OT: why I’m voting for Obama

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sdgrrl]Zeitgeist, what the hell are you babbling about? Sure you don’t like Obama and his numbers have gone down amongst registered Independents, but what have you got in your corner? Really I want to know. Palin? Limbaugh? Cantor? Bachmann? Romney? Even Paul is unelectable as much as Kucinich.

If you think your party looks any more esteemed or has garnered more respect with their recent behavior you are so wrong it’s laughable. I’m laughing now.

Beck/Limbaugh 2012.[/quote]

Sdgrrl: Speaking as a conservative (not a Republican; as I’ve said before, I haven’t voted GOP since Dole in 1996), I am watching a fast forward self destruction of the truly liberal wing of the Democratic Party.

Forgetting Obama’s plummeting poll numbers for a second, focus instead on his sudden inability to successfully articulate any sort of coherent policy approach on any one of a number of issues.

Healthcare and Afghanistan are the two largest ones, in my mind. On healthcare, Obama squandered a golden opportunity to lay out his case to the American people and “make the sale”. Instead, we’re treated to a circus side show by the Administration, culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.

On Afghanistan, pay particular attention because this war will be Obama’s Vietnam. There is no clear cut mission and this war is being waged in a country which has ejected countless foreigners before, going back to Alexander the Great. We are expending ever more blood and treasure in this swamp of a country and the very people (liberal and left wing Democrats) who condemned Bush’s “War of Choice” are now engaging in the self-same conduct in this “War of Necessity”. Iraq, however, was actually somewhat functioning as a viable country, versus Afghanistan, which ranks perilously close to Somalia in various rankings regarding lawlessness, violence, corruption and lack of any sort of cultural or societal underpinnings.

Yes, the GOP has become a tired joke and a broken brand. The Dems, who were handed a glittering opportunity and control of all three branches of government, have managed to very nearly put it into the ditch and do so in about 200 days. Bravo!

[surveyor]

To all Barack Obama supporters and voters:

Hope is not a foreign policy.

Hope is not an economic policy.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was incompetent.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was an empty suit.

Unfortunately we have been proven correct.

There are a lot of life-long Democrats who have already figured this out.

No matter how badly Republicans do, these facts remain unchanged or unmitigated.

We told you so we told you so we told you so.

And I say this with no joy or malice in me. Just the facts.

[surveyor]

To all Barack Obama supporters and voters:

Hope is not a foreign policy.

Hope is not an economic policy.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was incompetent.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was an empty suit.

Unfortunately we have been proven correct.

There are a lot of life-long Democrats who have already figured this out.

No matter how badly Republicans do, these facts remain unchanged or unmitigated.

We told you so we told you so we told you so.

And I say this with no joy or malice in me. Just the facts.

[surveyor]

To all Barack Obama supporters and voters:

Hope is not a foreign policy.

Hope is not an economic policy.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was incompetent.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was an empty suit.

Unfortunately we have been proven correct.

There are a lot of life-long Democrats who have already figured this out.

No matter how badly Republicans do, these facts remain unchanged or unmitigated.

We told you so we told you so we told you so.

And I say this with no joy or malice in me. Just the facts.

[surveyor]

To all Barack Obama supporters and voters:

Hope is not a foreign policy.

Hope is not an economic policy.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was incompetent.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was an empty suit.

Unfortunately we have been proven correct.

There are a lot of life-long Democrats who have already figured this out.

No matter how badly Republicans do, these facts remain unchanged or unmitigated.

We told you so we told you so we told you so.

And I say this with no joy or malice in me. Just the facts.

[surveyor]

To all Barack Obama supporters and voters:

Hope is not a foreign policy.

Hope is not an economic policy.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was incompetent.

There were many of us here who told you Obama was an empty suit.

Unfortunately we have been proven correct.

There are a lot of life-long Democrats who have already figured this out.

No matter how badly Republicans do, these facts remain unchanged or unmitigated.

We told you so we told you so we told you so.

And I say this with no joy or malice in me. Just the facts.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.

[afx114]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.[/quote]

Afx: I completely agree with you. On another post, I pointed out that there was definitely an element that was showing up and being intentionally disruptive at various Town Hall meetings and that is wrong.

Further, I would also say that I vehemently disagree with “Obama = Hitler” signs and for the same reason that I vehemently disagreed with the “Bush = Hitler” signs: Whether or not you support the President, he is the President and you respect the office. I think this sort of demagoguery, regardless from the Left or Right, is wrong and is tearing at the fabric of civil society.

My dad had a great expression: “I may disagree with everything you say, but I will die for your right to say it”.

One of the reasons I find Pelosi so reprehensible as both a person and an elected official is the utter hypocrisy, combined with her complete and total disconnection from the very people that elected her. During the BushCo years, she was the first to encourage people to dissent and protest and was totally silent when people were viciously attacking the President and his policies. Now, suddenly, it’s become “un-American” to speak out and those that don’t agree with the current Administration and it’s policies are now hooligans and tools of the Right.

Yes, I’m sure there are instances where some of these protesters are paid to be there and be disruptive, but we’re also seeing an ever growing legion of average Americans that are justifiably worried and not just about healthcare, but about a government sprawling out of control and spending trillions of dollars on what appears to be an ever larger series of boondoggles.

I would bet money that you, as a liberal, are looking at the same situation that I, as a conservative, am and are just as horrified and appalled. And that gives me hope, both for our country and it’s future, because it means that Americans are still engaged and can still be enraged. I don’t foresee a violent revolution, like some here do, but I do see a revolution brewing.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.[/quote]

Afx: I completely agree with you. On another post, I pointed out that there was definitely an element that was showing up and being intentionally disruptive at various Town Hall meetings and that is wrong.

