OT: Wealth Redistribution Experiment

[an]

[quote=afx114]Yep, the question becomes: Who was doing all the eating these past 8 years? I’ll also add that if the balance is not paid off in a timely manner, your interest rate (tax rate in this example) should and will go up. [/quote]
I say the majority of American have been eating at restaurants they shouldn’t have. From the guy making minimum wage buying a 1/2 million $ house to the government increasing spending by 40% to the fat cats making millions. Majority of the people have been living well beyond their means. That’s why we didn’t experience as bad of a recession as we should have in 2001. Consumer spending fill in where corporate spending left off. Majority love to point finger at the other guy, but if everyone just look in the mirror, that’s the person they all should blame. So, everyone have to do their share to pay down this debt.

[Dukehorn]

So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.

[Dukehorn]

So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.

[Dukehorn]

So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.

[Dukehorn]

So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.

[Dukehorn]

So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.

[cr]

[quote=Dukehorn]So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.[/quote]

Wow, could you patronize what those against communism are saying any more erroneously?

[cr]

[quote=Dukehorn]So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.[/quote]

Wow, could you patronize what those against communism are saying any more erroneously?

[cr]

[quote=Dukehorn]So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.[/quote]

Wow, could you patronize what those against communism are saying any more erroneously?

[cr]

[quote=Dukehorn]So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.[/quote]

Wow, could you patronize what those against communism are saying any more erroneously?

[cr]

[quote=Dukehorn]So, to use a real life scenario, what you are saying is:

a child that was born to a poor parent deserved to die from his cavities because his mother was too stupid and too poor to get him healthcare. Right? That as a society we don’t have a duty to our fellow human beings to make the world a live-able and sustainable place.

The corollary is if a child is born to a sexual predator, he/she deserves to be abused. Right? Natural law?

How very Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Islam of you…..

Seriously, try to understand the difference between managing poverty and “wealth distribution”. And don’t forget that kids are the ones that truly get harmed here though it seems you don’t give a rat’s ass.[/quote]

Wow, could you patronize what those against communism are saying any more erroneously?

[raptorduck]

Some very very good and well thought out comments here so I decided to say what I often don’t.

I hate the socialist redistribution of wealth mentality. And I actually understand Pareto efficiency and appreciate it. Why do I hate it?

I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.

We were not so lucky, but then again we were. My mom was an spanish speaking immigrant and too proud to except a hand out. She believed the only way to move up in this world is hard work. Nothing motivates you to work hard more than the gift of struggle. She worked 3 jobs making $12k/yr to raise 3 children. A few of my friends had similarly thinking moms.

Guess what. We all went to college. We all worked from a young age. My welfare friends did not work and were never motivated to work as they watched their mother’s game the system. I think these social systems actually hurt the poor. They keep them down by not motivating them to work hard to get out of the “hood.” If you do, you might loose your welfare.

Without real struggle there is not desire to work to get out. This the same issue with a kid in my “hood” choosing to deal drugs vs. working hard in school. The former pays, and pays big right away, the latter takes a long time to pay off. Why work hard for a pay off that is a long way off when lazyness pays dividends right now?

My friends who also had moms who worked hard and were not locked into an entitlement program of wealth redistribution also went to college.

I went on to grad school, co-founded companies, more grad school, great career, and now live in RSF in the type of house I dreamed of living in as a child and can provide for my direct and extended families. Nobody’s social program helped me along the way, and I am a “minority.” Hey, I must need the help cuz I came from a disadvantaged background and need someone else’s money to succeed cuz I am unable to do it myself. Hogwash.

Do I want my hard earned cash redistributed to someone who has not worked for it? Of course not. But not only because I don’t think it fair to the decades of struggle I had to overcome to get to where I am at today, but because I don’t think the person who gets my money will benefit either. I don’t want to encourage anybody to be lazy and unmotivated.

Struggle is good. My childhood was rough and I swore I would never eat Spam as an adult. But I am grateful for it. It motivated me to kill myself to succeed and I did. I want to figure out a way for my own kids to learn that lesson. I fear my success may actually hurt their development.

I am grateful to live in a country where you can go from the bottom to pretty close to the top. I believe in capitalism and the small government, individual rights, and individual accountability.

Don’t bail me out of my mistakes. Let me fall flat on my face. I will be stronger for it in the end and can’t learn to walk if you are holding me all the damn time.

As for the “better brain” dialog. Perseverance, determination, and motivation are more valuable than genius, talent, and skill. It is true that you did nothing to get your genius, but struggle gives you the more valuable gifts anyway. The world is full of underachieving geniuses and educated derelicts. I am no genius, but I if you are twice as smart and I work 10 times as hard, I may just end up ahead.

p.s. I “choose” to redistribute some of my “wealth” to the poor as well as some of my time. But that is my choice. Nobody forced me and I don’t think I have the right to force anybody to help the poor with $$ or time. I hope they do if they do it in a manner that does not remove the carrot of motivation. Teach them to fish. Don’t fish for them, I say. But I don’t have a right to make a choice for others at any rate. That is their right. The right to choose is fundamental to a free society.

