PIIGS R’ us?

[Arraya]

“Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a real paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors; sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness.”

[CA renter]

[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=CA renter]
They are “our” jobs because the multinationals want to sell to us — we are still the most profitable market to them. We’re not talking about jobs that require math skills, but traditional manufacturing jobs. We used to make our own goods right here in the USA, and they were better and longer-lasting than the cheap, plastic, toxic crap that we now get from China.

The only reason OUR jobs have gone overseas is because labor is dirt cheap (and no pesky worker protections there, either) and environmental protections are almost non-existent. Let’s not fool ourselves here — the jobs have been going overseas in order to increase corporate margins. Americans are NOT getting any benefits from this “globalization,” so there is no need for us to continue with this failed experiment.

If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us. No more games with debt masking our shrinking standard of living and reduced purchasing power. It’s really that simple.[/quote]

‘If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Hogwash. We haven’t voted with our wallets; we were FORCED to accept this crap from other countries. We don’t have a choice in most cases, as manufacturers have chosen to move their operations overseas *because their costs are lower there.* Even if Americans are willing to pay more for American-made products, local manufacturers still have a difficult time competing with companies that manufacture overseas because of the non-existent labor and environmental standards (and CHEAP labor, not “better qualified” labor) over there.

I want to buy a new washing machine, and cannot find one made in the USA, even though I’m willing to pay 2-3X what a foreign-made one costs.

By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.

[CA renter]

[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=CA renter]
They are “our” jobs because the multinationals want to sell to us — we are still the most profitable market to them. We’re not talking about jobs that require math skills, but traditional manufacturing jobs. We used to make our own goods right here in the USA, and they were better and longer-lasting than the cheap, plastic, toxic crap that we now get from China.

The only reason OUR jobs have gone overseas is because labor is dirt cheap (and no pesky worker protections there, either) and environmental protections are almost non-existent. Let’s not fool ourselves here — the jobs have been going overseas in order to increase corporate margins. Americans are NOT getting any benefits from this “globalization,” so there is no need for us to continue with this failed experiment.

If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us. No more games with debt masking our shrinking standard of living and reduced purchasing power. It’s really that simple.[/quote]

‘If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Hogwash. We haven’t voted with our wallets; we were FORCED to accept this crap from other countries. We don’t have a choice in most cases, as manufacturers have chosen to move their operations overseas *because their costs are lower there.* Even if Americans are willing to pay more for American-made products, local manufacturers still have a difficult time competing with companies that manufacture overseas because of the non-existent labor and environmental standards (and CHEAP labor, not “better qualified” labor) over there.

I want to buy a new washing machine, and cannot find one made in the USA, even though I’m willing to pay 2-3X what a foreign-made one costs.

By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.

[CA renter]

[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=CA renter]
They are “our” jobs because the multinationals want to sell to us — we are still the most profitable market to them. We’re not talking about jobs that require math skills, but traditional manufacturing jobs. We used to make our own goods right here in the USA, and they were better and longer-lasting than the cheap, plastic, toxic crap that we now get from China.

The only reason OUR jobs have gone overseas is because labor is dirt cheap (and no pesky worker protections there, either) and environmental protections are almost non-existent. Let’s not fool ourselves here — the jobs have been going overseas in order to increase corporate margins. Americans are NOT getting any benefits from this “globalization,” so there is no need for us to continue with this failed experiment.

If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us. No more games with debt masking our shrinking standard of living and reduced purchasing power. It’s really that simple.[/quote]

‘If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Hogwash. We haven’t voted with our wallets; we were FORCED to accept this crap from other countries. We don’t have a choice in most cases, as manufacturers have chosen to move their operations overseas *because their costs are lower there.* Even if Americans are willing to pay more for American-made products, local manufacturers still have a difficult time competing with companies that manufacture overseas because of the non-existent labor and environmental standards (and CHEAP labor, not “better qualified” labor) over there.

I want to buy a new washing machine, and cannot find one made in the USA, even though I’m willing to pay 2-3X what a foreign-made one costs.

By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.

[CA renter]

[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=CA renter]
They are “our” jobs because the multinationals want to sell to us — we are still the most profitable market to them. We’re not talking about jobs that require math skills, but traditional manufacturing jobs. We used to make our own goods right here in the USA, and they were better and longer-lasting than the cheap, plastic, toxic crap that we now get from China.

The only reason OUR jobs have gone overseas is because labor is dirt cheap (and no pesky worker protections there, either) and environmental protections are almost non-existent. Let’s not fool ourselves here — the jobs have been going overseas in order to increase corporate margins. Americans are NOT getting any benefits from this “globalization,” so there is no need for us to continue with this failed experiment.

