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September 1, 2009 at 8:57 PM #452450September 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM #451667
sdgrrl
ParticipantAllan,
I appreciate your tone and thoughtful response. I can understand how people could disagree with Obama. I can see how Obama is everything they ever had a nightmare about in regards to elected leaders. I do wish more people would argue like you about policy and not about conspiracy theories.
No one though has ever answered my questions ever about who is a viable contender for the office of the POTUS in 2012 on the Repub ticket.
Sadly, if the Repubs had never given voice to the wingnut Repubs and their talk about religion, creationism and obstruction of science they never would have alienated people like you and I probably. I want a religious home and a secular government.
It wasn’t just Bush. I know Repubs are sick of hearing about Bush, but it was also the Repub party who were the most fiscally liberal group of people. They are responsible for so much of what is going on and yes those in office are still having to clean it up and no six months is not long enough to do it.
Was the bailout the right thing to do? I don’t know and I’ve said that before, but what would have happened without it? If you were in charge what would you have done? Honestly, would you have sat back and watched the markets correct themselves in a noble Rand ideology ? Watched AIG go under and just dealt with the consequences? Would McCain have just sat back and watched it to? Probably not. He would have tried to appease his party and then saw exactly what was going on and how bad it really was.
The bailout is working, definitely not as fast as the fickle populace would like it, but at least we are seeing money being paid back:
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/Obama sold his health care policy when he was elected with a huge electoral mandate. There is no point trying to sell it to that portion of the population who will never be swayed; because they will never be swayed.
He has been weak with it in actually creating a bill and getting it to congress, because he thought for a moment that it could be bipartisan in any way. The Republicans are obstructionist in regards to health care and hopefully the Dems have realized that the Repubs will never help them and just move forward without them.
He has created the circus and a sideshow? Not the protesters who yell Heil Hitler to a Jewish man talking about Israel’s health care or the woman screaming I want my country back from the illegal Muslim Kenyan?
Pelosi is vile? How about Gov Perry of Texas superficially calling for my home state to secede from the Union. I watched the news today and people were picketing in Austin for Perry to now make good on his threats. Over and over I heard these folks saying they hate the USA. Why? Because they have a president they don’t like; a man who will be out of office as an absolute guarantee in 7 years? Where was this anger two years ago when a dry drunk idiot running this country in to a ditch?
You’re right the Dems aren’t doing the greatest, but I have noticed some things:
My religious views aren’t front and center and i don’t have a bunch of evangelical wing nuts arrogantly smiling as they go in to the White House.
No Jack Abramoff scandal; it could always change.
No terrorist threat color grids going crazy on my television.
A President who doesn’t want to alienate Muslims and look in to leaders souls; I know I bring that up often, but it never fails to astonish me.
Not as many religious wingnuts decrying homosexuality and then getting caught hitting on young congressional pages, not as many bathroom altercations or ministers having meth fueled gay sex. Why? Because they don’t have as strong of a voice since they are not whispering in the Presidents ear and we are not watching so closely what they are doing.
Of course the Dems will lose favor and be voted out. It absolutely will happen eventually and it should, because then it would be a permanent one party rule. I still cannot forget the absolute arrogance of the Repubs when they held all the cards in their hands. It was sickening and such a corrupt environment that I ran to the other side. Are the Dems angels? Absolutely not, but the culture under Delay, Cheney and Hastert..dear Lord disgusting.
What should be done with Afghanistan? I’m not sure. I know that the Taliban is still there and that there was extreme voter intimidation to the point women had there fingers cut off. Should we allow the Taliban to infiltrate again and practice their idea of Sharia? Should we give up a footing in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its prime position so close to Iran? I don’t know?
I don’t know if this should be called Obama’s Vietnam…I really don’t know.September 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM #451861ParticipantAllan,
I appreciate your tone and thoughtful response. I can understand how people could disagree with Obama. I can see how Obama is everything they ever had a nightmare about in regards to elected leaders. I do wish more people would argue like you about policy and not about conspiracy theories.
No one though has ever answered my questions ever about who is a viable contender for the office of the POTUS in 2012 on the Repub ticket.
