The Forgotten Man

[stansd]

CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

No one is entitled to one red cent by virtue of the fact that they work hard. People are paid based on what they produce be that widgets, advice, or information.

Go back to community college and take economics 101…you’d likely learn a few things.

I also don’t buy any so called well being index as an accurate predictor of well-being. That said, how about.

Current Communist Countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Notice any similarities? How about repression of human rights, and relatively low standards of living?

How about this list? http://www.heritage.org/Index/countries.cfm

I’ll summarize: The top 10 countries on the index of economic freedom are:

Hong Kong
Singapore
Ireland
Australia
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Chile
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The bottom 10 are:
Burma
Libya
Zimbabwe
Cuba
North Korea
Montenegro
Serbia
Sudan
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo

Where would you rather live?

Stan

[stansd]

CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

No one is entitled to one red cent by virtue of the fact that they work hard. People are paid based on what they produce be that widgets, advice, or information.

Go back to community college and take economics 101…you’d likely learn a few things.

I also don’t buy any so called well being index as an accurate predictor of well-being. That said, how about.

Current Communist Countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Notice any similarities? How about repression of human rights, and relatively low standards of living?

How about this list? http://www.heritage.org/Index/countries.cfm

I’ll summarize: The top 10 countries on the index of economic freedom are:

Hong Kong
Singapore
Ireland
Australia
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Chile
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The bottom 10 are:
Burma
Libya
Zimbabwe
Cuba
North Korea
Montenegro
Serbia
Sudan
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo

Where would you rather live?

Stan

[stansd]

CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

No one is entitled to one red cent by virtue of the fact that they work hard. People are paid based on what they produce be that widgets, advice, or information.

Go back to community college and take economics 101…you’d likely learn a few things.

I also don’t buy any so called well being index as an accurate predictor of well-being. That said, how about.

Current Communist Countries: China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam.

Notice any similarities? How about repression of human rights, and relatively low standards of living?

How about this list? http://www.heritage.org/Index/countries.cfm

I’ll summarize: The top 10 countries on the index of economic freedom are:

Hong Kong
Singapore
Ireland
Australia
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Chile
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The bottom 10 are:
Burma
Libya
Zimbabwe
Cuba
North Korea
Montenegro
Serbia
Sudan
Iraq
Democratic Republic of the Congo

Where would you rather live?

Stan

[TheBreeze]

[quote=stansd]CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

[/quote]

So your friend loaded up on credit card debt and got lucky and hit it big? Who’s capital was he putting at risk exactly? What if he had failed? Then his debt would have gotten thrown in with the other a-holes as part of this $700 billion bailout.

For every lucky super-rich person who started out loaded up on credit card and got lucky and hit it big, there are 1,000 failures who declare bankruptcy and who pawn their debt off to taxpayers. Your friend took advantage of the American credit system, got lucky and hit it big. All that America asks is that he pay his fair share of taxes in return.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=stansd]CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

[/quote]

So your friend loaded up on credit card debt and got lucky and hit it big? Who’s capital was he putting at risk exactly? What if he had failed? Then his debt would have gotten thrown in with the other a-holes as part of this $700 billion bailout.

For every lucky super-rich person who started out loaded up on credit card and got lucky and hit it big, there are 1,000 failures who declare bankruptcy and who pawn their debt off to taxpayers. Your friend took advantage of the American credit system, got lucky and hit it big. All that America asks is that he pay his fair share of taxes in return.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=stansd]CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

[/quote]

So your friend loaded up on credit card debt and got lucky and hit it big? Who’s capital was he putting at risk exactly? What if he had failed? Then his debt would have gotten thrown in with the other a-holes as part of this $700 billion bailout.

For every lucky super-rich person who started out loaded up on credit card and got lucky and hit it big, there are 1,000 failures who declare bankruptcy and who pawn their debt off to taxpayers. Your friend took advantage of the American credit system, got lucky and hit it big. All that America asks is that he pay his fair share of taxes in return.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=stansd]CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

[/quote]

So your friend loaded up on credit card debt and got lucky and hit it big? Who’s capital was he putting at risk exactly? What if he had failed? Then his debt would have gotten thrown in with the other a-holes as part of this $700 billion bailout.

For every lucky super-rich person who started out loaded up on credit card and got lucky and hit it big, there are 1,000 failures who declare bankruptcy and who pawn their debt off to taxpayers. Your friend took advantage of the American credit system, got lucky and hit it big. All that America asks is that he pay his fair share of taxes in return.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=stansd]CA Renter: Now worth responding.

Did all those who are rich earn it? Not necessarily. Some were crooks, some got lucky, and some earned it.

That said, who the hell do all those WORKERS work for and why do they have jobs? Didn’t someone have to put capital at risk to start the business? Didn’t someone have to develop a business plan, hire the first worker, advertise, market, finance, make, distribute, etc?

