Top 20 pensioners cite city service

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Again, I despise the fact that **workers of all stripes** are being made (brainwashed) to turn agaist each other when the culprits who created our problems are sailing away on their yachts, unscathed.[/quote]

More class warfare from the left. Oh, don’t look at the public sector that doesn’t have to answer to the free market, whose employees are living off a pension that only a few million dollar investment fund could reasonably return. No it’s those evil CEOs and fund managers of the private sector that are creating all of our problems. As if failure in the private sector and losing investment dollars is automatically a crime. There is no arguing that on the whole private sector companies BIG and small, have created the standard of living today. What are you arguing exactly? That we should have some laws to punish CEOs and their families when they fail?[/quote]

We disagree completely about the benevolence of the private sector. Without the public sector that provides the physical, legal, and social infrastructures, private industry could not thrive. It is a symbiotic relationship.

Show me a **SINGLE** country without a strong socialist bent that has a high standard of living. It doesn’t exist, and it’s high time we free ourselves from the dogma of the supply-siders and “capitalists” who willingly destroy everything in their path for their own exclusive benefit.

Those obscenely rich CEOs are paid for with OUR TAX DOLLARS, especially those in the financial sector. Without the govt’s help, many of the financial firms wouldn’t be around today, and those that would have survived would be a fraction of their current size.

Absolutely, those CEOs are paid handsomely enough that they should be held accountable for their actions. That means that if they cause the company to fail, they need to be held **personally** responsible. If not, why are we paying them so much? Where is the personal “risk” we hear so much about that supposedly warrants their outrageous rewards?

We disagree about the “free market” determining prices in the private sector as well. There are so many monopolies and networks, that we are not free to choose from whom we buy goods or services — especially the things we need the most. Choosing between two large monopolitic companies (who are in control of many policies via their lobbies) is NOT a “free market.”

Privatizing profits while socializing gains is NOT “free market.”

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.

Distract the sheeple at all costs…turn them against one another. That seems to be the plan, and the sheeple are being led to the slaughter, just as stupid as ever.[/quote]

This is the typical leftists argument that makes the patently false assumption that wealth is a zero sum game. The TRILLIONS that has been spent on the private sector GENERATES WEALTH. Government agencies do not. There would be no budget for the government if it were not for the private sector. I don’t have any issue with a CEO making millions as that is taken out of the revenue of the company and not my tax dollars. It’s the left that tries to stir up this class warfare rhetoric and conveniently leaves that fact out.[/quote]

Where is this “wealth” being generated by these CEOs? I simply see waste and tremendous losses.

The government uses tax money to pave the way for private industry. It helps feed money into the economy from the bottom-up, and can do so without any debt offset.

What productivity do you see coming out of the financial sector? I see none…only destruction as of late. If the public is going to shoulder all the risks when things go badly, then the govt can just as well make direct loans. We don’t need the financial industry if all it does is skim money from the productive economy, then dump the mess on the public when (**supposedly** “unforeseen”) risks materialize.

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.

Distract the sheeple at all costs…turn them against one another. That seems to be the plan, and the sheeple are being led to the slaughter, just as stupid as ever.[/quote]

This is the typical leftists argument that makes the patently false assumption that wealth is a zero sum game. The TRILLIONS that has been spent on the private sector GENERATES WEALTH. Government agencies do not. There would be no budget for the government if it were not for the private sector. I don’t have any issue with a CEO making millions as that is taken out of the revenue of the company and not my tax dollars. It’s the left that tries to stir up this class warfare rhetoric and conveniently leaves that fact out.[/quote]

Where is this “wealth” being generated by these CEOs? I simply see waste and tremendous losses.

The government uses tax money to pave the way for private industry. It helps feed money into the economy from the bottom-up, and can do so without any debt offset.

What productivity do you see coming out of the financial sector? I see none…only destruction as of late. If the public is going to shoulder all the risks when things go badly, then the govt can just as well make direct loans. We don’t need the financial industry if all it does is skim money from the productive economy, then dump the mess on the public when (**supposedly** “unforeseen”) risks materialize.

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.

Distract the sheeple at all costs…turn them against one another. That seems to be the plan, and the sheeple are being led to the slaughter, just as stupid as ever.[/quote]

This is the typical leftists argument that makes the patently false assumption that wealth is a zero sum game. The TRILLIONS that has been spent on the private sector GENERATES WEALTH. Government agencies do not. There would be no budget for the government if it were not for the private sector. I don’t have any issue with a CEO making millions as that is taken out of the revenue of the company and not my tax dollars. It’s the left that tries to stir up this class warfare rhetoric and conveniently leaves that fact out.[/quote]

Where is this “wealth” being generated by these CEOs? I simply see waste and tremendous losses.

