Talked to Thornberg

[CardiffBaseball]

Take down the organizations which abuse power and hurt their fellow man. Corrupt institutions which preach hatred

I am hoping we can start with the Rainbow Coalition and PETA?  Let's get some RICO trials going!!! 

[CardiffBaseball]

Take down the organizations which abuse power and hurt their fellow man. Corrupt institutions which preach hatred

I am hoping we can start with the Rainbow Coalition and PETA?  Let's get some RICO trials going!!! 

[4runner]

Religion is NOT an inseparable part of every successful culture. It is a vestigial part of our society and brave honest men should try to remove it and replace it with something else. Religion reminds me of a military dictatorship which has to hold on – because if they don’t they will be tried by the people who have been injured by it. Look at our current culture in the US. What part of the country is religious? Is La Jolla still intact because of religion? There are so many sects and so many non-believers that I beg to differ.

Cyphire,

My point is that religion is so intertwined in society that you can’t separate it out. Please answer one question: without religion, why is it “wrong” to kill your next door neighbor so you can drive his BMW? Is it just uneconomical? Or is the legal prohibition of murder religious law enforced through secular means?

In this sense, La Jolla is incredibly religious. The BMW’s driven by a bunch of retirees are certainly ripe for the picking by any fool with a crowbar…

As for different religions, most religions are so similar at their core that, for the benefit of society, it doesn’t matter what religion people actually are, it just matters that they are religious.

[4runner]

Religion is NOT an inseparable part of every successful culture. It is a vestigial part of our society and brave honest men should try to remove it and replace it with something else. Religion reminds me of a military dictatorship which has to hold on – because if they don’t they will be tried by the people who have been injured by it. Look at our current culture in the US. What part of the country is religious? Is La Jolla still intact because of religion? There are so many sects and so many non-believers that I beg to differ.

Cyphire,

My point is that religion is so intertwined in society that you can’t separate it out. Please answer one question: without religion, why is it “wrong” to kill your next door neighbor so you can drive his BMW? Is it just uneconomical? Or is the legal prohibition of murder religious law enforced through secular means?

In this sense, La Jolla is incredibly religious. The BMW’s driven by a bunch of retirees are certainly ripe for the picking by any fool with a crowbar…

As for different religions, most religions are so similar at their core that, for the benefit of society, it doesn’t matter what religion people actually are, it just matters that they are religious.

[NotCranky]

4runner You and I are so similiar at our core that it doesn’t matter if we are religious or not.I would not harm or steal from you because we in many ways rely on each other to survive.I do not want to risk retaliation for hurting your interests because that threatens my survival both immediately and when my son and your daughter need eachother to promote the race.When survival or the perception of one’s ability to survive is threatened the stuff hits the fan. Sometimes this reality or perception results in stolen BMW’s. As humans sometimes this phenomena plays out on a grand scale and we have wars,usually religion is used to promote support that primative endeavor. Rationalism might help us avoid it. So might a really ethical religion but IMO religion is a slippery slope. Monkeys are not religious but they don’t kill each other under normal circumstances. You really mistrust human instincts and intellect apparently. It seems you also gloss over the negative aspects of religion? You also seem to think that all inspiration for dicipline comes from some religious source. We discipline our children and ourselves, they and my wife and I are capable of living lifes adventures side by side with yours and you(if you have them). Now throw in oil (survival) a couple of different religions, like say Christianity and Islam and you have fodder for a crusade.

[NotCranky]

4runner You and I are so similiar at our core that it doesn’t matter if we are religious or not.I would not harm or steal from you because we in many ways rely on each other to survive.I do not want to risk retaliation for hurting your interests because that threatens my survival both immediately and when my son and your daughter need eachother to promote the race.When survival or the perception of one’s ability to survive is threatened the stuff hits the fan. Sometimes this reality or perception results in stolen BMW’s. As humans sometimes this phenomena plays out on a grand scale and we have wars,usually religion is used to promote support that primative endeavor. Rationalism might help us avoid it. So might a really ethical religion but IMO religion is a slippery slope. Monkeys are not religious but they don’t kill each other under normal circumstances. You really mistrust human instincts and intellect apparently. It seems you also gloss over the negative aspects of religion? You also seem to think that all inspiration for dicipline comes from some religious source. We discipline our children and ourselves, they and my wife and I are capable of living lifes adventures side by side with yours and you(if you have them). Now throw in oil (survival) a couple of different religions, like say Christianity and Islam and you have fodder for a crusade.

[cyphire]

Ahhh Rustico!!! Thank you – you keep me sane! I’m sorry I’ve been off in the woods for a few days, been a little out of sorts with my new found intellectual/financial freedom (deciding the course of my next 10 years business-wise) and wanted to chime in before I leave for vacation (will be gone tomorrow – alas – but will bring my computer with me).

