Talked to Thornberg

[NotCranky]

$runner
“Indeed, I think that Cyphire and Rustico are quite naive in a charming sort of way. They are unable to conceive of people acting inhumanely toward others–unable to recognize how fragile society is. I think that this naivete is a measure of the success of religion.”

Of course I can concieve of people acting inhumanely. What do you thing I am complaining about? I am pissed about our mudering of 100’s of thousands of innocent people suppported by and for the sake of validating religion with a power broker and populist collective profit motive lurking underneath.
I know how fragile a society is and I am concerned that ours is going to be damaged badly for these lies and transgressions.

[NotCranky]

$runner
“Indeed, I think that Cyphire and Rustico are quite naive in a charming sort of way. They are unable to conceive of people acting inhumanely toward others–unable to recognize how fragile society is. I think that this naivete is a measure of the success of religion.”

Of course I can concieve of people acting inhumanely. What do you thing I am complaining about? I am pissed about our mudering of 100’s of thousands of innocent people suppported by and for the sake of validating religion with a power broker and populist collective profit motive lurking underneath.
I know how fragile a society is and I am concerned that ours is going to be damaged badly for these lies and transgressions.

[cyphire]

I agree… Look at GW if you want to see self-serving and inhumanity. A man who actually laughed about killing a retarded criminal. A man who will sacrifice thousands of soldiers and tens of thousands of civilians instead of admitting his mistakes and incompetence.

Amazing…. In claiming to try to stop terrorism, he has become the number one terrorist. Torturing and kidnapping people in the name of god and country. If we had any credibility in the world, it is shot now. Why would anyone look up to or follow a nation which condones torture and which tramples on it’s own civil liberties. A nation which executes other human beings in order to get vengeance. A nation which kills for oil and rapes the environment in order not to upset the economic status quo for it’s wealthier denizens.

Sadistic guards beating and torturing both the enemies as well as the innocents – because there is no system of checks and balances and a flawed command structure where if the king doesn’t get the consensus for his flawed ideology, the generals are fired or demoted. Honorable fighting men and women sacrificed for bad judgment and a need to hold on to the power lever or the enemies of it’s religious agenda would take over…. The list goes on…

Lucky that Paris Hilton and other important news is on the forefront of the citizens minds, they don’t realize that a dangerous lunatic is in command and is destroying the nation that we sing about.

[cyphire]

I agree… Look at GW if you want to see self-serving and inhumanity. A man who actually laughed about killing a retarded criminal. A man who will sacrifice thousands of soldiers and tens of thousands of civilians instead of admitting his mistakes and incompetence.

Amazing…. In claiming to try to stop terrorism, he has become the number one terrorist. Torturing and kidnapping people in the name of god and country. If we had any credibility in the world, it is shot now. Why would anyone look up to or follow a nation which condones torture and which tramples on it’s own civil liberties. A nation which executes other human beings in order to get vengeance. A nation which kills for oil and rapes the environment in order not to upset the economic status quo for it’s wealthier denizens.

Sadistic guards beating and torturing both the enemies as well as the innocents – because there is no system of checks and balances and a flawed command structure where if the king doesn’t get the consensus for his flawed ideology, the generals are fired or demoted. Honorable fighting men and women sacrificed for bad judgment and a need to hold on to the power lever or the enemies of it’s religious agenda would take over…. The list goes on…

Lucky that Paris Hilton and other important news is on the forefront of the citizens minds, they don’t realize that a dangerous lunatic is in command and is destroying the nation that we sing about.

[CardiffBaseball]

I guess being christian is somehow equated with being republican. My father-in-law is a southern dixie Jimmuh Carter democrat who can’t stand NeoCons. I guess that makes him smart. Wait, like Jimmy he is Christian, check that he is stupid.

Ahh, but he has a PhD, and teaches college, he can’t be stupid. Oh wait his PhD is in theology, he must be a dummy. His career was spent overseas, enlightening him to many cultures, outside of our boorish American ways so he is back out of “dummy”. Ah crap he was a Christian missionary spreading dangerous western culture. Forget all that stuff about getting clean running water, setting up primary care clinics, etc. His intentions were not noble enough (pay no attention to the ACTION, with liberals and the mind police it is your INTENTION that matters)

After all he wasn’t doing that stuff on the government tit, but instead through the voluntary donations of others who clearly had an agenda. (Go and make disciples)

I’ll let him know that if he wants acceptance of the enlightened, he’ll need to become less a humble servant, and more a critic of the bourgeois.