If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us. No more games with debt masking our shrinking standard of living and reduced purchasing power. It’s really that simple.[/quote]

‘If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Hogwash. We haven’t voted with our wallets; we were FORCED to accept this crap from other countries. We don’t have a choice in most cases, as manufacturers have chosen to move their operations overseas *because their costs are lower there.* Even if Americans are willing to pay more for American-made products, local manufacturers still have a difficult time competing with companies that manufacture overseas because of the non-existent labor and environmental standards (and CHEAP labor, not “better qualified” labor) over there.

I want to buy a new washing machine, and cannot find one made in the USA, even though I’m willing to pay 2-3X what a foreign-made one costs.

By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.

[CA renter]

[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=CA renter]
They are “our” jobs because the multinationals want to sell to us — we are still the most profitable market to them. We’re not talking about jobs that require math skills, but traditional manufacturing jobs. We used to make our own goods right here in the USA, and they were better and longer-lasting than the cheap, plastic, toxic crap that we now get from China.

The only reason OUR jobs have gone overseas is because labor is dirt cheap (and no pesky worker protections there, either) and environmental protections are almost non-existent. Let’s not fool ourselves here — the jobs have been going overseas in order to increase corporate margins. Americans are NOT getting any benefits from this “globalization,” so there is no need for us to continue with this failed experiment.

If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us. No more games with debt masking our shrinking standard of living and reduced purchasing power. It’s really that simple.[/quote]

‘If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Hogwash. We haven’t voted with our wallets; we were FORCED to accept this crap from other countries. We don’t have a choice in most cases, as manufacturers have chosen to move their operations overseas *because their costs are lower there.* Even if Americans are willing to pay more for American-made products, local manufacturers still have a difficult time competing with companies that manufacture overseas because of the non-existent labor and environmental standards (and CHEAP labor, not “better qualified” labor) over there.

I want to buy a new washing machine, and cannot find one made in the USA, even though I’m willing to pay 2-3X what a foreign-made one costs.

By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Cannot say I disagree with you Mike.

However I am not so sure that a few of our unions will take that stance… run that by the UAW or the teachers unions and lemme know what they think.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but I’ll bet most union workers would be more than happy to go back to 1995 (pick a year) wages IF prices for everything were to return to those levels as well. The truth is our purchasing power has taken a tremendous hit over the past few decades. Though we might be making more today, nominally; we are worse off than our counterparts have been since WWII with respect to purchasing power, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Cannot say I disagree with you Mike.

However I am not so sure that a few of our unions will take that stance… run that by the UAW or the teachers unions and lemme know what they think.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but I’ll bet most union workers would be more than happy to go back to 1995 (pick a year) wages IF prices for everything were to return to those levels as well. The truth is our purchasing power has taken a tremendous hit over the past few decades. Though we might be making more today, nominally; we are worse off than our counterparts have been since WWII with respect to purchasing power, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Cannot say I disagree with you Mike.

However I am not so sure that a few of our unions will take that stance… run that by the UAW or the teachers unions and lemme know what they think.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but I’ll bet most union workers would be more than happy to go back to 1995 (pick a year) wages IF prices for everything were to return to those levels as well. The truth is our purchasing power has taken a tremendous hit over the past few decades. Though we might be making more today, nominally; we are worse off than our counterparts have been since WWII with respect to purchasing power, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Cannot say I disagree with you Mike.

However I am not so sure that a few of our unions will take that stance… run that by the UAW or the teachers unions and lemme know what they think.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but I’ll bet most union workers would be more than happy to go back to 1995 (pick a year) wages IF prices for everything were to return to those levels as well. The truth is our purchasing power has taken a tremendous hit over the past few decades. Though we might be making more today, nominally; we are worse off than our counterparts have been since WWII with respect to purchasing power, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Cannot say I disagree with you Mike.

However I am not so sure that a few of our unions will take that stance… run that by the UAW or the teachers unions and lemme know what they think.[/quote]

Call me crazy, but I’ll bet most union workers would be more than happy to go back to 1995 (pick a year) wages IF prices for everything were to return to those levels as well. The truth is our purchasing power has taken a tremendous hit over the past few decades. Though we might be making more today, nominally; we are worse off than our counterparts have been since WWII with respect to purchasing power, IMHO.

[jpinpb]

[quote=carlsbadworker]If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Ok. The American consumer would like for things to not be as expensive, generally. But not entirely. There would be times in my past where I admit I bought some expensive shoes made in Italy. Now if I want a “similar” shoe, but just as expensive, designer name, it is made in China. The point is that there isn’t even that option or choice to purchase something of better quality, even if it costs more.