I have a close friend that just sold his business for $25 million. I was there with him when he had 40k on his credit cards, and was sweating if he’d get his frist customer. I was there when he hired his people, built his software platform, closed his first deal, etc. I’ve seen first hand how his product makes the lives of his customers better, and ultimately benefits society by better allocation of resources (it’s a market forecasting tool). He’s rich now by most standards at the ripe old age of 32, but he earned every cent by bringing something of value into existence that never would have existed without his ideas, hard work, and creativity. He incidently employs 25 retired veterans, most of which make six figures working part time from home (they are highly skilled).

[/quote]

So your friend loaded up on credit card debt and got lucky and hit it big? Who’s capital was he putting at risk exactly? What if he had failed? Then his debt would have gotten thrown in with the other a-holes as part of this $700 billion bailout.

For every lucky super-rich person who started out loaded up on credit card and got lucky and hit it big, there are 1,000 failures who declare bankruptcy and who pawn their debt off to taxpayers. Your friend took advantage of the American credit system, got lucky and hit it big. All that America asks is that he pay his fair share of taxes in return.

[CA renter]

BTW, communism is as much like socialism as capitalism is like socialism. That’s the problem with people in the U.S.; they confuse the two. Were you not taught the difference in your community college classes?

I am as opposed to communism as I am to Darwinian capitalism.

You are also confusing government/political structure with economic policies. Though they are related, they are not the same.

I’m a libertarian where civil liberties are concerned, and a strong advocate for personal freedoms, privacy rights, and freedom from government oppression — and people need access to the means that will ensure they will always have control over the government.

Property rights fit in an odd category because I strongly support the concept of private property/land ownership (even oppose property taxes, HOAs, etc.), but believe land ownership should not be concentrated into too few hands. IOW, everyone should be entitled to own — free and clear of any encumbrances (after paying off a mortgage) — a primary residence and a piece of commercial real estate from which they can work.

I support the free-market approach **where the actions of certain companies/people do NOT pose a threat to society in general.** Because of this, I believe a country’s natural resources belong to the citizens (air, water, minerals, agricultural products, etc.) and should either be owned or regulated by a government that is controlled by the people. Also, basic necessities should be owned or controlled by the public, because private ownership/control of these things opens the door to corruption, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth and power — essentially ceding control of the country to a small group of oligopolists, resulting in a Plutocratic government. Public control over a nation’s own currency is imperative (no private Federal Reserve).

You are thinking in terms of black-and-white, when alternatives are far more diverse (and don’t necessarily have to conform to any existing theory or category).

BTW, can we stop with the childish personal taunts and debate the issues? Those who resort to personal attacks and dodge the issues usually do not have the facts on their side.

[CA renter]

BTW, communism is as much like socialism as capitalism is like socialism. That’s the problem with people in the U.S.; they confuse the two. Were you not taught the difference in your community college classes?

I am as opposed to communism as I am to Darwinian capitalism.

You are also confusing government/political structure with economic policies. Though they are related, they are not the same.

I’m a libertarian where civil liberties are concerned, and a strong advocate for personal freedoms, privacy rights, and freedom from government oppression — and people need access to the means that will ensure they will always have control over the government.

Property rights fit in an odd category because I strongly support the concept of private property/land ownership (even oppose property taxes, HOAs, etc.), but believe land ownership should not be concentrated into too few hands. IOW, everyone should be entitled to own — free and clear of any encumbrances (after paying off a mortgage) — a primary residence and a piece of commercial real estate from which they can work.

I support the free-market approach **where the actions of certain companies/people do NOT pose a threat to society in general.** Because of this, I believe a country’s natural resources belong to the citizens (air, water, minerals, agricultural products, etc.) and should either be owned or regulated by a government that is controlled by the people. Also, basic necessities should be owned or controlled by the public, because private ownership/control of these things opens the door to corruption, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth and power — essentially ceding control of the country to a small group of oligopolists, resulting in a Plutocratic government. Public control over a nation’s own currency is imperative (no private Federal Reserve).

You are thinking in terms of black-and-white, when alternatives are far more diverse (and don’t necessarily have to conform to any existing theory or category).

BTW, can we stop with the childish personal taunts and debate the issues? Those who resort to personal attacks and dodge the issues usually do not have the facts on their side.

[CA renter]

BTW, communism is as much like socialism as capitalism is like socialism. That’s the problem with people in the U.S.; they confuse the two. Were you not taught the difference in your community college classes?

I am as opposed to communism as I am to Darwinian capitalism.

You are also confusing government/political structure with economic policies. Though they are related, they are not the same.

I’m a libertarian where civil liberties are concerned, and a strong advocate for personal freedoms, privacy rights, and freedom from government oppression — and people need access to the means that will ensure they will always have control over the government.

Property rights fit in an odd category because I strongly support the concept of private property/land ownership (even oppose property taxes, HOAs, etc.), but believe land ownership should not be concentrated into too few hands. IOW, everyone should be entitled to own — free and clear of any encumbrances (after paying off a mortgage) — a primary residence and a piece of commercial real estate from which they can work.

