plunging birthrate

[CA renter]

[quote=walterwhite]still, with some thought, you can plan out good routes in lots of places.

Am i dumb to think there could be an economy with less stuff that is just better made?

Like with bikes–we have people spending 5k for a bike made of plastic (they call it carbon) that is theoretically very stong, as strong as steel, unless it gets a nick in it, in which case it can catastrophically fail and collaps (unlike steel). The bikes are imo crap, and are relegated to the trash heap fairly quickly. once the mold is made for them, they are made super cheap in taiwan, so builders love them.

crap, crap crap….landfill. expensive garbage with lots of marketing behind it.

whereas a steel bike can be yours forfreakingever…i guess it’s better to sell someone 10 $5,000 bikes than one $7,000 bike….i don’t know. is the future really just more and more production and consumption?

i often look and admired my carradice bike saddlebag. It’s a bikebag made by hand in england for like a century…it’s beautiful hard wearing, made of leather with metal buckles and thick canvas and a wooden dowel, lasts one person literally a lifetime, perfect function, gorgeous style, just amazing. I paid around $70 in 1999, now I think they’re 140 or so now…mine is just getting broken in. This bag is beloved by me, thisbag has improved the last 10 years of my life, this bag is a pleasure to own, this bag was truly deeply worth the money I paid for it. I admire this bag and the people who make it, i use it constantly.

v. crappy nylon bags with zippers that break and that rot in the sun and that are garbage shortly….

what if the future were about focussig on better shit instead of more shit?[/quote]

Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years.

Short-term thinking — encouraged by our marketing machine that convinces everyone that newer versions are “cooler” and “better” — has blinded people to the fact that this cheap crap is MORE expensive over time, creates many times more pollution on the manufacturing and distribution side, and then more pollution again on the end-of-cycle side when it’s thrown away or recycled (which also takes energy and causes pollution of its own).

The game is all about increasing consumption and increasing corporate profit margins…all at the expense of the environment, consumers, and working people in the USA.

[scaredyclassic]

superlight bikes do NOT let you pedal faster in any sort of appreciable way with less effort. you’re a victim of marketing. i despise carbon bikes; they call cyclists liek me “retrogrouches”; not sure if that term is used in other areas… i am an extreme retrogrouch in cycling matters.

think about the weight differential between a super lightweight bike at 17 lbs and a “heavy” steel bike at 23 lbs.

the weight that matters is the entire weight with you your water bottles and your stuff on the bike. the difference bewteen a superlightweight piece of trash (your weight plus bike plus goods) and an old school beautiful steel bike (your weight plus bike plus goods) is probably the difference between two water bottles. the total weight of a me on a heavy bike with my bag is 145 plus 23 plus 10 = 178 lbs. the total weight of me on a superlight racer is 145 plus 17 plus 10 = 172… a 6 lb 3.5% difference makes no dfference on the flats, and a teeny difference on the hills.

Believe me, i am not going faster if I empty my water bottles (a few lbs of weight) in any kind of way that matters. in terms of racing, we are talking seconds over long arduous hills.

it’s all BULLSHIT except for paid racers for who tiny differences do actually matter…

add a few more pounds and what do you get?

durability. safety. with no real impact on speed, other than a potential
“placebo” impact some pople get from riding what lance rides…

also you can pick one up in a store with one hand and go, “woah, she’s light”.

but we don’t use a bike in that way. it rolls on the ground with us on it, we don’t do curls with it. the way it feels when you pick it up doesn’t matter for 99.9% of all applications…except maybe carrying it up the stairs in a place without an elevator. and even then the 6 lbs doesnt really matter that much.

[scaredyclassic]

superlight bikes do NOT let you pedal faster in any sort of appreciable way with less effort. you’re a victim of marketing. i despise carbon bikes; they call cyclists liek me “retrogrouches”; not sure if that term is used in other areas… i am an extreme retrogrouch in cycling matters.

think about the weight differential between a super lightweight bike at 17 lbs and a “heavy” steel bike at 23 lbs.

the weight that matters is the entire weight with you your water bottles and your stuff on the bike. the difference bewteen a superlightweight piece of trash (your weight plus bike plus goods) and an old school beautiful steel bike (your weight plus bike plus goods) is probably the difference between two water bottles. the total weight of a me on a heavy bike with my bag is 145 plus 23 plus 10 = 178 lbs. the total weight of me on a superlight racer is 145 plus 17 plus 10 = 172… a 6 lb 3.5% difference makes no dfference on the flats, and a teeny difference on the hills.