Sadly, if the Repubs had never given voice to the wingnut Repubs and their talk about religion, creationism and obstruction of science they never would have alienated people like you and I probably. I want a religious home and a secular government.
It wasn’t just Bush. I know Repubs are sick of hearing about Bush, but it was also the Repub party who were the most fiscally liberal group of people. They are responsible for so much of what is going on and yes those in office are still having to clean it up and no six months is not long enough to do it.
Was the bailout the right thing to do? I don’t know and I’ve said that before, but what would have happened without it? If you were in charge what would you have done? Honestly, would you have sat back and watched the markets correct themselves in a noble Rand ideology ? Watched AIG go under and just dealt with the consequences? Would McCain have just sat back and watched it to? Probably not. He would have tried to appease his party and then saw exactly what was going on and how bad it really was.
The bailout is working, definitely not as fast as the fickle populace would like it, but at least we are seeing money being paid back:
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/Obama sold his health care policy when he was elected with a huge electoral mandate. There is no point trying to sell it to that portion of the population who will never be swayed; because they will never be swayed.
He has been weak with it in actually creating a bill and getting it to congress, because he thought for a moment that it could be bipartisan in any way. The Republicans are obstructionist in regards to health care and hopefully the Dems have realized that the Repubs will never help them and just move forward without them.
He has created the circus and a sideshow? Not the protesters who yell Heil Hitler to a Jewish man talking about Israel’s health care or the woman screaming I want my country back from the illegal Muslim Kenyan?
Pelosi is vile? How about Gov Perry of Texas superficially calling for my home state to secede from the Union. I watched the news today and people were picketing in Austin for Perry to now make good on his threats. Over and over I heard these folks saying they hate the USA. Why? Because they have a president they don’t like; a man who will be out of office as an absolute guarantee in 7 years? Where was this anger two years ago when a dry drunk idiot running this country in to a ditch?
You’re right the Dems aren’t doing the greatest, but I have noticed some things:
My religious views aren’t front and center and i don’t have a bunch of evangelical wing nuts arrogantly smiling as they go in to the White House.
No Jack Abramoff scandal; it could always change.
No terrorist threat color grids going crazy on my television.
A President who doesn’t want to alienate Muslims and look in to leaders souls; I know I bring that up often, but it never fails to astonish me.
Not as many religious wingnuts decrying homosexuality and then getting caught hitting on young congressional pages, not as many bathroom altercations or ministers having meth fueled gay sex. Why? Because they don’t have as strong of a voice since they are not whispering in the Presidents ear and we are not watching so closely what they are doing.
Of course the Dems will lose favor and be voted out. It absolutely will happen eventually and it should, because then it would be a permanent one party rule. I still cannot forget the absolute arrogance of the Repubs when they held all the cards in their hands. It was sickening and such a corrupt environment that I ran to the other side. Are the Dems angels? Absolutely not, but the culture under Delay, Cheney and Hastert..dear Lord disgusting.
What should be done with Afghanistan? I’m not sure. I know that the Taliban is still there and that there was extreme voter intimidation to the point women had there fingers cut off. Should we allow the Taliban to infiltrate again and practice their idea of Sharia? Should we give up a footing in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its prime position so close to Iran? I don’t know?
I don’t know if this should be called Obama’s Vietnam…I really don’t know.September 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM #452202ParticipantAllan,
I appreciate your tone and thoughtful response. I can understand how people could disagree with Obama. I can see how Obama is everything they ever had a nightmare about in regards to elected leaders. I do wish more people would argue like you about policy and not about conspiracy theories.
No one though has ever answered my questions ever about who is a viable contender for the office of the POTUS in 2012 on the Repub ticket.
Sadly, if the Repubs had never given voice to the wingnut Repubs and their talk about religion, creationism and obstruction of science they never would have alienated people like you and I probably. I want a religious home and a secular government.
It wasn’t just Bush. I know Repubs are sick of hearing about Bush, but it was also the Repub party who were the most fiscally liberal group of people. They are responsible for so much of what is going on and yes those in office are still having to clean it up and no six months is not long enough to do it.
