PIIGS R’ us?

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya] Well, I think there is a difference between being despotic and having government stabilization and interventions of markets. And nationalized critical industries. Every government in the world intervenes in markets, otherwise they trend towards disequilibrium and run into problems. This does not make one communist. Nor do protectionist measures or nationalization.
=[/quote]

That’s exactly it. We need to support industries that make sense for us.

No need to make shoes and other consumables in America.

Our problem is that while we were pushing financial innovations, and while we were distracted with wars and terrorism, China has moved upmarket. They are now making cars, trains, planes, computers and everything else.

I guess we still have education and pharma. the problem with pharma is that we need to create sick people to consume the drugs. And if they are not sick, they need to think that they are sick.

[Arraya]

China actually does well with state direction of alternative energy. They have some of the biggest solar installations on the planet. They also have cool trains

[Arraya]

China actually does well with state direction of alternative energy. They have some of the biggest solar installations on the planet. They also have cool trains

[Arraya]

China actually does well with state direction of alternative energy. They have some of the biggest solar installations on the planet. They also have cool trains

[Arraya]

China actually does well with state direction of alternative energy. They have some of the biggest solar installations on the planet. They also have cool trains

[Arraya]

China actually does well with state direction of alternative energy. They have some of the biggest solar installations on the planet. They also have cool trains

[jpinpb]

[quote=gandalf]China is a communist country. It’s not free market capitalism. …..If the tables were turned, and labor costs were cheaper outside China, everyone on this board knows full well the Chinese government would outright prohibit Chinese companies from exporting jobs (and money) from China. There would be tariffs and nationalization of plants, contracts and resources. People would be jailed or disappear. China isn’t a free market.
[/quote]

Thank you for stating this. The first I’ve seen on this site (though I admit I don’t always of the luxury of reading every thread)

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[quote=CA renter]Of course, I think we need to support American labor over foreign labor because we need to be self-sufficient and productive in our own country. Without American labor, our country will collapse (unless one thinks we can all get rich flipping houses/stocks/bonds/commodities/etc. to one another at ever-increasing prices).[/quote]

And thank you, again. Today it is auto jobs. Tomorrow it is yours. You hit the nail on the head. We will have speculative jobs. In the end we will have the small percentage of upper class , no middle class and the rest are the poor. I guess supported by the tax of the rich. But since they will be in charge, I’m sure there will be no social programs when they get done, so it will be a country of destitute. Maybe we’ll all try to flee to China for “opportunity.”

I’m sure our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

[quote=briansd1]I guess we still have education and pharma. [/quote]

You mean the education that is expensive and they are cutting or the research, for example, stem cell, that we are behind in?

[jpinpb]

[quote=gandalf]China is a communist country. It’s not free market capitalism. …..If the tables were turned, and labor costs were cheaper outside China, everyone on this board knows full well the Chinese government would outright prohibit Chinese companies from exporting jobs (and money) from China. There would be tariffs and nationalization of plants, contracts and resources. People would be jailed or disappear. China isn’t a free market.
[/quote]

Thank you for stating this. The first I’ve seen on this site (though I admit I don’t always of the luxury of reading every thread)

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[quote=CA renter]Of course, I think we need to support American labor over foreign labor because we need to be self-sufficient and productive in our own country. Without American labor, our country will collapse (unless one thinks we can all get rich flipping houses/stocks/bonds/commodities/etc. to one another at ever-increasing prices).[/quote]

And thank you, again. Today it is auto jobs. Tomorrow it is yours. You hit the nail on the head. We will have speculative jobs. In the end we will have the small percentage of upper class , no middle class and the rest are the poor. I guess supported by the tax of the rich. But since they will be in charge, I’m sure there will be no social programs when they get done, so it will be a country of destitute. Maybe we’ll all try to flee to China for “opportunity.”

I’m sure our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

[quote=briansd1]I guess we still have education and pharma. [/quote]

You mean the education that is expensive and they are cutting or the research, for example, stem cell, that we are behind in?

[jpinpb]

[quote=gandalf]China is a communist country. It’s not free market capitalism. …..If the tables were turned, and labor costs were cheaper outside China, everyone on this board knows full well the Chinese government would outright prohibit Chinese companies from exporting jobs (and money) from China. There would be tariffs and nationalization of plants, contracts and resources. People would be jailed or disappear. China isn’t a free market.
[/quote]

Thank you for stating this. The first I’ve seen on this site (though I admit I don’t always of the luxury of reading every thread)

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[quote=CA renter]Of course, I think we need to support American labor over foreign labor because we need to be self-sufficient and productive in our own country. Without American labor, our country will collapse (unless one thinks we can all get rich flipping houses/stocks/bonds/commodities/etc. to one another at ever-increasing prices).[/quote]

And thank you, again. Today it is auto jobs. Tomorrow it is yours. You hit the nail on the head. We will have speculative jobs. In the end we will have the small percentage of upper class , no middle class and the rest are the poor. I guess supported by the tax of the rich. But since they will be in charge, I’m sure there will be no social programs when they get done, so it will be a country of destitute. Maybe we’ll all try to flee to China for “opportunity.”

