OT – The Dream Act

[CA renter]

[quote=Aecetia]You are right about that Brian, we are being sacked. I would welcome a system that streamlines immigration that emphasizes healthy, educated immigrants who are bringing something to the country. We do not need an underclass of peasants. Maybe that is what corporations want, but it is not what the country needs. If anything, our middle class of hard working people is the strength of the country, not the super rich and not the desperately poor. We are not going to grow the economy with entitlements for either of those.

I have mentioned it before, but will bring it up again, we have a family friend who is wealthy who wanted to move to Australia. He has had a heart attack, so although he would never conceivably need medical care, they refused him because he “could” someday be a burden to their country. That is how they protect themselves from people who would drain their economy.[/quote]

Totally agree with this, Aecetia.

[ocrenter]

Obviously a calculated political move.

But it is the right thing to do. These kids would essentially be foreigners to their country of origin.

[briansd1]

How is it a calculated move since Obama has been supporting the Dream Act all along?
The republicans have blocked the Dream Act.

This is really about doing the right thing, some relief for those kids while Republicans are obstructing.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]How is it a calculated move since Obama has been supporting the Dream Act all along?
The republicans have blocked the Dream Act.

This is really about doing the right thing, some relief for those kids while Republicans are obstructing.[/quote]

Calculated because it mobilizes the Latinos. In an election that has been rather lackluster.

Of course it happens to be the right thing to do as well.

Why can’t something be right and calculated at the same time?

[ucodegen]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=deadzone]
Regarding in-state tuition, I am strongly against that. Illegals by definition do not pay state or federal income tax…[/quote]

Not sure why you think this. Both with regards to the definition of illegal and that the undocumented pay no state or federal income tax.
Neither is innacurate.[/quote]
So please explain how an illegal can pay state or federal income tax when they do not have a SSN or TIN? TIN’s are given to legal aliens w/ green cards by the way. SSN is naturalized citizen. Income tax payments from employers on behalf of an employee are associated with an SSN/TIN – it is not just a big pool of money dumped by an employer at the Franchise Tax Board and Internal Revenue service’s doors. This is also how the Social Security Administration can come up with your pay history for your Social Security Benefits, which they annually send out the Benefit Analysis sheet to citizens who are employed.

A lot of the wages for illegals are handled as cash under the table – Cash = not track-able. Note that I highlighted income which is not the same as sales tax.

[spdrun]

So please explain how an illegal can pay state or federal income tax when they do not have a SSN or TIN?
…
…
A lot of the wages for illegals are handled as cash under the table – Cash = not track-able. Note that I highlighted income which is not the same as sales tax.

Actually, a lot of illegals are paid using stolen SSNs these days. From what I’ve read, probably more than are paid the old way via cash under the table. They’re paying the taxes — they’ll just never see any benefits.

[an]

[quote=spdrun]

So please explain how an illegal can pay state or federal income tax when they do not have a SSN or TIN?
…
…
A lot of the wages for illegals are handled as cash under the table – Cash = not track-able. Note that I highlighted income which is not the same as sales tax.

Actually, a lot of illegals are paid using stolen SSNs these days. From what I’ve read, probably more than are paid the old way via cash under the table. They’re paying the taxes — they’ll just never see any benefits.[/quote]
Is there anyway to validate this statement?

BTW, where do they get the stolen SSNs? Identity theft? Do they also open credit cards with those SSNs too?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=AN][quote=spdrun]

So please explain how an illegal can pay state or federal income tax when they do not have a SSN or TIN?
…
…
A lot of the wages for illegals are handled as cash under the table – Cash = not track-able. Note that I highlighted income which is not the same as sales tax.

Actually, a lot of illegals are paid using stolen SSNs these days. From what I’ve read, probably more than are paid the old way via cash under the table. They’re paying the taxes — they’ll just never see any benefits.[/quote]
Is there anyway to validate this statement?

