OT: Wealth Redistribution Experiment

[tc]

Our health care system is corrupt. I was sitting in on a meeting with some doctors. The speaker said something that shocked me. The presenter said that when he takes an x-ray he makes sure to show it to 4 or 5 other doctors. He said that they could then charge a fee for every doctor that examined them.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=asianautica][quote=urbanrealtor]
I am not saying its impossible but again, I dare you to show me an example that takes place in the last 10 to 20 years.[/quote]
I know quite a few people who came here 15-27 years ago (a little longer than your 20 years limit) with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Now, they are either engineers, doctors, business owners of businesses that employ as much as 400+ people and have multi-million $ profit. They made it because of hard work, extreme frugality, and great support from family and friends. When your family and friends also have nothing or just a little more than you, but willing to help each other to succeed together, you can go a long way. Also, they did receive government assistance when they first came. However, they try their darnedest to get off it ASAP, through education and frugality. So yes, it’s still doable today to go from rags to riches in America. All it takes is the right mindset.[/quote]

I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=asianautica][quote=urbanrealtor]
I am not saying its impossible but again, I dare you to show me an example that takes place in the last 10 to 20 years.[/quote]
I know quite a few people who came here 15-27 years ago (a little longer than your 20 years limit) with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Now, they are either engineers, doctors, business owners of businesses that employ as much as 400+ people and have multi-million $ profit. They made it because of hard work, extreme frugality, and great support from family and friends. When your family and friends also have nothing or just a little more than you, but willing to help each other to succeed together, you can go a long way. Also, they did receive government assistance when they first came. However, they try their darnedest to get off it ASAP, through education and frugality. So yes, it’s still doable today to go from rags to riches in America. All it takes is the right mindset.[/quote]

I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=asianautica][quote=urbanrealtor]
I am not saying its impossible but again, I dare you to show me an example that takes place in the last 10 to 20 years.[/quote]
I know quite a few people who came here 15-27 years ago (a little longer than your 20 years limit) with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Now, they are either engineers, doctors, business owners of businesses that employ as much as 400+ people and have multi-million $ profit. They made it because of hard work, extreme frugality, and great support from family and friends. When your family and friends also have nothing or just a little more than you, but willing to help each other to succeed together, you can go a long way. Also, they did receive government assistance when they first came. However, they try their darnedest to get off it ASAP, through education and frugality. So yes, it’s still doable today to go from rags to riches in America. All it takes is the right mindset.[/quote]

I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=asianautica][quote=urbanrealtor]
I am not saying its impossible but again, I dare you to show me an example that takes place in the last 10 to 20 years.[/quote]
I know quite a few people who came here 15-27 years ago (a little longer than your 20 years limit) with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Now, they are either engineers, doctors, business owners of businesses that employ as much as 400+ people and have multi-million $ profit. They made it because of hard work, extreme frugality, and great support from family and friends. When your family and friends also have nothing or just a little more than you, but willing to help each other to succeed together, you can go a long way. Also, they did receive government assistance when they first came. However, they try their darnedest to get off it ASAP, through education and frugality. So yes, it’s still doable today to go from rags to riches in America. All it takes is the right mindset.[/quote]

I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=asianautica][quote=urbanrealtor]
I am not saying its impossible but again, I dare you to show me an example that takes place in the last 10 to 20 years.[/quote]
I know quite a few people who came here 15-27 years ago (a little longer than your 20 years limit) with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Now, they are either engineers, doctors, business owners of businesses that employ as much as 400+ people and have multi-million $ profit. They made it because of hard work, extreme frugality, and great support from family and friends. When your family and friends also have nothing or just a little more than you, but willing to help each other to succeed together, you can go a long way. Also, they did receive government assistance when they first came. However, they try their darnedest to get off it ASAP, through education and frugality. So yes, it’s still doable today to go from rags to riches in America. All it takes is the right mindset.[/quote]

I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.

