The Forgotten Man

[kewp]

A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?

False dichotomy.

Why don’t you ask those same employees if they think its fair that Larry & Sergey pay a smaller percentage of their yearly earnings in taxes than their salaried employees?

Btw, both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have both stated that they feel they are not paying their fair share of taxes relative to their employees.

[kewp]

A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?

False dichotomy.

Why don’t you ask those same employees if they think its fair that Larry & Sergey pay a smaller percentage of their yearly earnings in taxes than their salaried employees?

Btw, both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have both stated that they feel they are not paying their fair share of taxes relative to their employees.

[kewp]

A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?

False dichotomy.

Why don’t you ask those same employees if they think its fair that Larry & Sergey pay a smaller percentage of their yearly earnings in taxes than their salaried employees?

Btw, both Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have both stated that they feel they are not paying their fair share of taxes relative to their employees.

[Navydoc]

[quote=kewp]Does anyone here seriously think the people making $250k a year are doing ten times the work of those making $25k a year?

And those making 2.5 million are working ten times harder than those making $250k?[/quote]

No kewp, I don’t work harder than I did when I was making $3.35/hr in the 80’s. But what I had to do to get here in terms of education and training is easily 100X or more what I needed to do to qualify for the minimum wage jobs. I definitely feel I earned my rightful place in society, and it irks me when people say it’s my responsibility to provide for everyone else who worked less hard to get where they are than I have.

Don’t missunderstand, I realize the necessity of graduated taxes, just don’t expect my to be joyful about it. And $250,000 a year in Southern California is a comfortable living, but is by no means rich.

[Navydoc]

[quote=kewp]Does anyone here seriously think the people making $250k a year are doing ten times the work of those making $25k a year?

And those making 2.5 million are working ten times harder than those making $250k?[/quote]

No kewp, I don’t work harder than I did when I was making $3.35/hr in the 80’s. But what I had to do to get here in terms of education and training is easily 100X or more what I needed to do to qualify for the minimum wage jobs. I definitely feel I earned my rightful place in society, and it irks me when people say it’s my responsibility to provide for everyone else who worked less hard to get where they are than I have.

Don’t missunderstand, I realize the necessity of graduated taxes, just don’t expect my to be joyful about it. And $250,000 a year in Southern California is a comfortable living, but is by no means rich.

[Navydoc]

[quote=kewp]Does anyone here seriously think the people making $250k a year are doing ten times the work of those making $25k a year?

And those making 2.5 million are working ten times harder than those making $250k?[/quote]

No kewp, I don’t work harder than I did when I was making $3.35/hr in the 80’s. But what I had to do to get here in terms of education and training is easily 100X or more what I needed to do to qualify for the minimum wage jobs. I definitely feel I earned my rightful place in society, and it irks me when people say it’s my responsibility to provide for everyone else who worked less hard to get where they are than I have.

Don’t missunderstand, I realize the necessity of graduated taxes, just don’t expect my to be joyful about it. And $250,000 a year in Southern California is a comfortable living, but is by no means rich.

[Navydoc]

[quote=kewp]Does anyone here seriously think the people making $250k a year are doing ten times the work of those making $25k a year?

And those making 2.5 million are working ten times harder than those making $250k?[/quote]

No kewp, I don’t work harder than I did when I was making $3.35/hr in the 80’s. But what I had to do to get here in terms of education and training is easily 100X or more what I needed to do to qualify for the minimum wage jobs. I definitely feel I earned my rightful place in society, and it irks me when people say it’s my responsibility to provide for everyone else who worked less hard to get where they are than I have.

Don’t missunderstand, I realize the necessity of graduated taxes, just don’t expect my to be joyful about it. And $250,000 a year in Southern California is a comfortable living, but is by no means rich.

[Navydoc]

[quote=kewp]Does anyone here seriously think the people making $250k a year are doing ten times the work of those making $25k a year?

And those making 2.5 million are working ten times harder than those making $250k?[/quote]

No kewp, I don’t work harder than I did when I was making $3.35/hr in the 80’s. But what I had to do to get here in terms of education and training is easily 100X or more what I needed to do to qualify for the minimum wage jobs. I definitely feel I earned my rightful place in society, and it irks me when people say it’s my responsibility to provide for everyone else who worked less hard to get where they are than I have.