Was the bailout the right thing to do? I don’t know and I’ve said that before, but what would have happened without it? If you were in charge what would you have done? Honestly, would you have sat back and watched the markets correct themselves in a noble Rand ideology ? Watched AIG go under and just dealt with the consequences? Would McCain have just sat back and watched it to? Probably not. He would have tried to appease his party and then saw exactly what was going on and how bad it really was.
The bailout is working, definitely not as fast as the fickle populace would like it, but at least we are seeing money being paid back:
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/Obama sold his health care policy when he was elected with a huge electoral mandate. There is no point trying to sell it to that portion of the population who will never be swayed; because they will never be swayed.
He has been weak with it in actually creating a bill and getting it to congress, because he thought for a moment that it could be bipartisan in any way. The Republicans are obstructionist in regards to health care and hopefully the Dems have realized that the Repubs will never help them and just move forward without them.
He has created the circus and a sideshow? Not the protesters who yell Heil Hitler to a Jewish man talking about Israel’s health care or the woman screaming I want my country back from the illegal Muslim Kenyan?
Pelosi is vile? How about Gov Perry of Texas superficially calling for my home state to secede from the Union. I watched the news today and people were picketing in Austin for Perry to now make good on his threats. Over and over I heard these folks saying they hate the USA. Why? Because they have a president they don’t like; a man who will be out of office as an absolute guarantee in 7 years? Where was this anger two years ago when a dry drunk idiot running this country in to a ditch?
You’re right the Dems aren’t doing the greatest, but I have noticed some things:
My religious views aren’t front and center and i don’t have a bunch of evangelical wing nuts arrogantly smiling as they go in to the White House.
No Jack Abramoff scandal; it could always change.
No terrorist threat color grids going crazy on my television.
A President who doesn’t want to alienate Muslims and look in to leaders souls; I know I bring that up often, but it never fails to astonish me.
Not as many religious wingnuts decrying homosexuality and then getting caught hitting on young congressional pages, not as many bathroom altercations or ministers having meth fueled gay sex. Why? Because they don’t have as strong of a voice since they are not whispering in the Presidents ear and we are not watching so closely what they are doing.
Of course the Dems will lose favor and be voted out. It absolutely will happen eventually and it should, because then it would be a permanent one party rule. I still cannot forget the absolute arrogance of the Repubs when they held all the cards in their hands. It was sickening and such a corrupt environment that I ran to the other side. Are the Dems angels? Absolutely not, but the culture under Delay, Cheney and Hastert..dear Lord disgusting.
What should be done with Afghanistan? I’m not sure. I know that the Taliban is still there and that there was extreme voter intimidation to the point women had there fingers cut off. Should we allow the Taliban to infiltrate again and practice their idea of Sharia? Should we give up a footing in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its prime position so close to Iran? I don’t know?
I don’t know if this should be called Obama’s Vietnam…I really don’t know.September 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM #452274ParticipantAllan,
I appreciate your tone and thoughtful response. I can understand how people could disagree with Obama. I can see how Obama is everything they ever had a nightmare about in regards to elected leaders. I do wish more people would argue like you about policy and not about conspiracy theories.
No one though has ever answered my questions ever about who is a viable contender for the office of the POTUS in 2012 on the Repub ticket.
Sadly, if the Repubs had never given voice to the wingnut Repubs and their talk about religion, creationism and obstruction of science they never would have alienated people like you and I probably. I want a religious home and a secular government.
It wasn’t just Bush. I know Repubs are sick of hearing about Bush, but it was also the Repub party who were the most fiscally liberal group of people. They are responsible for so much of what is going on and yes those in office are still having to clean it up and no six months is not long enough to do it.
Was the bailout the right thing to do? I don’t know and I’ve said that before, but what would have happened without it? If you were in charge what would you have done? Honestly, would you have sat back and watched the markets correct themselves in a noble Rand ideology ? Watched AIG go under and just dealt with the consequences? Would McCain have just sat back and watched it to? Probably not. He would have tried to appease his party and then saw exactly what was going on and how bad it really was.
The bailout is working, definitely not as fast as the fickle populace would like it, but at least we are seeing money being paid back:
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/Obama sold his health care policy when he was elected with a huge electoral mandate. There is no point trying to sell it to that portion of the population who will never be swayed; because they will never be swayed.
