OT – The Dream Act

[Anonymous]

[quote=Eugene][quote]That is great news, killing the Dream Act was the only good thing that came out of Washington. That is nothing more than a back door amnesty program. Once those kids are granted citizenship, they will just petition their parents and other family members[/quote]

Out of curiosity, are you familiar with the petitioning process, especially for Mexicans?

Here’s how it would’ve worked, if the Dream Act were passed.

If you’re an illegal immigrant under 30, you have a high school diploma, a person of good moral character, etc. etc., you can apply for “conditional nonimmigrant status”. This status allows you to work or to study, but you can’t sponsor any family members, and you are subject to deportation if you commit a crime.

You stay in this status for 10 years. After the 10 years, you have to show that you got at least a two-year college degree or that you have served in the military. If that’s true, you can apply for a green card. No one knows how long it will take to get the green card (with all the 500,000 conditional nonimmigrants simultaneously trying to file for adjustment of status). Let’s be optimistic and call it two years.

After three years with a green card, you can apply for citizenship. Once again, this takes at least a year from the filing to the ceremony.

If you’re keeping track, it is the year 2027 now. And now finally you’ll be able to petition for your parents and other family members.

With your parents, that’s relatively easy. $420 for each parent and a couple of years. By the year 2035, they will naturalize, and, by 2037 or so, they’ll start bringing their unmarried children under 21 into the country.

At this point, the process comes to a complete stop. Because, to petition for any other family member other than parents, unmarried children under 21, and spouses, you have to file papers and then wait for the “cut-off date” to arrive. The cut-off date exists because there’s a fixed number of family-reunification visas available for each country, and the demand for those visas from Mexico far outstrips supply. So you go to the end of the line. As of today, the wait is 15 to 18 years long, depending on specific relationship. And it keeps getting longer.

And the bottom line is, most likely none of us would still be alive by the time first “other family members” of DREAM act beneficiaries start legalizing.[/quote]

Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone]Just more drain on our already broken social programs. [/quote]

The young immigrants will have at least a 2-year college education. How is that a drain on social programs?[/quote]

At this point in time (note the unemployment rate), a person with only a 2-year degree is highly unlikely to be able to support him/herself AND be able to cover all their expenses, including healthcare and education expenses, for themselves and for their children (if they’ve had any after moving here, which is a distinct possibility).

The fact is, we don’t need any additional workers in this country right now, with the exception of a very few jobs that might *perhaps* need expertise found more readily outside the country. This does not mean we need to hire cheaper workers, just more experienced/qualified ones (even at a higher cost).

OTOH, I’ve always believed that if someone serves in our military, especially in a war, they’ve certainly earned their citizenship.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone]Just more drain on our already broken social programs. [/quote]

The young immigrants will have at least a 2-year college education. How is that a drain on social programs?[/quote]

At this point in time (note the unemployment rate), a person with only a 2-year degree is highly unlikely to be able to support him/herself AND be able to cover all their expenses, including healthcare and education expenses, for themselves and for their children (if they’ve had any after moving here, which is a distinct possibility).

The fact is, we don’t need any additional workers in this country right now, with the exception of a very few jobs that might *perhaps* need expertise found more readily outside the country. This does not mean we need to hire cheaper workers, just more experienced/qualified ones (even at a higher cost).

OTOH, I’ve always believed that if someone serves in our military, especially in a war, they’ve certainly earned their citizenship.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone]Just more drain on our already broken social programs. [/quote]

The young immigrants will have at least a 2-year college education. How is that a drain on social programs?[/quote]

At this point in time (note the unemployment rate), a person with only a 2-year degree is highly unlikely to be able to support him/herself AND be able to cover all their expenses, including healthcare and education expenses, for themselves and for their children (if they’ve had any after moving here, which is a distinct possibility).

The fact is, we don’t need any additional workers in this country right now, with the exception of a very few jobs that might *perhaps* need expertise found more readily outside the country. This does not mean we need to hire cheaper workers, just more experienced/qualified ones (even at a higher cost).

OTOH, I’ve always believed that if someone serves in our military, especially in a war, they’ve certainly earned their citizenship.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone]Just more drain on our already broken social programs. [/quote]

The young immigrants will have at least a 2-year college education. How is that a drain on social programs?[/quote]

At this point in time (note the unemployment rate), a person with only a 2-year degree is highly unlikely to be able to support him/herself AND be able to cover all their expenses, including healthcare and education expenses, for themselves and for their children (if they’ve had any after moving here, which is a distinct possibility).

The fact is, we don’t need any additional workers in this country right now, with the exception of a very few jobs that might *perhaps* need expertise found more readily outside the country. This does not mean we need to hire cheaper workers, just more experienced/qualified ones (even at a higher cost).

OTOH, I’ve always believed that if someone serves in our military, especially in a war, they’ve certainly earned their citizenship.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone]Just more drain on our already broken social programs. [/quote]

The young immigrants will have at least a 2-year college education. How is that a drain on social programs?[/quote]

At this point in time (note the unemployment rate), a person with only a 2-year degree is highly unlikely to be able to support him/herself AND be able to cover all their expenses, including healthcare and education expenses, for themselves and for their children (if they’ve had any after moving here, which is a distinct possibility).

