plunging birthrate

[patb]

[quote=Eugene]Nonsense. There’s no overshoot, we can feed 50 billion on this planet without breaking a sweat.

[quote]Now, what is even more interesting is juxtaposing the peak oil chart with the human population chart.[/quote]

Populations of Europe and North America got within 1/3 to 1/2 of current levels before oil even became an industrial commodity.[/quote]

True, and look at the conditions they lived in.

Horse drawn carriages of the 19th century littered London a foot deep in manure. Coal fires created killer smogs.

http://edugreen.teri.res.in/explore/air/smog.htm

“The first smog-related deaths were recorded in London in 1873, when it killed 500 people. In 1880, the toll was 2000. London had one of its worst experiences with smog in December 1892. It lasted for three days and resulted in about 1000 deaths. London became quite notorious for its smog. By the end of the 19th century, many people visited London to see the fog. Despite gradual improvements in air quality during the 20th century, another major smog occurred in London in December 1952. The Great London Smog lasted for five days and resulted in about 4000 more deaths than usual. In response to the Great London Smog, the government passed its first Clean Air Act in 1956, ”

yep those hippies may have had a point.

[scaredyclassic]

intro appears in this month’s harpers.

deep.

[scaredyclassic]

intro appears in this month’s harpers.

deep.

[scaredyclassic]

intro appears in this month’s harpers.

deep.

[scaredyclassic]

intro appears in this month’s harpers.

deep.

[scaredyclassic]

intro appears in this month’s harpers.

deep.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
What you are creating is a dialectic. Opposing forces which clash and create a new reality. The old, debtor’s tyranny over productive workers. The greedy debtors that want more verse the productive workers that live within their means and have to suffer. Viewing reality this way will skew your perception and form your allegiances. I think that is a false dialectic. It is, and has always been, money power verse the rest of humanity. Those who want it all, and use their influence over social institutions to influence behavior verse everybody else. It’s part of the dueling perception or narratives that is emerging. With your perception, you are aligning with money power over the majority. So, you mine as well join the tea-party now;)[/quote]

I understand your world view, but I don’t share it. The notion of revolution (collapse and renewal) is romantic and all, but revolution puts uneducated idiots in power, and things get worse, not better.

I don’t see any “tyranny” in Greece.

To me, it’s fairly simple. Before joining the Euro, the Greeks were the poor European cousins. They used to immigrate and work as maids in France and Germany.

After Greece joined the Euro, the government suddenly had strong borrowing power and they borrowed $420 billion to lavish social services on a population of about 11 million.

Greeks civil servants enjoyed benefits exceeding their German counterparts.

However, Greece did not grow the economy or productive capacity.

I believe it’s only reasonable to ask the Greeks to go back to the standard of living of the pre-Euro days.

The Greeks are demonstrating to retain their social benefits (more money/stuff). They are not demonstrating against any tyranny.

So the Greeks have a socialist government now. Will they be stupid enough to elect a right-wing government? A right-wing government will fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia. What good will that do them?

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
What you are creating is a dialectic. Opposing forces which clash and create a new reality. The old, debtor’s tyranny over productive workers. The greedy debtors that want more verse the productive workers that live within their means and have to suffer. Viewing reality this way will skew your perception and form your allegiances. I think that is a false dialectic. It is, and has always been, money power verse the rest of humanity. Those who want it all, and use their influence over social institutions to influence behavior verse everybody else. It’s part of the dueling perception or narratives that is emerging. With your perception, you are aligning with money power over the majority. So, you mine as well join the tea-party now;)[/quote]

I understand your world view, but I don’t share it. The notion of revolution (collapse and renewal) is romantic and all, but revolution puts uneducated idiots in power, and things get worse, not better.

I don’t see any “tyranny” in Greece.

To me, it’s fairly simple. Before joining the Euro, the Greeks were the poor European cousins. They used to immigrate and work as maids in France and Germany.

After Greece joined the Euro, the government suddenly had strong borrowing power and they borrowed $420 billion to lavish social services on a population of about 11 million.

Greeks civil servants enjoyed benefits exceeding their German counterparts.

However, Greece did not grow the economy or productive capacity.

I believe it’s only reasonable to ask the Greeks to go back to the standard of living of the pre-Euro days.

The Greeks are demonstrating to retain their social benefits (more money/stuff). They are not demonstrating against any tyranny.

So the Greeks have a socialist government now. Will they be stupid enough to elect a right-wing government? A right-wing government will fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia. What good will that do them?

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
What you are creating is a dialectic. Opposing forces which clash and create a new reality. The old, debtor’s tyranny over productive workers. The greedy debtors that want more verse the productive workers that live within their means and have to suffer. Viewing reality this way will skew your perception and form your allegiances. I think that is a false dialectic. It is, and has always been, money power verse the rest of humanity. Those who want it all, and use their influence over social institutions to influence behavior verse everybody else. It’s part of the dueling perception or narratives that is emerging. With your perception, you are aligning with money power over the majority. So, you mine as well join the tea-party now;)[/quote]

I understand your world view, but I don’t share it. The notion of revolution (collapse and renewal) is romantic and all, but revolution puts uneducated idiots in power, and things get worse, not better.