He has been weak with it in actually creating a bill and getting it to congress, because he thought for a moment that it could be bipartisan in any way. The Republicans are obstructionist in regards to health care and hopefully the Dems have realized that the Repubs will never help them and just move forward without them.
He has created the circus and a sideshow? Not the protesters who yell Heil Hitler to a Jewish man talking about Israel’s health care or the woman screaming I want my country back from the illegal Muslim Kenyan?
Pelosi is vile? How about Gov Perry of Texas superficially calling for my home state to secede from the Union. I watched the news today and people were picketing in Austin for Perry to now make good on his threats. Over and over I heard these folks saying they hate the USA. Why? Because they have a president they don’t like; a man who will be out of office as an absolute guarantee in 7 years? Where was this anger two years ago when a dry drunk idiot running this country in to a ditch?
You’re right the Dems aren’t doing the greatest, but I have noticed some things:
My religious views aren’t front and center and i don’t have a bunch of evangelical wing nuts arrogantly smiling as they go in to the White House.
No Jack Abramoff scandal; it could always change.
No terrorist threat color grids going crazy on my television.
A President who doesn’t want to alienate Muslims and look in to leaders souls; I know I bring that up often, but it never fails to astonish me.
Not as many religious wingnuts decrying homosexuality and then getting caught hitting on young congressional pages, not as many bathroom altercations or ministers having meth fueled gay sex. Why? Because they don’t have as strong of a voice since they are not whispering in the Presidents ear and we are not watching so closely what they are doing.
Of course the Dems will lose favor and be voted out. It absolutely will happen eventually and it should, because then it would be a permanent one party rule. I still cannot forget the absolute arrogance of the Repubs when they held all the cards in their hands. It was sickening and such a corrupt environment that I ran to the other side. Are the Dems angels? Absolutely not, but the culture under Delay, Cheney and Hastert..dear Lord disgusting.
What should be done with Afghanistan? I’m not sure. I know that the Taliban is still there and that there was extreme voter intimidation to the point women had there fingers cut off. Should we allow the Taliban to infiltrate again and practice their idea of Sharia? Should we give up a footing in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its prime position so close to Iran? I don’t know?
I don’t know if this should be called Obama’s Vietnam…I really don’t know.September 1, 2009 at 9:14 PM #452465ParticipantAllan,
I appreciate your tone and thoughtful response. I can understand how people could disagree with Obama. I can see how Obama is everything they ever had a nightmare about in regards to elected leaders. I do wish more people would argue like you about policy and not about conspiracy theories.
No one though has ever answered my questions ever about who is a viable contender for the office of the POTUS in 2012 on the Repub ticket.
Sadly, if the Repubs had never given voice to the wingnut Repubs and their talk about religion, creationism and obstruction of science they never would have alienated people like you and I probably. I want a religious home and a secular government.
It wasn’t just Bush. I know Repubs are sick of hearing about Bush, but it was also the Repub party who were the most fiscally liberal group of people. They are responsible for so much of what is going on and yes those in office are still having to clean it up and no six months is not long enough to do it.
Was the bailout the right thing to do? I don’t know and I’ve said that before, but what would have happened without it? If you were in charge what would you have done? Honestly, would you have sat back and watched the markets correct themselves in a noble Rand ideology ? Watched AIG go under and just dealt with the consequences? Would McCain have just sat back and watched it to? Probably not. He would have tried to appease his party and then saw exactly what was going on and how bad it really was.
The bailout is working, definitely not as fast as the fickle populace would like it, but at least we are seeing money being paid back:
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/Obama sold his health care policy when he was elected with a huge electoral mandate. There is no point trying to sell it to that portion of the population who will never be swayed; because they will never be swayed.
He has been weak with it in actually creating a bill and getting it to congress, because he thought for a moment that it could be bipartisan in any way. The Republicans are obstructionist in regards to health care and hopefully the Dems have realized that the Repubs will never help them and just move forward without them.
He has created the circus and a sideshow? Not the protesters who yell Heil Hitler to a Jewish man talking about Israel’s health care or the woman screaming I want my country back from the illegal Muslim Kenyan?