The fact is, we don’t need any additional workers in this country right now, with the exception of a very few jobs that might *perhaps* need expertise found more readily outside the country. This does not mean we need to hire cheaper workers, just more experienced/qualified ones (even at a higher cost).

OTOH, I’ve always believed that if someone serves in our military, especially in a war, they’ve certainly earned their citizenship.

[Eugene]

[quote]Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.[/quote]

In theory, any job that exists. I know that many H1B immigrants were very unhappy about this law, because, if you try to immigrate here via the H1B process (for which, a master’s degree or equivalent is mandatory), you have to keep working in the same industry and possibly with more or less the same job description till you get the green card, but the “conditional nonimmigrant” can do anything he/she wants.

Getting security clearance is a different story. I’m not sure if a former illegal immigrant can get security clearance at all. In the private industry, security clearance usually implies U.S. citizenship. And even then you go through a rigorous background check up to the point of having FBI agents go to places where you lived 20 years ago, knocking on doors and talking to your former neighbors.

There’s no advantage to staying undocumented. You have to find ways to beat E-Verify, you have to hide from the cops, your chances of getting a good job get progressively slimmer as you move up the food chain…

The biggest problem I have with the law as the Congress tried to pass it, is that it basically gives a 10-year immunity from deportation to anyone who manages to graduate from high school, even though only a small fraction of those would actually end up meeting college/military requirements down the road. This part could’ve been better written. By the time the 10-year period expires, half of the “conditional nonimmigrants” will have 8-year-old kids and they’ll have no choice but to go off the books.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind allowing said illegals to pay in-state rates for college tuition, as long as they qualify for college admissions on general grounds (this was, I believe, taken out of the bill over GOP objections). That is already the case in California, because crafty state attorneys made that happen; but it’s not the case everywhere. Any student intelligent enough to pass admission tests should be able to get college education, regardless of his/her legal status.

BTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.

[Eugene]

[quote]Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.[/quote]

In theory, any job that exists. I know that many H1B immigrants were very unhappy about this law, because, if you try to immigrate here via the H1B process (for which, a master’s degree or equivalent is mandatory), you have to keep working in the same industry and possibly with more or less the same job description till you get the green card, but the “conditional nonimmigrant” can do anything he/she wants.

Getting security clearance is a different story. I’m not sure if a former illegal immigrant can get security clearance at all. In the private industry, security clearance usually implies U.S. citizenship. And even then you go through a rigorous background check up to the point of having FBI agents go to places where you lived 20 years ago, knocking on doors and talking to your former neighbors.

There’s no advantage to staying undocumented. You have to find ways to beat E-Verify, you have to hide from the cops, your chances of getting a good job get progressively slimmer as you move up the food chain…

The biggest problem I have with the law as the Congress tried to pass it, is that it basically gives a 10-year immunity from deportation to anyone who manages to graduate from high school, even though only a small fraction of those would actually end up meeting college/military requirements down the road. This part could’ve been better written. By the time the 10-year period expires, half of the “conditional nonimmigrants” will have 8-year-old kids and they’ll have no choice but to go off the books.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind allowing said illegals to pay in-state rates for college tuition, as long as they qualify for college admissions on general grounds (this was, I believe, taken out of the bill over GOP objections). That is already the case in California, because crafty state attorneys made that happen; but it’s not the case everywhere. Any student intelligent enough to pass admission tests should be able to get college education, regardless of his/her legal status.

BTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.

[Eugene]

[quote]Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.[/quote]

In theory, any job that exists. I know that many H1B immigrants were very unhappy about this law, because, if you try to immigrate here via the H1B process (for which, a master’s degree or equivalent is mandatory), you have to keep working in the same industry and possibly with more or less the same job description till you get the green card, but the “conditional nonimmigrant” can do anything he/she wants.

Getting security clearance is a different story. I’m not sure if a former illegal immigrant can get security clearance at all. In the private industry, security clearance usually implies U.S. citizenship. And even then you go through a rigorous background check up to the point of having FBI agents go to places where you lived 20 years ago, knocking on doors and talking to your former neighbors.

There’s no advantage to staying undocumented. You have to find ways to beat E-Verify, you have to hide from the cops, your chances of getting a good job get progressively slimmer as you move up the food chain…

The biggest problem I have with the law as the Congress tried to pass it, is that it basically gives a 10-year immunity from deportation to anyone who manages to graduate from high school, even though only a small fraction of those would actually end up meeting college/military requirements down the road. This part could’ve been better written. By the time the 10-year period expires, half of the “conditional nonimmigrants” will have 8-year-old kids and they’ll have no choice but to go off the books.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind allowing said illegals to pay in-state rates for college tuition, as long as they qualify for college admissions on general grounds (this was, I believe, taken out of the bill over GOP objections). That is already the case in California, because crafty state attorneys made that happen; but it’s not the case everywhere. Any student intelligent enough to pass admission tests should be able to get college education, regardless of his/her legal status.

BTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.

[Eugene]

[quote]Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.[/quote]

In theory, any job that exists. I know that many H1B immigrants were very unhappy about this law, because, if you try to immigrate here via the H1B process (for which, a master’s degree or equivalent is mandatory), you have to keep working in the same industry and possibly with more or less the same job description till you get the green card, but the “conditional nonimmigrant” can do anything he/she wants.

Getting security clearance is a different story. I’m not sure if a former illegal immigrant can get security clearance at all. In the private industry, security clearance usually implies U.S. citizenship. And even then you go through a rigorous background check up to the point of having FBI agents go to places where you lived 20 years ago, knocking on doors and talking to your former neighbors.

There’s no advantage to staying undocumented. You have to find ways to beat E-Verify, you have to hide from the cops, your chances of getting a good job get progressively slimmer as you move up the food chain…

The biggest problem I have with the law as the Congress tried to pass it, is that it basically gives a 10-year immunity from deportation to anyone who manages to graduate from high school, even though only a small fraction of those would actually end up meeting college/military requirements down the road. This part could’ve been better written. By the time the 10-year period expires, half of the “conditional nonimmigrants” will have 8-year-old kids and they’ll have no choice but to go off the books.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind allowing said illegals to pay in-state rates for college tuition, as long as they qualify for college admissions on general grounds (this was, I believe, taken out of the bill over GOP objections). That is already the case in California, because crafty state attorneys made that happen; but it’s not the case everywhere. Any student intelligent enough to pass admission tests should be able to get college education, regardless of his/her legal status.

BTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.

[Eugene]

[quote]Since you’re the expert, what kind of job can someone get in a “conditional nonimmigrant status”? Certinaly can’t get very far in the military cause no way you’re getting a security clearance.

Based on what you are saying, I would venture to guess many of these kids are better off staying undocumented. Obviously being undocumented has not been a hindrance to getting work for millions of people.[/quote]

In theory, any job that exists. I know that many H1B immigrants were very unhappy about this law, because, if you try to immigrate here via the H1B process (for which, a master’s degree or equivalent is mandatory), you have to keep working in the same industry and possibly with more or less the same job description till you get the green card, but the “conditional nonimmigrant” can do anything he/she wants.

Getting security clearance is a different story. I’m not sure if a former illegal immigrant can get security clearance at all. In the private industry, security clearance usually implies U.S. citizenship. And even then you go through a rigorous background check up to the point of having FBI agents go to places where you lived 20 years ago, knocking on doors and talking to your former neighbors.

There’s no advantage to staying undocumented. You have to find ways to beat E-Verify, you have to hide from the cops, your chances of getting a good job get progressively slimmer as you move up the food chain…

The biggest problem I have with the law as the Congress tried to pass it, is that it basically gives a 10-year immunity from deportation to anyone who manages to graduate from high school, even though only a small fraction of those would actually end up meeting college/military requirements down the road. This part could’ve been better written. By the time the 10-year period expires, half of the “conditional nonimmigrants” will have 8-year-old kids and they’ll have no choice but to go off the books.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t mind allowing said illegals to pay in-state rates for college tuition, as long as they qualify for college admissions on general grounds (this was, I believe, taken out of the bill over GOP objections). That is already the case in California, because crafty state attorneys made that happen; but it’s not the case everywhere. Any student intelligent enough to pass admission tests should be able to get college education, regardless of his/her legal status.

BTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.

[Anonymous]

[quote=EugeneBTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.[/quote]

Eugene, this wouldn’t surprise me. But what I don’t understand is if someone is living in the US illegally why would the US grant them a green card? I would exepect that they would be required to go through an interview process at a US consulate in Mexico (or whatever country). THis would require them to return to their country at some point.

[Anonymous]

[quote=EugeneBTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.[/quote]

Eugene, this wouldn’t surprise me. But what I don’t understand is if someone is living in the US illegally why would the US grant them a green card? I would exepect that they would be required to go through an interview process at a US consulate in Mexico (or whatever country). THis would require them to return to their country at some point.

[Anonymous]

[quote=EugeneBTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.[/quote]

Eugene, this wouldn’t surprise me. But what I don’t understand is if someone is living in the US illegally why would the US grant them a green card? I would exepect that they would be required to go through an interview process at a US consulate in Mexico (or whatever country). THis would require them to return to their country at some point.

[Anonymous]

[quote=EugeneBTW, an interesting fact related to that 15-year long wait to get an immigrant visa that I mentioned earlier. I recall reading that something like half of all illegal immigrants currently in this country are on that list. In other words, their U.S. citizen relatives filed the family reunification petition some time in 1995 or 2000, the petition is still on hold (for who knows how long), in the mean time, they are already here, they have a house and they are working whatever jobs they can get, in anticipation of legal status that they know they’ll eventually get.[/quote]

Eugene, this wouldn’t surprise me. But what I don’t understand is if someone is living in the US illegally why would the US grant them a green card? I would exepect that they would be required to go through an interview process at a US consulate in Mexico (or whatever country). THis would require them to return to their country at some point.

[Author]

Posts