[34f3f3f]

[quote=cooprider]Good find AN.

qwerty007 – what’s the difference if by raising taxes Obama gives the benefits from that money to people who have done nothing to work for it?
[/quote]

Firstly, we don’t know that he will raise taxes. He’s going to inherit an enormous problem, and he may find raising taxes in the near term is politically imprudent. Many people feel the markets have failed, as a result of laissez faire economics, and that the few squeezed the many fraudulently, and are putting it down to Republican style economics. I rather doubt there are many people in the US who have first hand experience of socialism, and I would include Obama in that number. Tax is always unfair, and we all hate it, but it has become a necessary evil. How it is apportioned really boils down to your world view, philosophy, and morality. However, in the US I would not cast a vote on this issue as it is tiny in comparison with the really pressing issues, such as the economy, energy, social welfare and health, and global warming. It’s getting closer to that hour when we need to put our selfish differences behind us, and realize that the very real problems over the next twenty years are only going to be solved by consensus building and sacrifice. For all those who toiled hard and resent the enforced charity to those who they feel didn’t, maybe need to swallow the pill. This is not about socialism, or any other idealism. We need a man of the hour, and my guess is as good as yours whether Obama is that man. Let’s hope so because that’s what the odds say.

[34f3f3f]

[quote=cooprider]Good find AN.

qwerty007 – what’s the difference if by raising taxes Obama gives the benefits from that money to people who have done nothing to work for it?
[/quote]

Firstly, we don’t know that he will raise taxes. He’s going to inherit an enormous problem, and he may find raising taxes in the near term is politically imprudent. Many people feel the markets have failed, as a result of laissez faire economics, and that the few squeezed the many fraudulently, and are putting it down to Republican style economics. I rather doubt there are many people in the US who have first hand experience of socialism, and I would include Obama in that number. Tax is always unfair, and we all hate it, but it has become a necessary evil. How it is apportioned really boils down to your world view, philosophy, and morality. However, in the US I would not cast a vote on this issue as it is tiny in comparison with the really pressing issues, such as the economy, energy, social welfare and health, and global warming. It’s getting closer to that hour when we need to put our selfish differences behind us, and realize that the very real problems over the next twenty years are only going to be solved by consensus building and sacrifice. For all those who toiled hard and resent the enforced charity to those who they feel didn’t, maybe need to swallow the pill. This is not about socialism, or any other idealism. We need a man of the hour, and my guess is as good as yours whether Obama is that man. Let’s hope so because that’s what the odds say.

[34f3f3f]

[quote=cooprider]Good find AN.

qwerty007 – what’s the difference if by raising taxes Obama gives the benefits from that money to people who have done nothing to work for it?
[/quote]

Firstly, we don’t know that he will raise taxes. He’s going to inherit an enormous problem, and he may find raising taxes in the near term is politically imprudent. Many people feel the markets have failed, as a result of laissez faire economics, and that the few squeezed the many fraudulently, and are putting it down to Republican style economics. I rather doubt there are many people in the US who have first hand experience of socialism, and I would include Obama in that number. Tax is always unfair, and we all hate it, but it has become a necessary evil. How it is apportioned really boils down to your world view, philosophy, and morality. However, in the US I would not cast a vote on this issue as it is tiny in comparison with the really pressing issues, such as the economy, energy, social welfare and health, and global warming. It’s getting closer to that hour when we need to put our selfish differences behind us, and realize that the very real problems over the next twenty years are only going to be solved by consensus building and sacrifice. For all those who toiled hard and resent the enforced charity to those who they feel didn’t, maybe need to swallow the pill. This is not about socialism, or any other idealism. We need a man of the hour, and my guess is as good as yours whether Obama is that man. Let’s hope so because that’s what the odds say.

[34f3f3f]

[quote=cooprider]Good find AN.

qwerty007 – what’s the difference if by raising taxes Obama gives the benefits from that money to people who have done nothing to work for it?
[/quote]

Firstly, we don’t know that he will raise taxes. He’s going to inherit an enormous problem, and he may find raising taxes in the near term is politically imprudent. Many people feel the markets have failed, as a result of laissez faire economics, and that the few squeezed the many fraudulently, and are putting it down to Republican style economics. I rather doubt there are many people in the US who have first hand experience of socialism, and I would include Obama in that number. Tax is always unfair, and we all hate it, but it has become a necessary evil. How it is apportioned really boils down to your world view, philosophy, and morality. However, in the US I would not cast a vote on this issue as it is tiny in comparison with the really pressing issues, such as the economy, energy, social welfare and health, and global warming. It’s getting closer to that hour when we need to put our selfish differences behind us, and realize that the very real problems over the next twenty years are only going to be solved by consensus building and sacrifice. For all those who toiled hard and resent the enforced charity to those who they feel didn’t, maybe need to swallow the pill. This is not about socialism, or any other idealism. We need a man of the hour, and my guess is as good as yours whether Obama is that man. Let’s hope so because that’s what the odds say.