Pelosi is vile? How about Gov Perry of Texas superficially calling for my home state to secede from the Union. I watched the news today and people were picketing in Austin for Perry to now make good on his threats. Over and over I heard these folks saying they hate the USA. Why? Because they have a president they don’t like; a man who will be out of office as an absolute guarantee in 7 years? Where was this anger two years ago when a dry drunk idiot running this country in to a ditch?
You’re right the Dems aren’t doing the greatest, but I have noticed some things:
My religious views aren’t front and center and i don’t have a bunch of evangelical wing nuts arrogantly smiling as they go in to the White House.
No Jack Abramoff scandal; it could always change.
No terrorist threat color grids going crazy on my television.
A President who doesn’t want to alienate Muslims and look in to leaders souls; I know I bring that up often, but it never fails to astonish me.
Not as many religious wingnuts decrying homosexuality and then getting caught hitting on young congressional pages, not as many bathroom altercations or ministers having meth fueled gay sex. Why? Because they don’t have as strong of a voice since they are not whispering in the Presidents ear and we are not watching so closely what they are doing.
Of course the Dems will lose favor and be voted out. It absolutely will happen eventually and it should, because then it would be a permanent one party rule. I still cannot forget the absolute arrogance of the Repubs when they held all the cards in their hands. It was sickening and such a corrupt environment that I ran to the other side. Are the Dems angels? Absolutely not, but the culture under Delay, Cheney and Hastert..dear Lord disgusting.
What should be done with Afghanistan? I’m not sure. I know that the Taliban is still there and that there was extreme voter intimidation to the point women had there fingers cut off. Should we allow the Taliban to infiltrate again and practice their idea of Sharia? Should we give up a footing in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its prime position so close to Iran? I don’t know?
I don’t know if this should be called Obama’s Vietnam…I really don’t know.September 1, 2009 at 9:30 PM #451672Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Not a Dylan fan eh sdgrrl? He is a poet, not a babbler and you are a twit:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/like-a-rolling-stone-lyrics-bob-dylan.html%5B/quote%5D
Thank you Zeitgeist, coming from a loon who thinks Obama is building internment camps for Liberal World domination your opinion for the rest of the time I must see it will and has never meant anything to me. I hope you have ten brothers that are exactly like in every way. For every one of you you create 100 others that will run the other way. When you find that Kenyan birth certificate or you know someone that must go to an Obama internment camp I will personally give you the biggest Piggy apology in history. Douche.
Beck/Limbaugh 2012
September 1, 2009 at 9:30 PM #451866Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Not a Dylan fan eh sdgrrl? He is a poet, not a babbler and you are a twit:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/like-a-rolling-stone-lyrics-bob-dylan.html%5B/quote%5D
Thank you Zeitgeist, coming from a loon who thinks Obama is building internment camps for Liberal World domination your opinion for the rest of the time I must see it will and has never meant anything to me. I hope you have ten brothers that are exactly like in every way. For every one of you you create 100 others that will run the other way. When you find that Kenyan birth certificate or you know someone that must go to an Obama internment camp I will personally give you the biggest Piggy apology in history. Douche.
Beck/Limbaugh 2012
September 1, 2009 at 9:30 PM #452207Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Not a Dylan fan eh sdgrrl? He is a poet, not a babbler and you are a twit:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/like-a-rolling-stone-lyrics-bob-dylan.html%5B/quote%5D
Thank you Zeitgeist, coming from a loon who thinks Obama is building internment camps for Liberal World domination your opinion for the rest of the time I must see it will and has never meant anything to me. I hope you have ten brothers that are exactly like in every way. For every one of you you create 100 others that will run the other way. When you find that Kenyan birth certificate or you know someone that must go to an Obama internment camp I will personally give you the biggest Piggy apology in history. Douche.
Beck/Limbaugh 2012
September 1, 2009 at 9:30 PM #452279Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Not a Dylan fan eh sdgrrl? He is a poet, not a babbler and you are a twit:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/like-a-rolling-stone-lyrics-bob-dylan.html%5B/quote%5D
Thank you Zeitgeist, coming from a loon who thinks Obama is building internment camps for Liberal World domination your opinion for the rest of the time I must see it will and has never meant anything to me. I hope you have ten brothers that are exactly like in every way. For every one of you you create 100 others that will run the other way. When you find that Kenyan birth certificate or you know someone that must go to an Obama internment camp I will personally give you the biggest Piggy apology in history. Douche.