Viva la France!!!

[CardiffBaseball]

I guess being christian is somehow equated with being republican. My father-in-law is a southern dixie Jimmuh Carter democrat who can’t stand NeoCons. I guess that makes him smart. Wait, like Jimmy he is Christian, check that he is stupid.

Ahh, but he has a PhD, and teaches college, he can’t be stupid. Oh wait his PhD is in theology, he must be a dummy. His career was spent overseas, enlightening him to many cultures, outside of our boorish American ways so he is back out of “dummy”. Ah crap he was a Christian missionary spreading dangerous western culture. Forget all that stuff about getting clean running water, setting up primary care clinics, etc. His intentions were not noble enough (pay no attention to the ACTION, with liberals and the mind police it is your INTENTION that matters)

After all he wasn’t doing that stuff on the government tit, but instead through the voluntary donations of others who clearly had an agenda. (Go and make disciples)

I’ll let him know that if he wants acceptance of the enlightened, he’ll need to become less a humble servant, and more a critic of the bourgeois.

Viva la France!!!

[4runner]

Hey guys,

As for Sweden, a culturally homogeneous society with a strong Lutheran heritage that has been secular for what– 1.5 generations, at most??– and is currently failing to produce enough citizens to replace those who are dying hardly constitutes “proof” that religion can whimsically be discarded…

As for demagogues– there have always been stupid people who can be manipulated by others. Yes– religion has been used to manipulate people and it will continue to be used so long as there are stupid people in the world.

Discarding religion will not end the demagoguery. People will not suddenly become smarter when religion is removed from a society.

Please ask yourselves this question: If you were a self-serving demagogue who craved power, would you want to be in a society with strong religious roots or in a secular society?

As most demagogues go, most of them seem to oppose religion. Ask yourselves why…

Look– many, many moons ago, I pointed out that a large component of the traditional religions was a set of economic laws that had been developed, through trial and error, over generations. These economic laws represent cultural intelligence– the opposite of the stupidity which you decry.

Our ancestors may not have known how to build an i-pod, but they sure as hell understood human interactions. What’s more, with survival on the line daily, I suspect that they paid a lot more attention to what works in human societies than most modern-day, live-in-a-SFR-in-suburbia, bowl-alone, spend three-hours-a-day-watching-TV Americans.

Once again, you discard that intelligence at your peril…

[4runner]

Hey guys,

As for Sweden, a culturally homogeneous society with a strong Lutheran heritage that has been secular for what– 1.5 generations, at most??– and is currently failing to produce enough citizens to replace those who are dying hardly constitutes “proof” that religion can whimsically be discarded…

As for demagogues– there have always been stupid people who can be manipulated by others. Yes– religion has been used to manipulate people and it will continue to be used so long as there are stupid people in the world.

Discarding religion will not end the demagoguery. People will not suddenly become smarter when religion is removed from a society.

Please ask yourselves this question: If you were a self-serving demagogue who craved power, would you want to be in a society with strong religious roots or in a secular society?

As most demagogues go, most of them seem to oppose religion. Ask yourselves why…

Look– many, many moons ago, I pointed out that a large component of the traditional religions was a set of economic laws that had been developed, through trial and error, over generations. These economic laws represent cultural intelligence– the opposite of the stupidity which you decry.

Our ancestors may not have known how to build an i-pod, but they sure as hell understood human interactions. What’s more, with survival on the line daily, I suspect that they paid a lot more attention to what works in human societies than most modern-day, live-in-a-SFR-in-suburbia, bowl-alone, spend three-hours-a-day-watching-TV Americans.

Once again, you discard that intelligence at your peril…

[cyphire]

I didn’t say that religious people are less intelligent, I said that the Swedes (as do many people) consider that the more religious someone is, the less intelligent they are. That doesn’t mean that they are right. I would argue, however, that there is a vast amount of mindless sheep which follow religion (in the ranks), and that they, as a whole, are probably less intelligent than a group of people who have renounced the shackles of religion.

As to your father-in-law I think that it’s great that he gave clean water and modern conveniences to those who are less fortunate. I’m also sure that he is very smart, no one called him less intelligent because he is religious. As a Christian missionary, I do think that he was doing bad while doing good. Sorry – I think it’s despicable to help people as long as they have to take the poison with it.