The government uses tax money to pave the way for private industry. It helps feed money into the economy from the bottom-up, and can do so without any debt offset.

What productivity do you see coming out of the financial sector? I see none…only destruction as of late. If the public is going to shoulder all the risks when things go badly, then the govt can just as well make direct loans. We don’t need the financial industry if all it does is skim money from the productive economy, then dump the mess on the public when (**supposedly** “unforeseen”) risks materialize.

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.

Distract the sheeple at all costs…turn them against one another. That seems to be the plan, and the sheeple are being led to the slaughter, just as stupid as ever.[/quote]

This is the typical leftists argument that makes the patently false assumption that wealth is a zero sum game. The TRILLIONS that has been spent on the private sector GENERATES WEALTH. Government agencies do not. There would be no budget for the government if it were not for the private sector. I don’t have any issue with a CEO making millions as that is taken out of the revenue of the company and not my tax dollars. It’s the left that tries to stir up this class warfare rhetoric and conveniently leaves that fact out.[/quote]

Where is this “wealth” being generated by these CEOs? I simply see waste and tremendous losses.

The government uses tax money to pave the way for private industry. It helps feed money into the economy from the bottom-up, and can do so without any debt offset.

What productivity do you see coming out of the financial sector? I see none…only destruction as of late. If the public is going to shoulder all the risks when things go badly, then the govt can just as well make direct loans. We don’t need the financial industry if all it does is skim money from the productive economy, then dump the mess on the public when (**supposedly** “unforeseen”) risks materialize.

[CA renter]

[quote=pjwal][quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.

Distract the sheeple at all costs…turn them against one another. That seems to be the plan, and the sheeple are being led to the slaughter, just as stupid as ever.[/quote]

This is the typical leftists argument that makes the patently false assumption that wealth is a zero sum game. The TRILLIONS that has been spent on the private sector GENERATES WEALTH. Government agencies do not. There would be no budget for the government if it were not for the private sector. I don’t have any issue with a CEO making millions as that is taken out of the revenue of the company and not my tax dollars. It’s the left that tries to stir up this class warfare rhetoric and conveniently leaves that fact out.[/quote]

Where is this “wealth” being generated by these CEOs? I simply see waste and tremendous losses.

The government uses tax money to pave the way for private industry. It helps feed money into the economy from the bottom-up, and can do so without any debt offset.

What productivity do you see coming out of the financial sector? I see none…only destruction as of late. If the public is going to shoulder all the risks when things go badly, then the govt can just as well make direct loans. We don’t need the financial industry if all it does is skim money from the productive economy, then dump the mess on the public when (**supposedly** “unforeseen”) risks materialize.

[smshorttimer]

[quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.
[/quote]

Created all our economic problems? You really believe that?

Sorry to nitpick, but you are comparing federal spending to the spending of one state. Both are unsustainable.

And about those trillions, so the public anger about the bailouts and crooks on Wall Street and the vultures running the banks isn’t particularly violent enough? I dunno, maybe that’s so 2009. Maybe it is a little out of proportion, but that’s how these things swell up. Public pensions are the hot topic and a legitimate one. I didn’t read the U-T story , so I can’t comment on whether it was fair or not.

Haven’t we also spent billions in stimulus money shuffling money to local and state governments to prevent public sector layoffs?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize there were already many volleys served.

[smshorttimer]

[quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.
[/quote]

Created all our economic problems? You really believe that?

Sorry to nitpick, but you are comparing federal spending to the spending of one state. Both are unsustainable.

And about those trillions, so the public anger about the bailouts and crooks on Wall Street and the vultures running the banks isn’t particularly violent enough? I dunno, maybe that’s so 2009. Maybe it is a little out of proportion, but that’s how these things swell up. Public pensions are the hot topic and a legitimate one. I didn’t read the U-T story , so I can’t comment on whether it was fair or not.

Haven’t we also spent billions in stimulus money shuffling money to local and state governments to prevent public sector layoffs?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize there were already many volleys served.

[smshorttimer]

[quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.
[/quote]

Created all our economic problems? You really believe that?

Sorry to nitpick, but you are comparing federal spending to the spending of one state. Both are unsustainable.