And while folks (by that I mean corporations getting the public to believe it) are trying to blame it on unions, the unions fought for workers to have decent working conditions. Wasn’t it China the country that had children working in factories under extreme conditions. I mean, come on. Do we need to lower our standards in our factories or do other countries need to be humane? How do we compete w/slave wages? Should we? Or should we ban their crap being brought here? Because by buying it, we are condoning it and accepting it and at the same time, eliminating jobs here.

So once again, I agree w/CAR. It was forced on us, leaving us few choices.

[quote=CA renter]
By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.[/quote]

X2

And also agree w/returning to wages years ago if our purchasing power would also return to that level.

Come on. There must be others who think this way. Can’t just be CAR and I. (OMG – are we the only ones?)

[jpinpb]

[quote=carlsbadworker]If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Ok. The American consumer would like for things to not be as expensive, generally. But not entirely. There would be times in my past where I admit I bought some expensive shoes made in Italy. Now if I want a “similar” shoe, but just as expensive, designer name, it is made in China. The point is that there isn’t even that option or choice to purchase something of better quality, even if it costs more.

And while folks (by that I mean corporations getting the public to believe it) are trying to blame it on unions, the unions fought for workers to have decent working conditions. Wasn’t it China the country that had children working in factories under extreme conditions. I mean, come on. Do we need to lower our standards in our factories or do other countries need to be humane? How do we compete w/slave wages? Should we? Or should we ban their crap being brought here? Because by buying it, we are condoning it and accepting it and at the same time, eliminating jobs here.

So once again, I agree w/CAR. It was forced on us, leaving us few choices.

[quote=CA renter]
By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.[/quote]

X2

And also agree w/returning to wages years ago if our purchasing power would also return to that level.

Come on. There must be others who think this way. Can’t just be CAR and I. (OMG – are we the only ones?)

[jpinpb]

[quote=carlsbadworker]If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Ok. The American consumer would like for things to not be as expensive, generally. But not entirely. There would be times in my past where I admit I bought some expensive shoes made in Italy. Now if I want a “similar” shoe, but just as expensive, designer name, it is made in China. The point is that there isn’t even that option or choice to purchase something of better quality, even if it costs more.

And while folks (by that I mean corporations getting the public to believe it) are trying to blame it on unions, the unions fought for workers to have decent working conditions. Wasn’t it China the country that had children working in factories under extreme conditions. I mean, come on. Do we need to lower our standards in our factories or do other countries need to be humane? How do we compete w/slave wages? Should we? Or should we ban their crap being brought here? Because by buying it, we are condoning it and accepting it and at the same time, eliminating jobs here.

So once again, I agree w/CAR. It was forced on us, leaving us few choices.

[quote=CA renter]
By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.[/quote]

X2

And also agree w/returning to wages years ago if our purchasing power would also return to that level.

Come on. There must be others who think this way. Can’t just be CAR and I. (OMG – are we the only ones?)

[jpinpb]

[quote=carlsbadworker]If they want to sell to us, then they need to employ us.” Who is us? American consumers have voted with their wallets on how they want the corporate America to conduct the business.

Yes, dirt cheap labor with no worker protection. But that’s exactly the reason they are entitled to these jobs, because workers there are tolerating such “abuses” in order to create a brighter future for themselves. If you think people who have that kind of spirit are less entitled to the jobs comparing to a bunch of whining American, and condemn these people to be jobless instead, I have nothing else to argue about with you.[/quote]

Ok. The American consumer would like for things to not be as expensive, generally. But not entirely. There would be times in my past where I admit I bought some expensive shoes made in Italy. Now if I want a “similar” shoe, but just as expensive, designer name, it is made in China. The point is that there isn’t even that option or choice to purchase something of better quality, even if it costs more.

And while folks (by that I mean corporations getting the public to believe it) are trying to blame it on unions, the unions fought for workers to have decent working conditions. Wasn’t it China the country that had children working in factories under extreme conditions. I mean, come on. Do we need to lower our standards in our factories or do other countries need to be humane? How do we compete w/slave wages? Should we? Or should we ban their crap being brought here? Because by buying it, we are condoning it and accepting it and at the same time, eliminating jobs here.

So once again, I agree w/CAR. It was forced on us, leaving us few choices.

[quote=CA renter]
By all means, people in developing nations should be free to improve their lot in life, but it should not be on the backs of American workers.[/quote]

X2

And also agree w/returning to wages years ago if our purchasing power would also return to that level.

Come on. There must be others who think this way. Can’t just be CAR and I. (OMG – are we the only ones?)

[Author]

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