Further, I would also say that I vehemently disagree with “Obama = Hitler” signs and for the same reason that I vehemently disagreed with the “Bush = Hitler” signs: Whether or not you support the President, he is the President and you respect the office. I think this sort of demagoguery, regardless from the Left or Right, is wrong and is tearing at the fabric of civil society.

My dad had a great expression: “I may disagree with everything you say, but I will die for your right to say it”.

One of the reasons I find Pelosi so reprehensible as both a person and an elected official is the utter hypocrisy, combined with her complete and total disconnection from the very people that elected her. During the BushCo years, she was the first to encourage people to dissent and protest and was totally silent when people were viciously attacking the President and his policies. Now, suddenly, it’s become “un-American” to speak out and those that don’t agree with the current Administration and it’s policies are now hooligans and tools of the Right.

Yes, I’m sure there are instances where some of these protesters are paid to be there and be disruptive, but we’re also seeing an ever growing legion of average Americans that are justifiably worried and not just about healthcare, but about a government sprawling out of control and spending trillions of dollars on what appears to be an ever larger series of boondoggles.

I would bet money that you, as a liberal, are looking at the same situation that I, as a conservative, am and are just as horrified and appalled. And that gives me hope, both for our country and it’s future, because it means that Americans are still engaged and can still be enraged. I don’t foresee a violent revolution, like some here do, but I do see a revolution brewing.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.[/quote]

Afx: I completely agree with you. On another post, I pointed out that there was definitely an element that was showing up and being intentionally disruptive at various Town Hall meetings and that is wrong.

Further, I would also say that I vehemently disagree with “Obama = Hitler” signs and for the same reason that I vehemently disagreed with the “Bush = Hitler” signs: Whether or not you support the President, he is the President and you respect the office. I think this sort of demagoguery, regardless from the Left or Right, is wrong and is tearing at the fabric of civil society.

My dad had a great expression: “I may disagree with everything you say, but I will die for your right to say it”.

One of the reasons I find Pelosi so reprehensible as both a person and an elected official is the utter hypocrisy, combined with her complete and total disconnection from the very people that elected her. During the BushCo years, she was the first to encourage people to dissent and protest and was totally silent when people were viciously attacking the President and his policies. Now, suddenly, it’s become “un-American” to speak out and those that don’t agree with the current Administration and it’s policies are now hooligans and tools of the Right.

Yes, I’m sure there are instances where some of these protesters are paid to be there and be disruptive, but we’re also seeing an ever growing legion of average Americans that are justifiably worried and not just about healthcare, but about a government sprawling out of control and spending trillions of dollars on what appears to be an ever larger series of boondoggles.

I would bet money that you, as a liberal, are looking at the same situation that I, as a conservative, am and are just as horrified and appalled. And that gives me hope, both for our country and it’s future, because it means that Americans are still engaged and can still be enraged. I don’t foresee a violent revolution, like some here do, but I do see a revolution brewing.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=afx114][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]culminating with the thoroughly vile Pelosi accusing average citizens of being “un-American” for engaging in the most basic right (1st Amendment) of all: Assembling and speaking out about an issue that gravely concerns them.[/quote]

Allan, would you agree that taking away someone’s right to free speech un-American?

Were the people that Pelosi was referring to exercising their right to free speech or were they preventing others from exercising theirs?

I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I don’t necessarily agree with what she said, but there is an important distinction here. Furthermore, I fully support “Obama = Hitler” signs and questions about death panels. But there’s quite a difference between “speaking out about an issue” and disrupting civil discourse for the sake of disruption. What about the poor old lady who wanted to ask how she will be able to afford her meds but couldn’t ask because she was shouted down by some loonies? What about her 1st Amendment right?

But overall I agree with you that the Dems are being a bunch of tools at the moment.[/quote]

Afx: I completely agree with you. On another post, I pointed out that there was definitely an element that was showing up and being intentionally disruptive at various Town Hall meetings and that is wrong.

Further, I would also say that I vehemently disagree with “Obama = Hitler” signs and for the same reason that I vehemently disagreed with the “Bush = Hitler” signs: Whether or not you support the President, he is the President and you respect the office. I think this sort of demagoguery, regardless from the Left or Right, is wrong and is tearing at the fabric of civil society.

My dad had a great expression: “I may disagree with everything you say, but I will die for your right to say it”.

One of the reasons I find Pelosi so reprehensible as both a person and an elected official is the utter hypocrisy, combined with her complete and total disconnection from the very people that elected her. During the BushCo years, she was the first to encourage people to dissent and protest and was totally silent when people were viciously attacking the President and his policies. Now, suddenly, it’s become “un-American” to speak out and those that don’t agree with the current Administration and it’s policies are now hooligans and tools of the Right.

Yes, I’m sure there are instances where some of these protesters are paid to be there and be disruptive, but we’re also seeing an ever growing legion of average Americans that are justifiably worried and not just about healthcare, but about a government sprawling out of control and spending trillions of dollars on what appears to be an ever larger series of boondoggles.

I would bet money that you, as a liberal, are looking at the same situation that I, as a conservative, am and are just as horrified and appalled. And that gives me hope, both for our country and it’s future, because it means that Americans are still engaged and can still be enraged. I don’t foresee a violent revolution, like some here do, but I do see a revolution brewing.

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