PIIGS R’ us?

[jpinpb]

[quote=temeculaguy]Here’s why history and anectdotes don’t matter. We work, hell we work too much. We have the longest workweeks, the shortest vacations, the longest working lives. Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. [/quote]

Will not argue that.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones. [/quote]

Enlighten me, please on the new industry we have come up with — other than the fail safe housing that we abused grossly this last cycle.

[quote=sdrealtor]You are full of it TG – I say while drinking a Cab from Oakville in a GoVino Glass Made in the USA. We make nothing;)[/quote]

When did you buy that glass and where b/c I’m having a hard time finding wine glasses made here. About ready to check antique shops.

[quote=carlsbadworker] We have so many choices available to us to improve our lots, that the rest of the world could only dream about. [/quote]

Except fewer choices when it comes to buying American.

[Arraya]

[quote=temeculaguy]
It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.[/quote]

Actually, the data is pretty clear. Manufacturing jobs left due to outsourcing and some due to technological unemployment(automation). *Some* were replaced with service sector and FIRE economy jobs coupled with a tripling in per-capita household debt(to further supplement consumer spending and hence service sector jobs – the debt overload has been gangbusters for the FIRE economy as well). Though, the underclass has risen tremendously. Actually, for 5 years those on federal food stamps has risen by about 350,000 per month, every month. So, it’s really accelerated over the last decade. This process of sending mfg jobs oversees and not having anything to sop them up with is still going on. You could probably make a good case that the upper .1% in the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese then the average American

[quote=temeculaguy]
The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries
[/quote]

GDP has become more and more decoupled from social health. Unless you count the epidemic of mentally and physically sick people to bolster the healthcare industry and thus GDP as good, as just one example.

[quote=temeculaguy]
China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.
[/quote]

Not sure what way out in front means. But, yes, on a resource per-capita basis we blow the world away. Though, I’m not sure if that is a good metric of success. Actually, it is a physical impossibility of ChinIndia reaching our per-capita levels without another planet or collapsing the west’s resource use. So, it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are[/quote]

Taking the current mental and physical illness epidemic trajectories coupled with the growing underclass and extrapolating them out probably is not “who we want to be”. Just saying.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.
[/quote]

One of the most recent “boom” industries, over the past decade, was security-industrial complex. Pretty much policing the population, in every way imaginable. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. [/quote]

Grinding abject poverty of sub-saharan Africans that live on a buck a day, they are not. Though, they are probably better off then 40-50% of the planet not 95%. Then it is still relative in many ways.

[Arraya]

[quote=temeculaguy]
It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.[/quote]

Actually, the data is pretty clear. Manufacturing jobs left due to outsourcing and some due to technological unemployment(automation). *Some* were replaced with service sector and FIRE economy jobs coupled with a tripling in per-capita household debt(to further supplement consumer spending and hence service sector jobs – the debt overload has been gangbusters for the FIRE economy as well). Though, the underclass has risen tremendously. Actually, for 5 years those on federal food stamps has risen by about 350,000 per month, every month. So, it’s really accelerated over the last decade. This process of sending mfg jobs oversees and not having anything to sop them up with is still going on. You could probably make a good case that the upper .1% in the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese then the average American

[quote=temeculaguy]
The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries
[/quote]

GDP has become more and more decoupled from social health. Unless you count the epidemic of mentally and physically sick people to bolster the healthcare industry and thus GDP as good, as just one example.

[quote=temeculaguy]
China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.
[/quote]

Not sure what way out in front means. But, yes, on a resource per-capita basis we blow the world away. Though, I’m not sure if that is a good metric of success. Actually, it is a physical impossibility of ChinIndia reaching our per-capita levels without another planet or collapsing the west’s resource use. So, it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are[/quote]

Taking the current mental and physical illness epidemic trajectories coupled with the growing underclass and extrapolating them out probably is not “who we want to be”. Just saying.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.
[/quote]

One of the most recent “boom” industries, over the past decade, was security-industrial complex. Pretty much policing the population, in every way imaginable. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. [/quote]

Grinding abject poverty of sub-saharan Africans that live on a buck a day, they are not. Though, they are probably better off then 40-50% of the planet not 95%. Then it is still relative in many ways.