And about those trillions, so the public anger about the bailouts and crooks on Wall Street and the vultures running the banks isn’t particularly violent enough? I dunno, maybe that’s so 2009. Maybe it is a little out of proportion, but that’s how these things swell up. Public pensions are the hot topic and a legitimate one. I didn’t read the U-T story , so I can’t comment on whether it was fair or not.

Haven’t we also spent billions in stimulus money shuffling money to local and state governments to prevent public sector layoffs?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize there were already many volleys served.

[smshorttimer]

[quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.
[/quote]

Created all our economic problems? You really believe that?

Sorry to nitpick, but you are comparing federal spending to the spending of one state. Both are unsustainable.

And about those trillions, so the public anger about the bailouts and crooks on Wall Street and the vultures running the banks isn’t particularly violent enough? I dunno, maybe that’s so 2009. Maybe it is a little out of proportion, but that’s how these things swell up. Public pensions are the hot topic and a legitimate one. I didn’t read the U-T story , so I can’t comment on whether it was fair or not.

Haven’t we also spent billions in stimulus money shuffling money to local and state governments to prevent public sector layoffs?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize there were already many volleys served.

[smshorttimer]

[quote=CA renter]Bravo, TexasLine.

I’m also sick of all the whining about govt workers.

We’ve spent **TRILLIONS** on Wall Street (far more than the budget and pension deficits in CA), where those who’ve created all our economic problems (including the pension problems, BTW) are getting richer than ever; yet the violent anger is missing there. I wonder why? It makes me wonder who is **really** behind all these attacks on public workers.
[/quote]

Created all our economic problems? You really believe that?

Sorry to nitpick, but you are comparing federal spending to the spending of one state. Both are unsustainable.

And about those trillions, so the public anger about the bailouts and crooks on Wall Street and the vultures running the banks isn’t particularly violent enough? I dunno, maybe that’s so 2009. Maybe it is a little out of proportion, but that’s how these things swell up. Public pensions are the hot topic and a legitimate one. I didn’t read the U-T story , so I can’t comment on whether it was fair or not.

Haven’t we also spent billions in stimulus money shuffling money to local and state governments to prevent public sector layoffs?

Edit: Oh, I didn’t realize there were already many volleys served.

[temeculaguy]

An interesting article for pension haters, it turns out that amongst county workers, the highest paid pensioners work for Riverside County.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_b2b26157-45bb-5376-8c47-2da04cc4bc71.html

partly because they participate in Social Security. They average, including social security and medical benefits……wait for it…..41k a year total. And that’s the highest paid county is So cal. ventura County was #2.

That wasn’t for ditch diggers, they looked at a few job classifications “The analysis looked at the retirement benefits of office assistants, equipment operators, social workers, deputy sheriffs, sheriff’s sergeants, sheriff’s captains, registered nurses and district attorney investigators.”

So at the end of the article, public outcry has caused reccomendations for them to reduce benefits to 60%, A rough estimate is about 24k a year. You people get your panties in a bunch over that.

But the same newspaper on the same day details the city manager of escondido making some 250k with benefits to 350k and 10 weeks of vacation a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_18f21509-f584-5f8a-8af8-57df0de321f5.html

In that second article, in the comments, someone brings up that the county CEO with 10x the employees and 25x the budget makes the same coin.

Now that makes no sense, but those few individuals only serve to inflame the public and sell newspapers, when the rank and file local gov’t folks aren’t getting what everyone is complaining about and yet those are the folks who will endure the biggest cuts.

maybe the fed and the state can learn something from the locals, last i checked, So Cal isn’t a cheap place to live, yet the highest average benefit in so cal is 41k (which includes ss and med) that’s a number I can live with and since I pay my taxes in that county, I’m cool with it.

In the first article, look at the options. In 1999 and 2000, they didn’t set aside a nickel for pensions. Funny, I owned property those years, I don’t remember getting a discount on my property taxes those years

[temeculaguy]

An interesting article for pension haters, it turns out that amongst county workers, the highest paid pensioners work for Riverside County.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_b2b26157-45bb-5376-8c47-2da04cc4bc71.html

partly because they participate in Social Security. They average, including social security and medical benefits……wait for it…..41k a year total. And that’s the highest paid county is So cal. ventura County was #2.

That wasn’t for ditch diggers, they looked at a few job classifications “The analysis looked at the retirement benefits of office assistants, equipment operators, social workers, deputy sheriffs, sheriff’s sergeants, sheriff’s captains, registered nurses and district attorney investigators.”