Beck/Limbaugh 2012
September 1, 2009 at 9:30 PM #452470Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Not a Dylan fan eh sdgrrl? He is a poet, not a babbler and you are a twit:
http://www.metrolyrics.com/like-a-rolling-stone-lyrics-bob-dylan.html%5B/quote%5D
Thank you Zeitgeist, coming from a loon who thinks Obama is building internment camps for Liberal World domination your opinion for the rest of the time I must see it will and has never meant anything to me. I hope you have ten brothers that are exactly like in every way. For every one of you you create 100 others that will run the other way. When you find that Kenyan birth certificate or you know someone that must go to an Obama internment camp I will personally give you the biggest Piggy apology in history. Douche.
Beck/Limbaugh 2012
September 1, 2009 at 9:43 PM #451677Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantSdgrrl: You sure covered a lot of ground in your post and I’m almost not sure where to begin, in terms of responding.
I don’t disagree with many of your points and as far as the fall of the Republicans go, I always quote Lord Acton: “Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. After 20+ years at the helm, an institutionalized arrogance had set in, with predictable results.
I don’t really have anything against Obama, but I tend to agree with Surveyor’s assessment of him as an empty suit. I didn’t see bi-partisanship at work on healthcare, I saw inexperience and an intellectually superior aloofness. I’m often struck by his almost clinically technocratic nature, which at times is positive (he tends to stay cool and distant in times of stress), but is often negative (too dispassionate when discussing issues that are emotional, like healthcare or America’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Who steps up for the Republicans in 2012? Good question. I hope to God it’s not Palin, but I’m not really afraid of that happening. I happen to like Pawlenty, but as really more of the best choice of a bad lot. My wife, like you, is a Texan and I saw Dubya for what he was during his governorship of Texas.
The true conservatives in the Republican party, like Barry Goldwater, are long gone. Even Reagan’s vaunted “revolution” was more rhetoric than reality, given that Reagan raised taxes and went on a spending spree of his own.
I guess what I’m saying is that I agree neither side has a large contingent of angels. What scares me more about this Administration and Congress, is that we’re seeing what happens when the radical Left is in power and it’s much akin to what happened under Dubya when the radical Right was in power. Clinton, for all his faults, finally decided to hew close to center and did manage an effective Presidency, especially in his second term. And power is ultimately what the entire conversation ends up being about. Strip away the rhetorical flourishes from both sides and it’s about seizing and then retaining power. The potential long-term damage from this untrammeled spending spree (and it started under Bush) is terrifying and we’re just standing here and watching it happen.
September 1, 2009 at 9:43 PM #451871ParticipantSdgrrl: You sure covered a lot of ground in your post and I’m almost not sure where to begin, in terms of responding.
I don’t disagree with many of your points and as far as the fall of the Republicans go, I always quote Lord Acton: “Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. After 20+ years at the helm, an institutionalized arrogance had set in, with predictable results.
I don’t really have anything against Obama, but I tend to agree with Surveyor’s assessment of him as an empty suit. I didn’t see bi-partisanship at work on healthcare, I saw inexperience and an intellectually superior aloofness. I’m often struck by his almost clinically technocratic nature, which at times is positive (he tends to stay cool and distant in times of stress), but is often negative (too dispassionate when discussing issues that are emotional, like healthcare or America’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Who steps up for the Republicans in 2012? Good question. I hope to God it’s not Palin, but I’m not really afraid of that happening. I happen to like Pawlenty, but as really more of the best choice of a bad lot. My wife, like you, is a Texan and I saw Dubya for what he was during his governorship of Texas.
The true conservatives in the Republican party, like Barry Goldwater, are long gone. Even Reagan’s vaunted “revolution” was more rhetoric than reality, given that Reagan raised taxes and went on a spending spree of his own.