Rustico – at the risk of ass kissing and being branded a wild-eyed liberal – Bill Mahr, John Stewart, and Rustico are keeping me sane.

I don’t have time for serious blogging study – just checking in – so…..

4Runner. Because society has grown up with religion (and it’s waning now, at least in our more educated, privileged society), doesn’t mean that it is the reason I am not going out on a raping rampage. I agree that many religions are the same in their views toward society – but I prefer my rules and laws straight, without them being watered down by a self-serving priest class.

Neighbors build strong fences to remain good neighbors, the wealthier a person is, the more say they have in protecting their property and creating their laws. There are lots of pressures on society to not go wild, there is the legal system and the police enforcement. Religion is a mixed bag, there are rational people who are religious and some loonies. There of course, is the undercurrent of people basing their violence and evil on religion – this is one of the reasons that I find religion distasteful (see George Bush and his group of savages).

As to jg and his “monogamy, religion, nuclear family” — is the tried and true method, while the antithesis — free love and communal raising of children (aka, the public school ideal) — has consistently failed.” I would say this:

Our nuclear family culture is somewhat weak and twisted compared to history and the rest of the world. We send our old folks off to homes, keep boundaries with our brothers and sisters families, most of history and other cultures have extended families, grandparents staying with the grandchildren, large extended families supporting each other – nope not for the US and it’s 50’s mentality of the Levitt house and separate lives. So sorry jg – it’s not a supportive loving situation compared with how it should be.

Some cultures have multiple wives, lots of societies (most?) have mistresses for successful men as a matter of course. I’m not legislating for it – but divorce goes down DRAMATICALLY when the women you marry keeps her social position in society and the kids are always provided for while releasing pressure for men to do what men do (sorry it interferes with your dogma – but I’m talking biology, not crowd control and religious imposed rules). Perhaps if, for example, priests could have sex, they would bring it out in the open instead of secret gay liaisons and pedophilia. Plus of course the leaders of the religion wouldn’t have to cover it up (for the good of their congregation of course!!!) By the way – I am not talking about the majority of priests, just a statistically significant amount of gay priests, as well as a sick group of church-protected rapists. Anyway – these cultures have much less divorce and it works for them – so too bad your view of what is ‘correct’ is what your prejudice’s have been fed.

There are many, many parts of the planet (probably the majority during history) where kids are raised by the village. Where kids are much more autonomous and stay together as a group. What about the Israeli creche system? Kibbutz’s? The kibbutz is probably the most supportive child raising system – it doesn’t rely on a man going out to work and never seeing his kids, while the woman stays home and watches them (and goes crazy). I would suggest that your Ozzie and Harriet mentality is actually not only not the way to go, but is a major contributing factor in our culture. Final note – we have become a country of dual income earners. We do this because of the pressures of society and consumerism. Think it’s a healthy environment where the kids are latch-keys?

Anyway – it’s the system I’m used to – I just don’t drop to my knees and believe every bit of crap I hear from authority figures (priests, George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, etc.)

Why not open your eyes up to history, the world around you and a new vision of where our culture can improve – without singing ‘that old time religion!’.

Whew! Was it worth it, not sure. I agree Rustico – that you can’t change anyones viewpoint over 30.

[cyphire]

Ahhh Rustico!!! Thank you – you keep me sane! I’m sorry I’ve been off in the woods for a few days, been a little out of sorts with my new found intellectual/financial freedom (deciding the course of my next 10 years business-wise) and wanted to chime in before I leave for vacation (will be gone tomorrow – alas – but will bring my computer with me).

Rustico – at the risk of ass kissing and being branded a wild-eyed liberal – Bill Mahr, John Stewart, and Rustico are keeping me sane.

I don’t have time for serious blogging study – just checking in – so…..

4Runner. Because society has grown up with religion (and it’s waning now, at least in our more educated, privileged society), doesn’t mean that it is the reason I am not going out on a raping rampage. I agree that many religions are the same in their views toward society – but I prefer my rules and laws straight, without them being watered down by a self-serving priest class.

Neighbors build strong fences to remain good neighbors, the wealthier a person is, the more say they have in protecting their property and creating their laws. There are lots of pressures on society to not go wild, there is the legal system and the police enforcement. Religion is a mixed bag, there are rational people who are religious and some loonies. There of course, is the undercurrent of people basing their violence and evil on religion – this is one of the reasons that I find religion distasteful (see George Bush and his group of savages).

As to jg and his “monogamy, religion, nuclear family” — is the tried and true method, while the antithesis — free love and communal raising of children (aka, the public school ideal) — has consistently failed.” I would say this:

Our nuclear family culture is somewhat weak and twisted compared to history and the rest of the world. We send our old folks off to homes, keep boundaries with our brothers and sisters families, most of history and other cultures have extended families, grandparents staying with the grandchildren, large extended families supporting each other – nope not for the US and it’s 50’s mentality of the Levitt house and separate lives. So sorry jg – it’s not a supportive loving situation compared with how it should be.