I’m sure our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

[quote=briansd1]I guess we still have education and pharma. [/quote]

You mean the education that is expensive and they are cutting or the research, for example, stem cell, that we are behind in?

[jpinpb]

[quote=gandalf]China is a communist country. It’s not free market capitalism. …..If the tables were turned, and labor costs were cheaper outside China, everyone on this board knows full well the Chinese government would outright prohibit Chinese companies from exporting jobs (and money) from China. There would be tariffs and nationalization of plants, contracts and resources. People would be jailed or disappear. China isn’t a free market.
[/quote]

Thank you for stating this. The first I’ve seen on this site (though I admit I don’t always of the luxury of reading every thread)

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[quote=CA renter]Of course, I think we need to support American labor over foreign labor because we need to be self-sufficient and productive in our own country. Without American labor, our country will collapse (unless one thinks we can all get rich flipping houses/stocks/bonds/commodities/etc. to one another at ever-increasing prices).[/quote]

And thank you, again. Today it is auto jobs. Tomorrow it is yours. You hit the nail on the head. We will have speculative jobs. In the end we will have the small percentage of upper class , no middle class and the rest are the poor. I guess supported by the tax of the rich. But since they will be in charge, I’m sure there will be no social programs when they get done, so it will be a country of destitute. Maybe we’ll all try to flee to China for “opportunity.”

I’m sure our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

[quote=briansd1]I guess we still have education and pharma. [/quote]

You mean the education that is expensive and they are cutting or the research, for example, stem cell, that we are behind in?

[jpinpb]

[quote=gandalf]China is a communist country. It’s not free market capitalism. …..If the tables were turned, and labor costs were cheaper outside China, everyone on this board knows full well the Chinese government would outright prohibit Chinese companies from exporting jobs (and money) from China. There would be tariffs and nationalization of plants, contracts and resources. People would be jailed or disappear. China isn’t a free market.
[/quote]

Thank you for stating this. The first I’ve seen on this site (though I admit I don’t always of the luxury of reading every thread)

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[quote=CA renter]Of course, I think we need to support American labor over foreign labor because we need to be self-sufficient and productive in our own country. Without American labor, our country will collapse (unless one thinks we can all get rich flipping houses/stocks/bonds/commodities/etc. to one another at ever-increasing prices).[/quote]

And thank you, again. Today it is auto jobs. Tomorrow it is yours. You hit the nail on the head. We will have speculative jobs. In the end we will have the small percentage of upper class , no middle class and the rest are the poor. I guess supported by the tax of the rich. But since they will be in charge, I’m sure there will be no social programs when they get done, so it will be a country of destitute. Maybe we’ll all try to flee to China for “opportunity.”

I’m sure our forefathers are rolling over in their graves.

[quote=briansd1]I guess we still have education and pharma. [/quote]

You mean the education that is expensive and they are cutting or the research, for example, stem cell, that we are behind in?

[Arraya]

[quote=jpinpb]

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[/quote]

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Doing business with brutal regimes is not something we are shy about. They only become “evil” if they somehow inhibit or threaten capital accumulation of the upper echelons. If they aid in capital accumulation, it’s not a problem. That is the litmus test, not any professed ideology. There is a systemic contradiction today, where the upper .1% of the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese than the average american. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[Arraya]

[quote=jpinpb]

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[/quote]

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Doing business with brutal regimes is not something we are shy about. They only become “evil” if they somehow inhibit or threaten capital accumulation of the upper echelons. If they aid in capital accumulation, it’s not a problem. That is the litmus test, not any professed ideology. There is a systemic contradiction today, where the upper .1% of the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese than the average american. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[Arraya]

[quote=jpinpb]

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[/quote]

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Doing business with brutal regimes is not something we are shy about. They only become “evil” if they somehow inhibit or threaten capital accumulation of the upper echelons. If they aid in capital accumulation, it’s not a problem. That is the litmus test, not any professed ideology. There is a systemic contradiction today, where the upper .1% of the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese than the average american. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[Arraya]

[quote=jpinpb]

Why are we doing business w/a communist country? We don’t w/Cuba. I don’t think we did w/Russia back in the day. Why is it okay w/China? What am I missing here?

[/quote]

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Doing business with brutal regimes is not something we are shy about. They only become “evil” if they somehow inhibit or threaten capital accumulation of the upper echelons. If they aid in capital accumulation, it’s not a problem. That is the litmus test, not any professed ideology. There is a systemic contradiction today, where the upper .1% of the US interests are more aligned with the average Chinese than the average american. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

[Author]

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