[Arraya]

[quote=temeculaguy]
It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.[/quote]

Actually, the data is pretty clear. Manufacturing jobs left due to outsourcing and some due to technological unemployment(automation). *Some* were replaced with service sector and FIRE economy jobs coupled with a tripling in per-capita household debt(to further supplement consumer spending and hence service sector jobs – the debt overload has been gangbusters for the FIRE economy as well). Though, the underclass has risen tremendously. Actually, for 5 years those on federal food stamps has risen by about 350,000 per month, every month. So, it’s really accelerated over the last decade. This process of sending mfg jobs oversees and not having anything to sop them up with is still going on. You could probably make a good case that the upper .1% in the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese then the average American

[quote=temeculaguy]
The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries
[/quote]

GDP has become more and more decoupled from social health. Unless you count the epidemic of mentally and physically sick people to bolster the healthcare industry and thus GDP as good, as just one example.

[quote=temeculaguy]
China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.
[/quote]

Not sure what way out in front means. But, yes, on a resource per-capita basis we blow the world away. Though, I’m not sure if that is a good metric of success. Actually, it is a physical impossibility of ChinIndia reaching our per-capita levels without another planet or collapsing the west’s resource use. So, it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are[/quote]

Taking the current mental and physical illness epidemic trajectories coupled with the growing underclass and extrapolating them out probably is not “who we want to be”. Just saying.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.
[/quote]

One of the most recent “boom” industries, over the past decade, was security-industrial complex. Pretty much policing the population, in every way imaginable. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. [/quote]

Grinding abject poverty of sub-saharan Africans that live on a buck a day, they are not. Though, they are probably better off then 40-50% of the planet not 95%. Then it is still relative in many ways.

[Arraya]

[quote=temeculaguy]
It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.[/quote]

Actually, the data is pretty clear. Manufacturing jobs left due to outsourcing and some due to technological unemployment(automation). *Some* were replaced with service sector and FIRE economy jobs coupled with a tripling in per-capita household debt(to further supplement consumer spending and hence service sector jobs – the debt overload has been gangbusters for the FIRE economy as well). Though, the underclass has risen tremendously. Actually, for 5 years those on federal food stamps has risen by about 350,000 per month, every month. So, it’s really accelerated over the last decade. This process of sending mfg jobs oversees and not having anything to sop them up with is still going on. You could probably make a good case that the upper .1% in the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese then the average American

[quote=temeculaguy]
The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries
[/quote]

GDP has become more and more decoupled from social health. Unless you count the epidemic of mentally and physically sick people to bolster the healthcare industry and thus GDP as good, as just one example.

[quote=temeculaguy]
China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.
[/quote]

Not sure what way out in front means. But, yes, on a resource per-capita basis we blow the world away. Though, I’m not sure if that is a good metric of success. Actually, it is a physical impossibility of ChinIndia reaching our per-capita levels without another planet or collapsing the west’s resource use. So, it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are[/quote]

Taking the current mental and physical illness epidemic trajectories coupled with the growing underclass and extrapolating them out probably is not “who we want to be”. Just saying.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.
[/quote]

One of the most recent “boom” industries, over the past decade, was security-industrial complex. Pretty much policing the population, in every way imaginable. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. [/quote]

Grinding abject poverty of sub-saharan Africans that live on a buck a day, they are not. Though, they are probably better off then 40-50% of the planet not 95%. Then it is still relative in many ways.

[Arraya]

[quote=temeculaguy]
It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.[/quote]

Actually, the data is pretty clear. Manufacturing jobs left due to outsourcing and some due to technological unemployment(automation). *Some* were replaced with service sector and FIRE economy jobs coupled with a tripling in per-capita household debt(to further supplement consumer spending and hence service sector jobs – the debt overload has been gangbusters for the FIRE economy as well). Though, the underclass has risen tremendously. Actually, for 5 years those on federal food stamps has risen by about 350,000 per month, every month. So, it’s really accelerated over the last decade. This process of sending mfg jobs oversees and not having anything to sop them up with is still going on. You could probably make a good case that the upper .1% in the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese then the average American

[quote=temeculaguy]
The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries
[/quote]

GDP has become more and more decoupled from social health. Unless you count the epidemic of mentally and physically sick people to bolster the healthcare industry and thus GDP as good, as just one example.