[raptorduck]

Some very very good and well thought out comments here so I decided to say what I often don’t.

I hate the socialist redistribution of wealth mentality. And I actually understand Pareto efficiency and appreciate it. Why do I hate it?

I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.

We were not so lucky, but then again we were. My mom was an spanish speaking immigrant and too proud to except a hand out. She believed the only way to move up in this world is hard work. Nothing motivates you to work hard more than the gift of struggle. She worked 3 jobs making $12k/yr to raise 3 children. A few of my friends had similarly thinking moms.

Guess what. We all went to college. We all worked from a young age. My welfare friends did not work and were never motivated to work as they watched their mother’s game the system. I think these social systems actually hurt the poor. They keep them down by not motivating them to work hard to get out of the “hood.” If you do, you might loose your welfare.

Without real struggle there is not desire to work to get out. This the same issue with a kid in my “hood” choosing to deal drugs vs. working hard in school. The former pays, and pays big right away, the latter takes a long time to pay off. Why work hard for a pay off that is a long way off when lazyness pays dividends right now?

My friends who also had moms who worked hard and were not locked into an entitlement program of wealth redistribution also went to college.

I went on to grad school, co-founded companies, more grad school, great career, and now live in RSF in the type of house I dreamed of living in as a child and can provide for my direct and extended families. Nobody’s social program helped me along the way, and I am a “minority.” Hey, I must need the help cuz I came from a disadvantaged background and need someone else’s money to succeed cuz I am unable to do it myself. Hogwash.

Do I want my hard earned cash redistributed to someone who has not worked for it? Of course not. But not only because I don’t think it fair to the decades of struggle I had to overcome to get to where I am at today, but because I don’t think the person who gets my money will benefit either. I don’t want to encourage anybody to be lazy and unmotivated.

Struggle is good. My childhood was rough and I swore I would never eat Spam as an adult. But I am grateful for it. It motivated me to kill myself to succeed and I did. I want to figure out a way for my own kids to learn that lesson. I fear my success may actually hurt their development.

I am grateful to live in a country where you can go from the bottom to pretty close to the top. I believe in capitalism and the small government, individual rights, and individual accountability.

Don’t bail me out of my mistakes. Let me fall flat on my face. I will be stronger for it in the end and can’t learn to walk if you are holding me all the damn time.

As for the “better brain” dialog. Perseverance, determination, and motivation are more valuable than genius, talent, and skill. It is true that you did nothing to get your genius, but struggle gives you the more valuable gifts anyway. The world is full of underachieving geniuses and educated derelicts. I am no genius, but I if you are twice as smart and I work 10 times as hard, I may just end up ahead.

p.s. I “choose” to redistribute some of my “wealth” to the poor as well as some of my time. But that is my choice. Nobody forced me and I don’t think I have the right to force anybody to help the poor with $$ or time. I hope they do if they do it in a manner that does not remove the carrot of motivation. Teach them to fish. Don’t fish for them, I say. But I don’t have a right to make a choice for others at any rate. That is their right. The right to choose is fundamental to a free society.

[raptorduck]

Some very very good and well thought out comments here so I decided to say what I often don’t.

I hate the socialist redistribution of wealth mentality. And I actually understand Pareto efficiency and appreciate it. Why do I hate it?

I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.

We were not so lucky, but then again we were. My mom was an spanish speaking immigrant and too proud to except a hand out. She believed the only way to move up in this world is hard work. Nothing motivates you to work hard more than the gift of struggle. She worked 3 jobs making $12k/yr to raise 3 children. A few of my friends had similarly thinking moms.

Guess what. We all went to college. We all worked from a young age. My welfare friends did not work and were never motivated to work as they watched their mother’s game the system. I think these social systems actually hurt the poor. They keep them down by not motivating them to work hard to get out of the “hood.” If you do, you might loose your welfare.

Without real struggle there is not desire to work to get out. This the same issue with a kid in my “hood” choosing to deal drugs vs. working hard in school. The former pays, and pays big right away, the latter takes a long time to pay off. Why work hard for a pay off that is a long way off when lazyness pays dividends right now?

My friends who also had moms who worked hard and were not locked into an entitlement program of wealth redistribution also went to college.

I went on to grad school, co-founded companies, more grad school, great career, and now live in RSF in the type of house I dreamed of living in as a child and can provide for my direct and extended families. Nobody’s social program helped me along the way, and I am a “minority.” Hey, I must need the help cuz I came from a disadvantaged background and need someone else’s money to succeed cuz I am unable to do it myself. Hogwash.