[34f3f3f]

[quote=cooprider]Good find AN.

qwerty007 – what’s the difference if by raising taxes Obama gives the benefits from that money to people who have done nothing to work for it?
[/quote]

Firstly, we don’t know that he will raise taxes. He’s going to inherit an enormous problem, and he may find raising taxes in the near term is politically imprudent. Many people feel the markets have failed, as a result of laissez faire economics, and that the few squeezed the many fraudulently, and are putting it down to Republican style economics. I rather doubt there are many people in the US who have first hand experience of socialism, and I would include Obama in that number. Tax is always unfair, and we all hate it, but it has become a necessary evil. How it is apportioned really boils down to your world view, philosophy, and morality. However, in the US I would not cast a vote on this issue as it is tiny in comparison with the really pressing issues, such as the economy, energy, social welfare and health, and global warming. It’s getting closer to that hour when we need to put our selfish differences behind us, and realize that the very real problems over the next twenty years are only going to be solved by consensus building and sacrifice. For all those who toiled hard and resent the enforced charity to those who they feel didn’t, maybe need to swallow the pill. This is not about socialism, or any other idealism. We need a man of the hour, and my guess is as good as yours whether Obama is that man. Let’s hope so because that’s what the odds say.

[an]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the right government assistance. I’d be gladly to pay more taxes if I see that it goes programs that actually help people who are trying to do better for themselves. What I’m trying to say is, what we have now and in the 80s & 90s in term of government assistance should be sufficient for people who want to do better for themselves to do so.

Regarding your last question, some people did have a degree in their home country. Some were teachers, accountants, etc. But some were also only HS graduate and some didn’t even have education past 6th grade. The one that did have education before they came here are now Engineers, Doctors, business owners, etc. here. However, those that didn’t are now business owners. They didn’t have any education when they came here either. They did well for themselves through their work ethic. Some still don’t even know how to write or read very well. Just enough to succeed in their business.

[an]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the right government assistance. I’d be gladly to pay more taxes if I see that it goes programs that actually help people who are trying to do better for themselves. What I’m trying to say is, what we have now and in the 80s & 90s in term of government assistance should be sufficient for people who want to do better for themselves to do so.

Regarding your last question, some people did have a degree in their home country. Some were teachers, accountants, etc. But some were also only HS graduate and some didn’t even have education past 6th grade. The one that did have education before they came here are now Engineers, Doctors, business owners, etc. here. However, those that didn’t are now business owners. They didn’t have any education when they came here either. They did well for themselves through their work ethic. Some still don’t even know how to write or read very well. Just enough to succeed in their business.

[an]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the right government assistance. I’d be gladly to pay more taxes if I see that it goes programs that actually help people who are trying to do better for themselves. What I’m trying to say is, what we have now and in the 80s & 90s in term of government assistance should be sufficient for people who want to do better for themselves to do so.

Regarding your last question, some people did have a degree in their home country. Some were teachers, accountants, etc. But some were also only HS graduate and some didn’t even have education past 6th grade. The one that did have education before they came here are now Engineers, Doctors, business owners, etc. here. However, those that didn’t are now business owners. They didn’t have any education when they came here either. They did well for themselves through their work ethic. Some still don’t even know how to write or read very well. Just enough to succeed in their business.

[an]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
I respect and agree with your point, however, it proves mine. Per your description, they used government assistance.

I suspect many of them had government aid or government backed loans in college (like many people do).

I very much respect that people work hard but the assertion that I (or anyone else) should not contribute or should be exempt from wealth redistribution because we never needed it is almost universally a false one.

Let me ask, did they have the degrees when they got here or did they get them here?

If they already had the education (or their parents did) thats not coming with just clothes. Thats coming with education and skills but starting with small bank accounts. Not exactly rags to riches.[/quote]
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the right government assistance. I’d be gladly to pay more taxes if I see that it goes programs that actually help people who are trying to do better for themselves. What I’m trying to say is, what we have now and in the 80s & 90s in term of government assistance should be sufficient for people who want to do better for themselves to do so.

Regarding your last question, some people did have a degree in their home country. Some were teachers, accountants, etc. But some were also only HS graduate and some didn’t even have education past 6th grade. The one that did have education before they came here are now Engineers, Doctors, business owners, etc. here. However, those that didn’t are now business owners. They didn’t have any education when they came here either. They did well for themselves through their work ethic. Some still don’t even know how to write or read very well. Just enough to succeed in their business.

[Author]

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