[quote=temeculaguy]
China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.
[/quote]

Not sure what way out in front means. But, yes, on a resource per-capita basis we blow the world away. Though, I’m not sure if that is a good metric of success. Actually, it is a physical impossibility of ChinIndia reaching our per-capita levels without another planet or collapsing the west’s resource use. So, it should be interesting to see where this goes.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are[/quote]

Taking the current mental and physical illness epidemic trajectories coupled with the growing underclass and extrapolating them out probably is not “who we want to be”. Just saying.

[quote=temeculaguy]
We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.
[/quote]

One of the most recent “boom” industries, over the past decade, was security-industrial complex. Pretty much policing the population, in every way imaginable. I can’t wait to see what they come up with next.

[quote=temeculaguy]
Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. [/quote]

Grinding abject poverty of sub-saharan Africans that live on a buck a day, they are not. Though, they are probably better off then 40-50% of the planet not 95%. Then it is still relative in many ways.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – well said. You’re my hero.[/quote]

X2

Bravo, eavesdropper![/quote]

Thank you, ladies. It was my pleasure.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – well said. You’re my hero.[/quote]

X2

Bravo, eavesdropper![/quote]

Thank you, ladies. It was my pleasure.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – well said. You’re my hero.[/quote]

X2

Bravo, eavesdropper![/quote]

Thank you, ladies. It was my pleasure.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – well said. You’re my hero.[/quote]

X2

Bravo, eavesdropper![/quote]

Thank you, ladies. It was my pleasure.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – well said. You’re my hero.[/quote]

X2

Bravo, eavesdropper![/quote]

Thank you, ladies. It was my pleasure.

[outtamojo]

[quote=CA renter][quote=temeculaguy]Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, how much do you look at the fundamentals of world economies?

It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.

Look at the chart, ignore the eurozone listing because they don’t give it a ranking because they break out the various countries as well.

We essentially make 3x what china does, not per person, but as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries

China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.

Here’s why history and anectdotes don’t matter. We work, hell we work too much. We have the longest workweeks, the shortest vacations, the longest working lives. Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are, but ending up like Spain or some other former superpower, sorry, not going to happen. We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.

And I don’t care where my macbook was fabricated, the money for the most part, stays here. Oil, Schmoil, we will invent a new fuel source and then license it to other countries to make it and ship it back to us, thats what we do, we screw everybody else and reap the fruits of their labor, we aren’t getting rich on the backs of americans, we live well because of places like china and we dont take naps and enjoy life like europeans, that’s why we wont end up like them. Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. I’m all out of tears and I’m more worried about the NBA lockout than I am about us losing our place in the world economy.

Calm down, it’s going to be just fine.[/quote]

If we make stuff here, we certainly aren’t selling it here. I would love to buy American-made appliances — specifically, at the moment, a washing machine. Where can I get one of those?[/quote]

I digress but if we wanna buy something American made and pay a little more than it is worth because it is made in America and also keep it out of hands of non-citizens, then how about buying a house, it would really support American manufacturing and construction, banks and realtors : )

[outtamojo]

[quote=CA renter][quote=temeculaguy]Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, how much do you look at the fundamentals of world economies?

It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.

Look at the chart, ignore the eurozone listing because they don’t give it a ranking because they break out the various countries as well.

We essentially make 3x what china does, not per person, but as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries

China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.

Here’s why history and anectdotes don’t matter. We work, hell we work too much. We have the longest workweeks, the shortest vacations, the longest working lives. Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are, but ending up like Spain or some other former superpower, sorry, not going to happen. We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.

And I don’t care where my macbook was fabricated, the money for the most part, stays here. Oil, Schmoil, we will invent a new fuel source and then license it to other countries to make it and ship it back to us, thats what we do, we screw everybody else and reap the fruits of their labor, we aren’t getting rich on the backs of americans, we live well because of places like china and we dont take naps and enjoy life like europeans, that’s why we wont end up like them. Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. I’m all out of tears and I’m more worried about the NBA lockout than I am about us losing our place in the world economy.