Do I want my hard earned cash redistributed to someone who has not worked for it? Of course not. But not only because I don’t think it fair to the decades of struggle I had to overcome to get to where I am at today, but because I don’t think the person who gets my money will benefit either. I don’t want to encourage anybody to be lazy and unmotivated.

Struggle is good. My childhood was rough and I swore I would never eat Spam as an adult. But I am grateful for it. It motivated me to kill myself to succeed and I did. I want to figure out a way for my own kids to learn that lesson. I fear my success may actually hurt their development.

I am grateful to live in a country where you can go from the bottom to pretty close to the top. I believe in capitalism and the small government, individual rights, and individual accountability.

Don’t bail me out of my mistakes. Let me fall flat on my face. I will be stronger for it in the end and can’t learn to walk if you are holding me all the damn time.

As for the “better brain” dialog. Perseverance, determination, and motivation are more valuable than genius, talent, and skill. It is true that you did nothing to get your genius, but struggle gives you the more valuable gifts anyway. The world is full of underachieving geniuses and educated derelicts. I am no genius, but I if you are twice as smart and I work 10 times as hard, I may just end up ahead.

p.s. I “choose” to redistribute some of my “wealth” to the poor as well as some of my time. But that is my choice. Nobody forced me and I don’t think I have the right to force anybody to help the poor with $$ or time. I hope they do if they do it in a manner that does not remove the carrot of motivation. Teach them to fish. Don’t fish for them, I say. But I don’t have a right to make a choice for others at any rate. That is their right. The right to choose is fundamental to a free society.

[raptorduck]

Some very very good and well thought out comments here so I decided to say what I often don’t.

I hate the socialist redistribution of wealth mentality. And I actually understand Pareto efficiency and appreciate it. Why do I hate it?

I grew up in one of the poorest neighboorhoods in the US. The worst of the worst “hoods.” We were a population of fatherless kids. Almost all my friends had mothers on welfare, the poster child social program of wealth redistribution to care for the “needy.” Well most of those same folks worked jobs “under the table.” And almost all of them had a higher quality of life and had more “things” than my family did. They bought nice cars with that extra cash since the government picked up the bill for their day to day expenses.

We were not so lucky, but then again we were. My mom was an spanish speaking immigrant and too proud to except a hand out. She believed the only way to move up in this world is hard work. Nothing motivates you to work hard more than the gift of struggle. She worked 3 jobs making $12k/yr to raise 3 children. A few of my friends had similarly thinking moms.

Guess what. We all went to college. We all worked from a young age. My welfare friends did not work and were never motivated to work as they watched their mother’s game the system. I think these social systems actually hurt the poor. They keep them down by not motivating them to work hard to get out of the “hood.” If you do, you might loose your welfare.

Without real struggle there is not desire to work to get out. This the same issue with a kid in my “hood” choosing to deal drugs vs. working hard in school. The former pays, and pays big right away, the latter takes a long time to pay off. Why work hard for a pay off that is a long way off when lazyness pays dividends right now?

My friends who also had moms who worked hard and were not locked into an entitlement program of wealth redistribution also went to college.

I went on to grad school, co-founded companies, more grad school, great career, and now live in RSF in the type of house I dreamed of living in as a child and can provide for my direct and extended families. Nobody’s social program helped me along the way, and I am a “minority.” Hey, I must need the help cuz I came from a disadvantaged background and need someone else’s money to succeed cuz I am unable to do it myself. Hogwash.

Do I want my hard earned cash redistributed to someone who has not worked for it? Of course not. But not only because I don’t think it fair to the decades of struggle I had to overcome to get to where I am at today, but because I don’t think the person who gets my money will benefit either. I don’t want to encourage anybody to be lazy and unmotivated.

Struggle is good. My childhood was rough and I swore I would never eat Spam as an adult. But I am grateful for it. It motivated me to kill myself to succeed and I did. I want to figure out a way for my own kids to learn that lesson. I fear my success may actually hurt their development.

I am grateful to live in a country where you can go from the bottom to pretty close to the top. I believe in capitalism and the small government, individual rights, and individual accountability.

Don’t bail me out of my mistakes. Let me fall flat on my face. I will be stronger for it in the end and can’t learn to walk if you are holding me all the damn time.

As for the “better brain” dialog. Perseverance, determination, and motivation are more valuable than genius, talent, and skill. It is true that you did nothing to get your genius, but struggle gives you the more valuable gifts anyway. The world is full of underachieving geniuses and educated derelicts. I am no genius, but I if you are twice as smart and I work 10 times as hard, I may just end up ahead.

p.s. I “choose” to redistribute some of my “wealth” to the poor as well as some of my time. But that is my choice. Nobody forced me and I don’t think I have the right to force anybody to help the poor with $$ or time. I hope they do if they do it in a manner that does not remove the carrot of motivation. Teach them to fish. Don’t fish for them, I say. But I don’t have a right to make a choice for others at any rate. That is their right. The right to choose is fundamental to a free society.

[Author]

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