Believe me, i am not going faster if I empty my water bottles (a few lbs of weight) in any kind of way that matters. in terms of racing, we are talking seconds over long arduous hills.

it’s all BULLSHIT except for paid racers for who tiny differences do actually matter…

add a few more pounds and what do you get?

durability. safety. with no real impact on speed, other than a potential
“placebo” impact some pople get from riding what lance rides…

also you can pick one up in a store with one hand and go, “woah, she’s light”.

but we don’t use a bike in that way. it rolls on the ground with us on it, we don’t do curls with it. the way it feels when you pick it up doesn’t matter for 99.9% of all applications…except maybe carrying it up the stairs in a place without an elevator. and even then the 6 lbs doesnt really matter that much.

[scaredyclassic]

superlight bikes do NOT let you pedal faster in any sort of appreciable way with less effort. you’re a victim of marketing. i despise carbon bikes; they call cyclists liek me “retrogrouches”; not sure if that term is used in other areas… i am an extreme retrogrouch in cycling matters.

think about the weight differential between a super lightweight bike at 17 lbs and a “heavy” steel bike at 23 lbs.

the weight that matters is the entire weight with you your water bottles and your stuff on the bike. the difference bewteen a superlightweight piece of trash (your weight plus bike plus goods) and an old school beautiful steel bike (your weight plus bike plus goods) is probably the difference between two water bottles. the total weight of a me on a heavy bike with my bag is 145 plus 23 plus 10 = 178 lbs. the total weight of me on a superlight racer is 145 plus 17 plus 10 = 172… a 6 lb 3.5% difference makes no dfference on the flats, and a teeny difference on the hills.

Believe me, i am not going faster if I empty my water bottles (a few lbs of weight) in any kind of way that matters. in terms of racing, we are talking seconds over long arduous hills.

it’s all BULLSHIT except for paid racers for who tiny differences do actually matter…

add a few more pounds and what do you get?

durability. safety. with no real impact on speed, other than a potential
“placebo” impact some pople get from riding what lance rides…

also you can pick one up in a store with one hand and go, “woah, she’s light”.

but we don’t use a bike in that way. it rolls on the ground with us on it, we don’t do curls with it. the way it feels when you pick it up doesn’t matter for 99.9% of all applications…except maybe carrying it up the stairs in a place without an elevator. and even then the 6 lbs doesnt really matter that much.

[scaredyclassic]

superlight bikes do NOT let you pedal faster in any sort of appreciable way with less effort. you’re a victim of marketing. i despise carbon bikes; they call cyclists liek me “retrogrouches”; not sure if that term is used in other areas… i am an extreme retrogrouch in cycling matters.

think about the weight differential between a super lightweight bike at 17 lbs and a “heavy” steel bike at 23 lbs.

the weight that matters is the entire weight with you your water bottles and your stuff on the bike. the difference bewteen a superlightweight piece of trash (your weight plus bike plus goods) and an old school beautiful steel bike (your weight plus bike plus goods) is probably the difference between two water bottles. the total weight of a me on a heavy bike with my bag is 145 plus 23 plus 10 = 178 lbs. the total weight of me on a superlight racer is 145 plus 17 plus 10 = 172… a 6 lb 3.5% difference makes no dfference on the flats, and a teeny difference on the hills.

Believe me, i am not going faster if I empty my water bottles (a few lbs of weight) in any kind of way that matters. in terms of racing, we are talking seconds over long arduous hills.

it’s all BULLSHIT except for paid racers for who tiny differences do actually matter…

add a few more pounds and what do you get?

durability. safety. with no real impact on speed, other than a potential
“placebo” impact some pople get from riding what lance rides…

also you can pick one up in a store with one hand and go, “woah, she’s light”.

but we don’t use a bike in that way. it rolls on the ground with us on it, we don’t do curls with it. the way it feels when you pick it up doesn’t matter for 99.9% of all applications…except maybe carrying it up the stairs in a place without an elevator. and even then the 6 lbs doesnt really matter that much.

[scaredyclassic]

superlight bikes do NOT let you pedal faster in any sort of appreciable way with less effort. you’re a victim of marketing. i despise carbon bikes; they call cyclists liek me “retrogrouches”; not sure if that term is used in other areas… i am an extreme retrogrouch in cycling matters.

think about the weight differential between a super lightweight bike at 17 lbs and a “heavy” steel bike at 23 lbs.

the weight that matters is the entire weight with you your water bottles and your stuff on the bike. the difference bewteen a superlightweight piece of trash (your weight plus bike plus goods) and an old school beautiful steel bike (your weight plus bike plus goods) is probably the difference between two water bottles. the total weight of a me on a heavy bike with my bag is 145 plus 23 plus 10 = 178 lbs. the total weight of me on a superlight racer is 145 plus 17 plus 10 = 172… a 6 lb 3.5% difference makes no dfference on the flats, and a teeny difference on the hills.