Don’t missunderstand, I realize the necessity of graduated taxes, just don’t expect my to be joyful about it. And $250,000 a year in Southern California is a comfortable living, but is by no means rich.

[CA renter]

In my personal experience, the harder I worked, the less I was paid. As I worked my way up the ladder, the jobs became MUCH easier, and I had far more freedoms than when I worked for minimum wage.

Where are you getting the idea that the “rich” have somehow “earned” their money?

Also, wasn’t Bill Gates embroiled in antitrust lawsuits because he’s structured the business so there can be no real competition? Do the customers benefit from his actions?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-232565.html

Isn’t he also the one who hired permanent “temporary” workers so he didn’t have to pay healthcare benefits and pensions, etc.? Did the employees benefit from this?

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18812579

So, taxing Google’s **profits** will somehow make them go bankrupt or eliminate any incentive to keep working…please explain, in detail, how you come to this conclusion.

Not sure where you get the idea that “lazy, beer-swilling couch potatoes” are the recipients of the taxpayers’ largesse. The numbers would certainly prove that claim wrong.

The largest expense, by far, is defense spending. Social Security and Medicare follow close behind. Are these the “lazy” people you’re referring to?

Here is a chart:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Where does the “No Bankers Left Behind” bill fit into your thesis that the “rich” earned their money???? Aren’t the banks and financial players some of the wealthiest people in the nation? Is this what you would call “class warfare”?

[CA renter]

In my personal experience, the harder I worked, the less I was paid. As I worked my way up the ladder, the jobs became MUCH easier, and I had far more freedoms than when I worked for minimum wage.

Where are you getting the idea that the “rich” have somehow “earned” their money?

Also, wasn’t Bill Gates embroiled in antitrust lawsuits because he’s structured the business so there can be no real competition? Do the customers benefit from his actions?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-232565.html

Isn’t he also the one who hired permanent “temporary” workers so he didn’t have to pay healthcare benefits and pensions, etc.? Did the employees benefit from this?

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18812579

So, taxing Google’s **profits** will somehow make them go bankrupt or eliminate any incentive to keep working…please explain, in detail, how you come to this conclusion.

Not sure where you get the idea that “lazy, beer-swilling couch potatoes” are the recipients of the taxpayers’ largesse. The numbers would certainly prove that claim wrong.

The largest expense, by far, is defense spending. Social Security and Medicare follow close behind. Are these the “lazy” people you’re referring to?

Here is a chart:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Where does the “No Bankers Left Behind” bill fit into your thesis that the “rich” earned their money???? Aren’t the banks and financial players some of the wealthiest people in the nation? Is this what you would call “class warfare”?

[CA renter]

In my personal experience, the harder I worked, the less I was paid. As I worked my way up the ladder, the jobs became MUCH easier, and I had far more freedoms than when I worked for minimum wage.

Where are you getting the idea that the “rich” have somehow “earned” their money?

Also, wasn’t Bill Gates embroiled in antitrust lawsuits because he’s structured the business so there can be no real competition? Do the customers benefit from his actions?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-232565.html

Isn’t he also the one who hired permanent “temporary” workers so he didn’t have to pay healthcare benefits and pensions, etc.? Did the employees benefit from this?

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18812579

So, taxing Google’s **profits** will somehow make them go bankrupt or eliminate any incentive to keep working…please explain, in detail, how you come to this conclusion.

Not sure where you get the idea that “lazy, beer-swilling couch potatoes” are the recipients of the taxpayers’ largesse. The numbers would certainly prove that claim wrong.

The largest expense, by far, is defense spending. Social Security and Medicare follow close behind. Are these the “lazy” people you’re referring to?

Here is a chart:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Where does the “No Bankers Left Behind” bill fit into your thesis that the “rich” earned their money???? Aren’t the banks and financial players some of the wealthiest people in the nation? Is this what you would call “class warfare”?

[CA renter]

In my personal experience, the harder I worked, the less I was paid. As I worked my way up the ladder, the jobs became MUCH easier, and I had far more freedoms than when I worked for minimum wage.