Some cultures have multiple wives, lots of societies (most?) have mistresses for successful men as a matter of course. I’m not legislating for it – but divorce goes down DRAMATICALLY when the women you marry keeps her social position in society and the kids are always provided for while releasing pressure for men to do what men do (sorry it interferes with your dogma – but I’m talking biology, not crowd control and religious imposed rules). Perhaps if, for example, priests could have sex, they would bring it out in the open instead of secret gay liaisons and pedophilia. Plus of course the leaders of the religion wouldn’t have to cover it up (for the good of their congregation of course!!!) By the way – I am not talking about the majority of priests, just a statistically significant amount of gay priests, as well as a sick group of church-protected rapists. Anyway – these cultures have much less divorce and it works for them – so too bad your view of what is ‘correct’ is what your prejudice’s have been fed.

There are many, many parts of the planet (probably the majority during history) where kids are raised by the village. Where kids are much more autonomous and stay together as a group. What about the Israeli creche system? Kibbutz’s? The kibbutz is probably the most supportive child raising system – it doesn’t rely on a man going out to work and never seeing his kids, while the woman stays home and watches them (and goes crazy). I would suggest that your Ozzie and Harriet mentality is actually not only not the way to go, but is a major contributing factor in our culture. Final note – we have become a country of dual income earners. We do this because of the pressures of society and consumerism. Think it’s a healthy environment where the kids are latch-keys?

Anyway – it’s the system I’m used to – I just don’t drop to my knees and believe every bit of crap I hear from authority figures (priests, George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, etc.)

Why not open your eyes up to history, the world around you and a new vision of where our culture can improve – without singing ‘that old time religion!’.

Whew! Was it worth it, not sure. I agree Rustico – that you can’t change anyones viewpoint over 30.

[Anonymous]

cyphire, my sense is that during the upcoming depression, we’ll be having a return of families taking care of their own, instead of institutionalizing them.

Our silly spending — since ’81, consumption has moved from its historical norm of ~60% up to ~70% — has allowed many to ‘farm out’ maintenance of their kids, parents, etc.

Such will be gone within a decade.

[Anonymous]

cyphire, my sense is that during the upcoming depression, we’ll be having a return of families taking care of their own, instead of institutionalizing them.

Our silly spending — since ’81, consumption has moved from its historical norm of ~60% up to ~70% — has allowed many to ‘farm out’ maintenance of their kids, parents, etc.

Such will be gone within a decade.

[NotCranky]

Cy I thought you had left for good. It pobably would have been a good idea if you came back here to debate. I have found that those who would debate us bail when the sosphistication and sensibility of the argument exceeds their prejudices. It doesn’t take long before they move off to engage in voyeuristic pursuits regarding female posters and include their young Catholic offspring.Otherwise they would rather play games of baiting and name calling on other threads or create new ones. I think someone is playing a “survivor” type game, called the last Asshole standing. Not worth engaging seriously. They won’t even answer simple pointed questions directed at their fallacies nor do they bother to ask for clarification.Just more goofing.
Anyway good to see you . I hope my contribution to RE related things here have been useful. BTW lookout below posted a link to and awesome movie. Zeitgeist. Have a great vacation.
Best wishes

[NotCranky]

Cy I thought you had left for good. It pobably would have been a good idea if you came back here to debate. I have found that those who would debate us bail when the sosphistication and sensibility of the argument exceeds their prejudices. It doesn’t take long before they move off to engage in voyeuristic pursuits regarding female posters and include their young Catholic offspring.Otherwise they would rather play games of baiting and name calling on other threads or create new ones. I think someone is playing a “survivor” type game, called the last Asshole standing. Not worth engaging seriously. They won’t even answer simple pointed questions directed at their fallacies nor do they bother to ask for clarification.Just more goofing.
Anyway good to see you . I hope my contribution to RE related things here have been useful. BTW lookout below posted a link to and awesome movie. Zeitgeist. Have a great vacation.
Best wishes

[PerryChase]

cyphire and rustico, I’m glad you guys are here. You make this board more interesting.

btw, rustico, I’m planning soon to try out that Mexican restaurant you recommended.

[PerryChase]

cyphire and rustico, I’m glad you guys are here. You make this board more interesting.

btw, rustico, I’m planning soon to try out that Mexican restaurant you recommended.

[NotCranky]

Thanks Perry, You have been one of my favorites from the start. Even if you are a Lib.LOL You want to know something funny? My Real Estate supervisor is a christian republican from La Jolla.

About the restaurant,besides the food, I hope it is as good of a cultural experience for you as it is for me.It is always a nice friendly taste of Mexico in more ways than one.The owners are from Merida. Maybe you will get a chance to practice your spanish ?

[Author]

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