Calm down, it’s going to be just fine.[/quote]

If we make stuff here, we certainly aren’t selling it here. I would love to buy American-made appliances — specifically, at the moment, a washing machine. Where can I get one of those?[/quote]

I digress but if we wanna buy something American made and pay a little more than it is worth because it is made in America and also keep it out of hands of non-citizens, then how about buying a house, it would really support American manufacturing and construction, banks and realtors : )

[outtamojo]

[quote=CA renter][quote=temeculaguy]Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, how much do you look at the fundamentals of world economies?

It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.

Look at the chart, ignore the eurozone listing because they don’t give it a ranking because they break out the various countries as well.

We essentially make 3x what china does, not per person, but as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries

China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.

Here’s why history and anectdotes don’t matter. We work, hell we work too much. We have the longest workweeks, the shortest vacations, the longest working lives. Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are, but ending up like Spain or some other former superpower, sorry, not going to happen. We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.

And I don’t care where my macbook was fabricated, the money for the most part, stays here. Oil, Schmoil, we will invent a new fuel source and then license it to other countries to make it and ship it back to us, thats what we do, we screw everybody else and reap the fruits of their labor, we aren’t getting rich on the backs of americans, we live well because of places like china and we dont take naps and enjoy life like europeans, that’s why we wont end up like them. Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. I’m all out of tears and I’m more worried about the NBA lockout than I am about us losing our place in the world economy.

Calm down, it’s going to be just fine.[/quote]

If we make stuff here, we certainly aren’t selling it here. I would love to buy American-made appliances — specifically, at the moment, a washing machine. Where can I get one of those?[/quote]

I digress but if we wanna buy something American made and pay a little more than it is worth because it is made in America and also keep it out of hands of non-citizens, then how about buying a house, it would really support American manufacturing and construction, banks and realtors : )

[outtamojo]

[quote=CA renter][quote=temeculaguy]Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, how much do you look at the fundamentals of world economies?

It may seem that we don’t make anything because of the lables you see on some products, but China has a lot more people than we do, in fact the 300 million or so residents we have isn’t anywhere near where we should be relative to our GDP.

Look at the chart, ignore the eurozone listing because they don’t give it a ranking because they break out the various countries as well.

We essentially make 3x what china does, not per person, but as a whole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

The United States is 1/4 of the world economy we have about 300 million people in a world of nearly 7 billion. Does that sound like last place to you? We are first by a mile, our per capita gdp is ahead of all the big countries

China and India combine for 37% of the world population and about 9% of the world economy. The US accounts for 25% of the world economy with about 4% of the population. We can argue gnp,gdp,exports,labor, blah blah blah. But it comes down to the fact that we are still way out in front and if you want to be honest with yourself, we have all that we need, even now, in our darkest days, we have too much food.

Here’s why history and anectdotes don’t matter. We work, hell we work too much. We have the longest workweeks, the shortest vacations, the longest working lives. Sure we end up with shorter lifespans, more heart attacks, high divorce and substance abuse rates. Those are the side effects of who we are, but ending up like Spain or some other former superpower, sorry, not going to happen. We will have bad years, we may lose some ground and some industries, but we keep coming up with new ones.

And I don’t care where my macbook was fabricated, the money for the most part, stays here. Oil, Schmoil, we will invent a new fuel source and then license it to other countries to make it and ship it back to us, thats what we do, we screw everybody else and reap the fruits of their labor, we aren’t getting rich on the backs of americans, we live well because of places like china and we dont take naps and enjoy life like europeans, that’s why we wont end up like them. Please, an American on welfare lives better than 95% of the planet. I’m all out of tears and I’m more worried about the NBA lockout than I am about us losing our place in the world economy.

Calm down, it’s going to be just fine.[/quote]

If we make stuff here, we certainly aren’t selling it here. I would love to buy American-made appliances — specifically, at the moment, a washing machine. Where can I get one of those?[/quote]

I digress but if we wanna buy something American made and pay a little more than it is worth because it is made in America and also keep it out of hands of non-citizens, then how about buying a house, it would really support American manufacturing and construction, banks and realtors : )

[Author]

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