Where are you getting the idea that the “rich” have somehow “earned” their money?

Also, wasn’t Bill Gates embroiled in antitrust lawsuits because he’s structured the business so there can be no real competition? Do the customers benefit from his actions?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-232565.html

Isn’t he also the one who hired permanent “temporary” workers so he didn’t have to pay healthcare benefits and pensions, etc.? Did the employees benefit from this?

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18812579

So, taxing Google’s **profits** will somehow make them go bankrupt or eliminate any incentive to keep working…please explain, in detail, how you come to this conclusion.

Not sure where you get the idea that “lazy, beer-swilling couch potatoes” are the recipients of the taxpayers’ largesse. The numbers would certainly prove that claim wrong.

The largest expense, by far, is defense spending. Social Security and Medicare follow close behind. Are these the “lazy” people you’re referring to?

Here is a chart:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Where does the “No Bankers Left Behind” bill fit into your thesis that the “rich” earned their money???? Aren’t the banks and financial players some of the wealthiest people in the nation? Is this what you would call “class warfare”?

[CA renter]

In my personal experience, the harder I worked, the less I was paid. As I worked my way up the ladder, the jobs became MUCH easier, and I had far more freedoms than when I worked for minimum wage.

Where are you getting the idea that the “rich” have somehow “earned” their money?

Also, wasn’t Bill Gates embroiled in antitrust lawsuits because he’s structured the business so there can be no real competition? Do the customers benefit from his actions?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1040-232565.html

Isn’t he also the one who hired permanent “temporary” workers so he didn’t have to pay healthcare benefits and pensions, etc.? Did the employees benefit from this?

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18812579

So, taxing Google’s **profits** will somehow make them go bankrupt or eliminate any incentive to keep working…please explain, in detail, how you come to this conclusion.

Not sure where you get the idea that “lazy, beer-swilling couch potatoes” are the recipients of the taxpayers’ largesse. The numbers would certainly prove that claim wrong.

The largest expense, by far, is defense spending. Social Security and Medicare follow close behind. Are these the “lazy” people you’re referring to?

Here is a chart:

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/#usgs302

Where does the “No Bankers Left Behind” bill fit into your thesis that the “rich” earned their money???? Aren’t the banks and financial players some of the wealthiest people in the nation? Is this what you would call “class warfare”?

[underdose]

Yojimbo, I agree with most of what you are saying. But would you say the same for Jamie Dimon at JPMorgan?

What seems to be lost in this most delightful discussion is that we currently have the new “republicans” flavor of socialism: give to the upper 1% today and tax the other 99% tomorrow. I don’t think anyone in this class warfare battle likes this plan. Shouldn’t we, instead of bickering among ourselves, be united in our concern that the government is corrupt and dangerous, and its actions are harmful to all of us.

I haven’t read the book, but I think the point is that a government, made up primarily of people who are more skilled at winning popularity contests than they are at understanding finance, is not qualified to manage something as big and complex as the economy. Even their most well meaning efforts have unintended adverse consequences. How much should we trust these people to “fix” things? Not much, no matter where you land on the class spectrum. The idea of America is “individual freedom”, and our founders recognized that freedom for the citizens can only occur when the government’s powers are limited.

[underdose]

Yojimbo, I agree with most of what you are saying. But would you say the same for Jamie Dimon at JPMorgan?

What seems to be lost in this most delightful discussion is that we currently have the new “republicans” flavor of socialism: give to the upper 1% today and tax the other 99% tomorrow. I don’t think anyone in this class warfare battle likes this plan. Shouldn’t we, instead of bickering among ourselves, be united in our concern that the government is corrupt and dangerous, and its actions are harmful to all of us.

I haven’t read the book, but I think the point is that a government, made up primarily of people who are more skilled at winning popularity contests than they are at understanding finance, is not qualified to manage something as big and complex as the economy. Even their most well meaning efforts have unintended adverse consequences. How much should we trust these people to “fix” things? Not much, no matter where you land on the class spectrum. The idea of America is “individual freedom”, and our founders recognized that freedom for the citizens can only occur when the government’s powers are limited.

[Author]

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