I don’t see any “tyranny” in Greece.

To me, it’s fairly simple. Before joining the Euro, the Greeks were the poor European cousins. They used to immigrate and work as maids in France and Germany.

After Greece joined the Euro, the government suddenly had strong borrowing power and they borrowed $420 billion to lavish social services on a population of about 11 million.

Greeks civil servants enjoyed benefits exceeding their German counterparts.

However, Greece did not grow the economy or productive capacity.

I believe it’s only reasonable to ask the Greeks to go back to the standard of living of the pre-Euro days.

The Greeks are demonstrating to retain their social benefits (more money/stuff). They are not demonstrating against any tyranny.

So the Greeks have a socialist government now. Will they be stupid enough to elect a right-wing government? A right-wing government will fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia. What good will that do them?

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
What you are creating is a dialectic. Opposing forces which clash and create a new reality. The old, debtor’s tyranny over productive workers. The greedy debtors that want more verse the productive workers that live within their means and have to suffer. Viewing reality this way will skew your perception and form your allegiances. I think that is a false dialectic. It is, and has always been, money power verse the rest of humanity. Those who want it all, and use their influence over social institutions to influence behavior verse everybody else. It’s part of the dueling perception or narratives that is emerging. With your perception, you are aligning with money power over the majority. So, you mine as well join the tea-party now;)[/quote]

I understand your world view, but I don’t share it. The notion of revolution (collapse and renewal) is romantic and all, but revolution puts uneducated idiots in power, and things get worse, not better.

I don’t see any “tyranny” in Greece.

To me, it’s fairly simple. Before joining the Euro, the Greeks were the poor European cousins. They used to immigrate and work as maids in France and Germany.

After Greece joined the Euro, the government suddenly had strong borrowing power and they borrowed $420 billion to lavish social services on a population of about 11 million.

Greeks civil servants enjoyed benefits exceeding their German counterparts.

However, Greece did not grow the economy or productive capacity.

I believe it’s only reasonable to ask the Greeks to go back to the standard of living of the pre-Euro days.

The Greeks are demonstrating to retain their social benefits (more money/stuff). They are not demonstrating against any tyranny.

So the Greeks have a socialist government now. Will they be stupid enough to elect a right-wing government? A right-wing government will fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia. What good will that do them?

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
What you are creating is a dialectic. Opposing forces which clash and create a new reality. The old, debtor’s tyranny over productive workers. The greedy debtors that want more verse the productive workers that live within their means and have to suffer. Viewing reality this way will skew your perception and form your allegiances. I think that is a false dialectic. It is, and has always been, money power verse the rest of humanity. Those who want it all, and use their influence over social institutions to influence behavior verse everybody else. It’s part of the dueling perception or narratives that is emerging. With your perception, you are aligning with money power over the majority. So, you mine as well join the tea-party now;)[/quote]

I understand your world view, but I don’t share it. The notion of revolution (collapse and renewal) is romantic and all, but revolution puts uneducated idiots in power, and things get worse, not better.

I don’t see any “tyranny” in Greece.

To me, it’s fairly simple. Before joining the Euro, the Greeks were the poor European cousins. They used to immigrate and work as maids in France and Germany.

After Greece joined the Euro, the government suddenly had strong borrowing power and they borrowed $420 billion to lavish social services on a population of about 11 million.

Greeks civil servants enjoyed benefits exceeding their German counterparts.

However, Greece did not grow the economy or productive capacity.

I believe it’s only reasonable to ask the Greeks to go back to the standard of living of the pre-Euro days.

The Greeks are demonstrating to retain their social benefits (more money/stuff). They are not demonstrating against any tyranny.

So the Greeks have a socialist government now. Will they be stupid enough to elect a right-wing government? A right-wing government will fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia. What good will that do them?

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]

The “system” is breaking down

More evidence;)

A revolutionary resonance is circling the globe[/quote]

Talking about romance and revolution, I love the song.

Very inspiring for a political rally…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdZCLEsoDQ

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]

The “system” is breaking down

More evidence;)

A revolutionary resonance is circling the globe[/quote]

Talking about romance and revolution, I love the song.

Very inspiring for a political rally…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdZCLEsoDQ

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]

The “system” is breaking down

More evidence;)

A revolutionary resonance is circling the globe[/quote]

Talking about romance and revolution, I love the song.

Very inspiring for a political rally…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdZCLEsoDQ

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]

The “system” is breaking down

More evidence;)

A revolutionary resonance is circling the globe[/quote]

Talking about romance and revolution, I love the song.

Very inspiring for a political rally…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjdZCLEsoDQ

[Author]

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