I hope that some of the benefactors of his good work were just paying lip service to having his theology forced down their throats. When very poor people have to hear a sermon to have their free lunch, it does a disservice to the ideals of charity and good deads. When Bush won’t use federal money if there is any contraception or abortion in an organization, he is preaching his hate based religion along with the carrot of money for the poor.

It’s a sad world when religion is involved. Missionaries have been responsible for a lot of sadness and evil in this world. Read James Mitchner’s Hawaii – if you want an account of hypocrisy and evil in the name of religion.

Question for you CardiffBaseball? If he wasn’t allowed to preach his beliefs, would his group still have done the good works? Just wondering. To many people, spreading Christianity is not a good thing – it’s a reprehensible action taken by cult-like hypocrites.

Sorry – just my and many others opinion. By the way it’s hard to measure the good that missionaries do by helping people along with the bad they do by bringing foreign ideologies into native peoples own belief system. I think that religion is the dirty paste which gums up the positive potential of a society. If we didn’t have all these fantasy worshipers each absolutely sure of their own brand of fantasy, perhaps people would group together to help others instead of being afraid of them.

[cyphire]

I didn’t say that religious people are less intelligent, I said that the Swedes (as do many people) consider that the more religious someone is, the less intelligent they are. That doesn’t mean that they are right. I would argue, however, that there is a vast amount of mindless sheep which follow religion (in the ranks), and that they, as a whole, are probably less intelligent than a group of people who have renounced the shackles of religion.

As to your father-in-law I think that it’s great that he gave clean water and modern conveniences to those who are less fortunate. I’m also sure that he is very smart, no one called him less intelligent because he is religious. As a Christian missionary, I do think that he was doing bad while doing good. Sorry – I think it’s despicable to help people as long as they have to take the poison with it.

I hope that some of the benefactors of his good work were just paying lip service to having his theology forced down their throats. When very poor people have to hear a sermon to have their free lunch, it does a disservice to the ideals of charity and good deads. When Bush won’t use federal money if there is any contraception or abortion in an organization, he is preaching his hate based religion along with the carrot of money for the poor.

It’s a sad world when religion is involved. Missionaries have been responsible for a lot of sadness and evil in this world. Read James Mitchner’s Hawaii – if you want an account of hypocrisy and evil in the name of religion.

Question for you CardiffBaseball? If he wasn’t allowed to preach his beliefs, would his group still have done the good works? Just wondering. To many people, spreading Christianity is not a good thing – it’s a reprehensible action taken by cult-like hypocrites.

Sorry – just my and many others opinion. By the way it’s hard to measure the good that missionaries do by helping people along with the bad they do by bringing foreign ideologies into native peoples own belief system. I think that religion is the dirty paste which gums up the positive potential of a society. If we didn’t have all these fantasy worshipers each absolutely sure of their own brand of fantasy, perhaps people would group together to help others instead of being afraid of them.

[CardiffBaseball]

The world is full of mindless sheep. I am sure amongst the members of PETA I can find a few room temperature IQs. I grew up a union democrat and was a mindless sheep donkey voter as was everyone around me, until I left my comfort zone and started interacting and learning the ideology of REAL liberals (or is it their theology).

Now as to your question, about being allowed to preach his beliefs, his 20 year colleagues from Honduras were executed in Iraq a few short years ago. Now before you get on the “one religion nutjob killing another” I only point this out to show that there are many Christian missionaries that do risk their lives all over the globe. Whether you think this is a waste of their time or not, isn’t important to them.

Now as to the major societies that have banned religion… China, Cuba, Soviet Union. Anything good about these places other than free health care from butchers?

[CardiffBaseball]

The world is full of mindless sheep. I am sure amongst the members of PETA I can find a few room temperature IQs. I grew up a union democrat and was a mindless sheep donkey voter as was everyone around me, until I left my comfort zone and started interacting and learning the ideology of REAL liberals (or is it their theology).

Now as to your question, about being allowed to preach his beliefs, his 20 year colleagues from Honduras were executed in Iraq a few short years ago. Now before you get on the “one religion nutjob killing another” I only point this out to show that there are many Christian missionaries that do risk their lives all over the globe. Whether you think this is a waste of their time or not, isn’t important to them.

Now as to the major societies that have banned religion… China, Cuba, Soviet Union. Anything good about these places other than free health care from butchers?

[Anonymous]

Plea to CB and 4r:

Oh dear logical friends of mine,
Cast not your pearls before the swine.

[Anonymous]

Plea to CB and 4r:

Oh dear logical friends of mine,
Cast not your pearls before the swine.

[Author]

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