Believe me, i am not going faster if I empty my water bottles (a few lbs of weight) in any kind of way that matters. in terms of racing, we are talking seconds over long arduous hills.

it’s all BULLSHIT except for paid racers for who tiny differences do actually matter…

add a few more pounds and what do you get?

durability. safety. with no real impact on speed, other than a potential
“placebo” impact some pople get from riding what lance rides…

also you can pick one up in a store with one hand and go, “woah, she’s light”.

but we don’t use a bike in that way. it rolls on the ground with us on it, we don’t do curls with it. the way it feels when you pick it up doesn’t matter for 99.9% of all applications…except maybe carrying it up the stairs in a place without an elevator. and even then the 6 lbs doesnt really matter that much.

[Fletch]

Nice discussion to read as I settle in from my 21 mile commute on my 1986 steel-framed touring bike. (No leather bags, but I do have a sprung Brooks saddle, thank you.) My bike weighs 40-odd pounds with my work stuff in the panniers, but I’m rarely passed. After buying the frame (bent but fixable) on E-bay, and investing in some Phil Wood wheels,I’ve commuted almost 7000 miles in the past 4 years. It’s bullet-proof. My “racing” bike is a 1981 steel-framed Colnago I’ve had for 25 years.

So I’m not accused of a complete threadjack, I’ll point out that my wife and I have enough kids to get looks in public. Diapers through high school. They’re great. It’s fun.

[Fletch]

Nice discussion to read as I settle in from my 21 mile commute on my 1986 steel-framed touring bike. (No leather bags, but I do have a sprung Brooks saddle, thank you.) My bike weighs 40-odd pounds with my work stuff in the panniers, but I’m rarely passed. After buying the frame (bent but fixable) on E-bay, and investing in some Phil Wood wheels,I’ve commuted almost 7000 miles in the past 4 years. It’s bullet-proof. My “racing” bike is a 1981 steel-framed Colnago I’ve had for 25 years.

So I’m not accused of a complete threadjack, I’ll point out that my wife and I have enough kids to get looks in public. Diapers through high school. They’re great. It’s fun.

[Fletch]

Nice discussion to read as I settle in from my 21 mile commute on my 1986 steel-framed touring bike. (No leather bags, but I do have a sprung Brooks saddle, thank you.) My bike weighs 40-odd pounds with my work stuff in the panniers, but I’m rarely passed. After buying the frame (bent but fixable) on E-bay, and investing in some Phil Wood wheels,I’ve commuted almost 7000 miles in the past 4 years. It’s bullet-proof. My “racing” bike is a 1981 steel-framed Colnago I’ve had for 25 years.

So I’m not accused of a complete threadjack, I’ll point out that my wife and I have enough kids to get looks in public. Diapers through high school. They’re great. It’s fun.

[Fletch]

Nice discussion to read as I settle in from my 21 mile commute on my 1986 steel-framed touring bike. (No leather bags, but I do have a sprung Brooks saddle, thank you.) My bike weighs 40-odd pounds with my work stuff in the panniers, but I’m rarely passed. After buying the frame (bent but fixable) on E-bay, and investing in some Phil Wood wheels,I’ve commuted almost 7000 miles in the past 4 years. It’s bullet-proof. My “racing” bike is a 1981 steel-framed Colnago I’ve had for 25 years.

So I’m not accused of a complete threadjack, I’ll point out that my wife and I have enough kids to get looks in public. Diapers through high school. They’re great. It’s fun.

[Fletch]

Nice discussion to read as I settle in from my 21 mile commute on my 1986 steel-framed touring bike. (No leather bags, but I do have a sprung Brooks saddle, thank you.) My bike weighs 40-odd pounds with my work stuff in the panniers, but I’m rarely passed. After buying the frame (bent but fixable) on E-bay, and investing in some Phil Wood wheels,I’ve commuted almost 7000 miles in the past 4 years. It’s bullet-proof. My “racing” bike is a 1981 steel-framed Colnago I’ve had for 25 years.

So I’m not accused of a complete threadjack, I’ll point out that my wife and I have enough kids to get looks in public. Diapers through high school. They’re great. It’s fun.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.

[Author]

Posts