I guess what I’m saying is that I agree neither side has a large contingent of angels. What scares me more about this Administration and Congress, is that we’re seeing what happens when the radical Left is in power and it’s much akin to what happened under Dubya when the radical Right was in power. Clinton, for all his faults, finally decided to hew close to center and did manage an effective Presidency, especially in his second term. And power is ultimately what the entire conversation ends up being about. Strip away the rhetorical flourishes from both sides and it’s about seizing and then retaining power. The potential long-term damage from this untrammeled spending spree (and it started under Bush) is terrifying and we’re just standing here and watching it happen.
September 1, 2009 at 9:43 PM #452212ParticipantSdgrrl: You sure covered a lot of ground in your post and I’m almost not sure where to begin, in terms of responding.
I don’t disagree with many of your points and as far as the fall of the Republicans go, I always quote Lord Acton: “Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. After 20+ years at the helm, an institutionalized arrogance had set in, with predictable results.
I don’t really have anything against Obama, but I tend to agree with Surveyor’s assessment of him as an empty suit. I didn’t see bi-partisanship at work on healthcare, I saw inexperience and an intellectually superior aloofness. I’m often struck by his almost clinically technocratic nature, which at times is positive (he tends to stay cool and distant in times of stress), but is often negative (too dispassionate when discussing issues that are emotional, like healthcare or America’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Who steps up for the Republicans in 2012? Good question. I hope to God it’s not Palin, but I’m not really afraid of that happening. I happen to like Pawlenty, but as really more of the best choice of a bad lot. My wife, like you, is a Texan and I saw Dubya for what he was during his governorship of Texas.
The true conservatives in the Republican party, like Barry Goldwater, are long gone. Even Reagan’s vaunted “revolution” was more rhetoric than reality, given that Reagan raised taxes and went on a spending spree of his own.
I guess what I’m saying is that I agree neither side has a large contingent of angels. What scares me more about this Administration and Congress, is that we’re seeing what happens when the radical Left is in power and it’s much akin to what happened under Dubya when the radical Right was in power. Clinton, for all his faults, finally decided to hew close to center and did manage an effective Presidency, especially in his second term. And power is ultimately what the entire conversation ends up being about. Strip away the rhetorical flourishes from both sides and it’s about seizing and then retaining power. The potential long-term damage from this untrammeled spending spree (and it started under Bush) is terrifying and we’re just standing here and watching it happen.
September 1, 2009 at 9:43 PM #452284ParticipantSdgrrl: You sure covered a lot of ground in your post and I’m almost not sure where to begin, in terms of responding.
I don’t disagree with many of your points and as far as the fall of the Republicans go, I always quote Lord Acton: “Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely”. After 20+ years at the helm, an institutionalized arrogance had set in, with predictable results.
I don’t really have anything against Obama, but I tend to agree with Surveyor’s assessment of him as an empty suit. I didn’t see bi-partisanship at work on healthcare, I saw inexperience and an intellectually superior aloofness. I’m often struck by his almost clinically technocratic nature, which at times is positive (he tends to stay cool and distant in times of stress), but is often negative (too dispassionate when discussing issues that are emotional, like healthcare or America’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Who steps up for the Republicans in 2012? Good question. I hope to God it’s not Palin, but I’m not really afraid of that happening. I happen to like Pawlenty, but as really more of the best choice of a bad lot. My wife, like you, is a Texan and I saw Dubya for what he was during his governorship of Texas.
The true conservatives in the Republican party, like Barry Goldwater, are long gone. Even Reagan’s vaunted “revolution” was more rhetoric than reality, given that Reagan raised taxes and went on a spending spree of his own.
I guess what I’m saying is that I agree neither side has a large contingent of angels. What scares me more about this Administration and Congress, is that we’re seeing what happens when the radical Left is in power and it’s much akin to what happened under Dubya when the radical Right was in power. Clinton, for all his faults, finally decided to hew close to center and did manage an effective Presidency, especially in his second term. And power is ultimately what the entire conversation ends up being about. Strip away the rhetorical flourishes from both sides and it’s about seizing and then retaining power. The potential long-term damage from this untrammeled spending spree (and it started under Bush) is terrifying and we’re just standing here and watching it happen.
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