police are not among the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs

I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.

[quote=CA renter][quote=yojimbo]
Since BP makes $10 billion a year I shouldn’t even question a mayor of a small town pilfering it’s residents for $800k a year? Well, there are roughly 30,000 incorporated cities and towns in the US. If, on average, the pilfering is around $100k a year per city then that’s $3 billion a year. In the larger cities it’s probably far above that. A $1 million a year pilfering equals $30 billion. Probably more than all the oil companies combined have allegedly ripped us off.

Pilfering the taxpayer at any level pisses me off. In fact, I think it starts at the lower levels and works it’s way up to the top. Those exploiting the system for small amounts as rookies will probably become professional big $ exploiters in due time.[/quote]

Nobody’s saying we shouldn’t question a mayor of a small town making $800K. Believe it or not, I’m a taxpayer advocate and often criticize the way our tax money is spent.

I just have a problem with the “Susie the manicurist isn’t making this, so why should a firefighter?” or even “John the enginerd isn’t making this, so why is a cop?” arguments. One could easily argue that a police officer provides a much greater benefit to society than an engineer, and that the risks s/he takes are greater. Likewise, one could argue that the engineer has more education…but education has never meant that a person is guaranteed to make more money than someone without an education (lots of poor PhDs out there). One could also argue that high risks don’t guarantee high pay (look at our military personnel).

Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

[jimmyle]

Firefighting and police are not among the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs

I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.

[quote=CA renter][quote=yojimbo]
Since BP makes $10 billion a year I shouldn’t even question a mayor of a small town pilfering it’s residents for $800k a year? Well, there are roughly 30,000 incorporated cities and towns in the US. If, on average, the pilfering is around $100k a year per city then that’s $3 billion a year. In the larger cities it’s probably far above that. A $1 million a year pilfering equals $30 billion. Probably more than all the oil companies combined have allegedly ripped us off.

Pilfering the taxpayer at any level pisses me off. In fact, I think it starts at the lower levels and works it’s way up to the top. Those exploiting the system for small amounts as rookies will probably become professional big $ exploiters in due time.[/quote]

Nobody’s saying we shouldn’t question a mayor of a small town making $800K. Believe it or not, I’m a taxpayer advocate and often criticize the way our tax money is spent.

I just have a problem with the “Susie the manicurist isn’t making this, so why should a firefighter?” or even “John the enginerd isn’t making this, so why is a cop?” arguments. One could easily argue that a police officer provides a much greater benefit to society than an engineer, and that the risks s/he takes are greater. Likewise, one could argue that the engineer has more education…but education has never meant that a person is guaranteed to make more money than someone without an education (lots of poor PhDs out there). One could also argue that high risks don’t guarantee high pay (look at our military personnel).

Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

[jimmyle]

Firefighting and police are not among the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/110394/americas-10-most-dangerous-jobs

I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.

[quote=CA renter][quote=yojimbo]
Since BP makes $10 billion a year I shouldn’t even question a mayor of a small town pilfering it’s residents for $800k a year? Well, there are roughly 30,000 incorporated cities and towns in the US. If, on average, the pilfering is around $100k a year per city then that’s $3 billion a year. In the larger cities it’s probably far above that. A $1 million a year pilfering equals $30 billion. Probably more than all the oil companies combined have allegedly ripped us off.

Pilfering the taxpayer at any level pisses me off. In fact, I think it starts at the lower levels and works it’s way up to the top. Those exploiting the system for small amounts as rookies will probably become professional big $ exploiters in due time.[/quote]

Nobody’s saying we shouldn’t question a mayor of a small town making $800K. Believe it or not, I’m a taxpayer advocate and often criticize the way our tax money is spent.

I just have a problem with the “Susie the manicurist isn’t making this, so why should a firefighter?” or even “John the enginerd isn’t making this, so why is a cop?” arguments. One could easily argue that a police officer provides a much greater benefit to society than an engineer, and that the risks s/he takes are greater. Likewise, one could argue that the engineer has more education…but education has never meant that a person is guaranteed to make more money than someone without an education (lots of poor PhDs out there). One could also argue that high risks don’t guarantee high pay (look at our military personnel).

Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

[KSMountain]

[quote=jimmyle]I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.
[/quote]

Well that whole subdiscussion treaded dangerously into “what is fair” territory. And that’s just silly because Life Is Not Fair.

If life were fair, and salaries were set based on their benefit to society, would baseball players make 100 (or even 500) times as much as teachers?

And yet, it is so.

Apart from the financial aspect, I personally feel Police and Engineers are both *indispensable* in our current society. Not sure how you would rank one versus the other. I guess I might say the average police officer provides more benefits to society than the average engineer, but I’m not sure.

[KSMountain]

[quote=jimmyle]I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.
[/quote]

Well that whole subdiscussion treaded dangerously into “what is fair” territory. And that’s just silly because Life Is Not Fair.

If life were fair, and salaries were set based on their benefit to society, would baseball players make 100 (or even 500) times as much as teachers?

And yet, it is so.

Apart from the financial aspect, I personally feel Police and Engineers are both *indispensable* in our current society. Not sure how you would rank one versus the other. I guess I might say the average police officer provides more benefits to society than the average engineer, but I’m not sure.

[KSMountain]

[quote=jimmyle]I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.
[/quote]

Well that whole subdiscussion treaded dangerously into “what is fair” territory. And that’s just silly because Life Is Not Fair.

If life were fair, and salaries were set based on their benefit to society, would baseball players make 100 (or even 500) times as much as teachers?

And yet, it is so.

Apart from the financial aspect, I personally feel Police and Engineers are both *indispensable* in our current society. Not sure how you would rank one versus the other. I guess I might say the average police officer provides more benefits to society than the average engineer, but I’m not sure.

[KSMountain]

[quote=jimmyle]I also question your comment that Police Officers provide much more benefits to society than Engineers.
[/quote]

Well that whole subdiscussion treaded dangerously into “what is fair” territory. And that’s just silly because Life Is Not Fair.

If life were fair, and salaries were set based on their benefit to society, would baseball players make 100 (or even 500) times as much as teachers?

And yet, it is so.

Apart from the financial aspect, I personally feel Police and Engineers are both *indispensable* in our current society. Not sure how you would rank one versus the other. I guess I might say the average police officer provides more benefits to society than the average engineer, but I’m not sure.

[Author]

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