I support the free-market approach **where the actions of certain companies/people do NOT pose a threat to society in general.** Because of this, I believe a country’s natural resources belong to the citizens (air, water, minerals, agricultural products, etc.) and should either be owned or regulated by a government that is controlled by the people. Also, basic necessities should be owned or controlled by the public, because private ownership/control of these things opens the door to corruption, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth and power — essentially ceding control of the country to a small group of oligopolists, resulting in a Plutocratic government. Public control over a nation’s own currency is imperative (no private Federal Reserve).

You are thinking in terms of black-and-white, when alternatives are far more diverse (and don’t necessarily have to conform to any existing theory or category).

BTW, can we stop with the childish personal taunts and debate the issues? Those who resort to personal attacks and dodge the issues usually do not have the facts on their side.

[CA renter]

BTW, communism is as much like socialism as capitalism is like socialism. That’s the problem with people in the U.S.; they confuse the two. Were you not taught the difference in your community college classes?

I am as opposed to communism as I am to Darwinian capitalism.

You are also confusing government/political structure with economic policies. Though they are related, they are not the same.

I’m a libertarian where civil liberties are concerned, and a strong advocate for personal freedoms, privacy rights, and freedom from government oppression — and people need access to the means that will ensure they will always have control over the government.

Property rights fit in an odd category because I strongly support the concept of private property/land ownership (even oppose property taxes, HOAs, etc.), but believe land ownership should not be concentrated into too few hands. IOW, everyone should be entitled to own — free and clear of any encumbrances (after paying off a mortgage) — a primary residence and a piece of commercial real estate from which they can work.

I support the free-market approach **where the actions of certain companies/people do NOT pose a threat to society in general.** Because of this, I believe a country’s natural resources belong to the citizens (air, water, minerals, agricultural products, etc.) and should either be owned or regulated by a government that is controlled by the people. Also, basic necessities should be owned or controlled by the public, because private ownership/control of these things opens the door to corruption, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth and power — essentially ceding control of the country to a small group of oligopolists, resulting in a Plutocratic government. Public control over a nation’s own currency is imperative (no private Federal Reserve).

You are thinking in terms of black-and-white, when alternatives are far more diverse (and don’t necessarily have to conform to any existing theory or category).

BTW, can we stop with the childish personal taunts and debate the issues? Those who resort to personal attacks and dodge the issues usually do not have the facts on their side.

[CA renter]

BTW, communism is as much like socialism as capitalism is like socialism. That’s the problem with people in the U.S.; they confuse the two. Were you not taught the difference in your community college classes?

I am as opposed to communism as I am to Darwinian capitalism.

You are also confusing government/political structure with economic policies. Though they are related, they are not the same.

I’m a libertarian where civil liberties are concerned, and a strong advocate for personal freedoms, privacy rights, and freedom from government oppression — and people need access to the means that will ensure they will always have control over the government.

Property rights fit in an odd category because I strongly support the concept of private property/land ownership (even oppose property taxes, HOAs, etc.), but believe land ownership should not be concentrated into too few hands. IOW, everyone should be entitled to own — free and clear of any encumbrances (after paying off a mortgage) — a primary residence and a piece of commercial real estate from which they can work.

I support the free-market approach **where the actions of certain companies/people do NOT pose a threat to society in general.** Because of this, I believe a country’s natural resources belong to the citizens (air, water, minerals, agricultural products, etc.) and should either be owned or regulated by a government that is controlled by the people. Also, basic necessities should be owned or controlled by the public, because private ownership/control of these things opens the door to corruption, and an unhealthy concentration of wealth and power — essentially ceding control of the country to a small group of oligopolists, resulting in a Plutocratic government. Public control over a nation’s own currency is imperative (no private Federal Reserve).

You are thinking in terms of black-and-white, when alternatives are far more diverse (and don’t necessarily have to conform to any existing theory or category).

BTW, can we stop with the childish personal taunts and debate the issues? Those who resort to personal attacks and dodge the issues usually do not have the facts on their side.

[stansd]

“CA Renter, I served with libertarians. I know libertarians. Libertarians are friends of mine, and I am a libertarian. CA Renter, you’re no libertarian.”

A socialist, a capitalist and a communist agreed to meet. The socialist was late. ‘Excuse me for being late, I was standing in a queue for sausages.’

‘And what is a queue?’ the capitalist asked.

‘And what is a sausage?’ the communist asked.

Stan

[stansd]

“CA Renter, I served with libertarians. I know libertarians. Libertarians are friends of mine, and I am a libertarian. CA Renter, you’re no libertarian.”

A socialist, a capitalist and a communist agreed to meet. The socialist was late. ‘Excuse me for being late, I was standing in a queue for sausages.’

‘And what is a queue?’ the capitalist asked.

‘And what is a sausage?’ the communist asked.

Stan

[Author]

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