So at the end of the article, public outcry has caused reccomendations for them to reduce benefits to 60%, A rough estimate is about 24k a year. You people get your panties in a bunch over that.

But the same newspaper on the same day details the city manager of escondido making some 250k with benefits to 350k and 10 weeks of vacation a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_18f21509-f584-5f8a-8af8-57df0de321f5.html

In that second article, in the comments, someone brings up that the county CEO with 10x the employees and 25x the budget makes the same coin.

Now that makes no sense, but those few individuals only serve to inflame the public and sell newspapers, when the rank and file local gov’t folks aren’t getting what everyone is complaining about and yet those are the folks who will endure the biggest cuts.

maybe the fed and the state can learn something from the locals, last i checked, So Cal isn’t a cheap place to live, yet the highest average benefit in so cal is 41k (which includes ss and med) that’s a number I can live with and since I pay my taxes in that county, I’m cool with it.

In the first article, look at the options. In 1999 and 2000, they didn’t set aside a nickel for pensions. Funny, I owned property those years, I don’t remember getting a discount on my property taxes those years

[temeculaguy]

An interesting article for pension haters, it turns out that amongst county workers, the highest paid pensioners work for Riverside County.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_b2b26157-45bb-5376-8c47-2da04cc4bc71.html

partly because they participate in Social Security. They average, including social security and medical benefits……wait for it…..41k a year total. And that’s the highest paid county is So cal. ventura County was #2.

That wasn’t for ditch diggers, they looked at a few job classifications “The analysis looked at the retirement benefits of office assistants, equipment operators, social workers, deputy sheriffs, sheriff’s sergeants, sheriff’s captains, registered nurses and district attorney investigators.”

So at the end of the article, public outcry has caused reccomendations for them to reduce benefits to 60%, A rough estimate is about 24k a year. You people get your panties in a bunch over that.

But the same newspaper on the same day details the city manager of escondido making some 250k with benefits to 350k and 10 weeks of vacation a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_18f21509-f584-5f8a-8af8-57df0de321f5.html

In that second article, in the comments, someone brings up that the county CEO with 10x the employees and 25x the budget makes the same coin.

Now that makes no sense, but those few individuals only serve to inflame the public and sell newspapers, when the rank and file local gov’t folks aren’t getting what everyone is complaining about and yet those are the folks who will endure the biggest cuts.

maybe the fed and the state can learn something from the locals, last i checked, So Cal isn’t a cheap place to live, yet the highest average benefit in so cal is 41k (which includes ss and med) that’s a number I can live with and since I pay my taxes in that county, I’m cool with it.

In the first article, look at the options. In 1999 and 2000, they didn’t set aside a nickel for pensions. Funny, I owned property those years, I don’t remember getting a discount on my property taxes those years

[temeculaguy]

An interesting article for pension haters, it turns out that amongst county workers, the highest paid pensioners work for Riverside County.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/swcounty/article_b2b26157-45bb-5376-8c47-2da04cc4bc71.html

partly because they participate in Social Security. They average, including social security and medical benefits……wait for it…..41k a year total. And that’s the highest paid county is So cal. ventura County was #2.

That wasn’t for ditch diggers, they looked at a few job classifications “The analysis looked at the retirement benefits of office assistants, equipment operators, social workers, deputy sheriffs, sheriff’s sergeants, sheriff’s captains, registered nurses and district attorney investigators.”

So at the end of the article, public outcry has caused reccomendations for them to reduce benefits to 60%, A rough estimate is about 24k a year. You people get your panties in a bunch over that.

But the same newspaper on the same day details the city manager of escondido making some 250k with benefits to 350k and 10 weeks of vacation a year.

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_18f21509-f584-5f8a-8af8-57df0de321f5.html

In that second article, in the comments, someone brings up that the county CEO with 10x the employees and 25x the budget makes the same coin.

Now that makes no sense, but those few individuals only serve to inflame the public and sell newspapers, when the rank and file local gov’t folks aren’t getting what everyone is complaining about and yet those are the folks who will endure the biggest cuts.

maybe the fed and the state can learn something from the locals, last i checked, So Cal isn’t a cheap place to live, yet the highest average benefit in so cal is 41k (which includes ss and med) that’s a number I can live with and since I pay my taxes in that county, I’m cool with it.

In the first article, look at the options. In 1999 and 2000, they didn’t set aside a nickel for pensions. Funny, I owned property those years, I don’t remember getting a discount on my property taxes those years

[Author]

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