BTW, where do they get the stolen SSNs? Identity theft? Do they also open credit cards with those SSNs too?[/quote]

They “buy” the SSN on the black market. This is a huge enterprise in Los Angeles County. Often they are decedents’ or a minor’s SSN. The “manufactured” Social Security cards looked pretty good. I once knew an accountant in National City (Filipina). Yes, she really had an accounting degree and was the “controller” for a small biz there of about 40 employees. Her visa had run out and she was using a decedent’s SSN so she could continue to be employed in the US. Her employer didn’t realize it. She had a six-year old child in San Diego that she didn’t want to leave behind. The father was local but married to someone else and his spouse didn’t know about the child.

How do I know all this? I represented a her as an FHA buyer on a NC house. After I opened escrow, she got the “Statement of Information” from the title company to fill out and a mountain of other forms to fill out for her FHA loan. She looked them over, panicked, got cold feet, promptly backed out of the deal and told me she decided to keep renting until she could put down 20% or pay cash for a property.

Aside from this minor problem, she was otherwise a little overqualified for the modest house she was in escrow to buy :=0

[bearishgurl]

To answer your questions about identity theft, AN, I suppose one can use a minor’s SSN to apply for credit, etc. Since a minor doesn’t really NEED to use their SSN yet, when they become an adult and run their credit reports, they will find out someone else used their SSN to open new credit accounts and pretended to be them when they were too young to take out any credit. I imagine this could take awhile to clear up.

I would presume persons using a decedent’s SSN could attempt to take out credit in that decedent’s name and get away with it for awhile or even indefinitely. This would depend on how long the SSN-holder has been dead, their age at time of death and whether their estate was still open.

Note that my experience with this buyer “with an assumed name” dates back to 1991, prior to US employers’ mandatory use of Form I-9, the internet, FICO scores, etc. I’m not sure someone could get away with this for years, anymore, like she did. I kinda felt sorry for her at the time because she would never be able to collect the substantial SS she and her employer(s) deposited into the “system” under her “assumed name.” She had absolutely NO IDEA that buying a property (ESP under a “govm’t program”) was this involved. In addition, I think she would have returned to the Phillipines to work after she couldn’t get her visa renewed but for her minor son.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]

Calculated because it mobilizes the Latinos. In an election that has been rather lackluster.

Of course it happens to be the right thing to do as well.

Why can’t something be right and calculated at the same time?[/quote]

I don’t know how this move is beneficial to Obama. He may turn off heartland Democrats.

I don’t believe it’s politically motivated because Obama’s heart was always for doing the right thing by those immigrant kids. To me, a politically motivated move would an insincere move to placate a group.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=ocrenter]

Calculated because it mobilizes the Latinos. In an election that has been rather lackluster.

Of course it happens to be the right thing to do as well.

Why can’t something be right and calculated at the same time?[/quote]

I don’t know how this move is beneficial to Obama. He may turn off heartland Democrats.

I don’t believe it’s politically motivated because Obama’s heart was always for doing the right thing by those immigrant kids. To me, a politically motivated move would an insincere move to placate a group.[/quote]

It could make a big difference with battleground Florida.

He very well could have done it earlier, or simply waited until after the election.

[Anonymous]

This is so clearly pandering for the election with no real substance. Can someone explain to me how an illegal immigrant can serve in the military? If that is actually happening, then there needs to be an investigation and somebody should be in jail. Also, this doesn’t promise a green card or citizenship so why would anybody raise their hand? After two years if the political climate has changed, then they have already “outed” themselves as illegals.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
He very well could have done it earlier, or simply waited until after the election.[/quote]

Lose lose for Obama. Either way, by one side or another he will be caused of being politically motivated.

BTW, Florida has a huge Republican base of Cuban exiles, just like the Vietnamese refugees in California — relatively lower income Republicans.

[an]

[quote=bearishgurl]To answer your questions about identity theft, AN, I suppose one can use a minor’s SSN to apply for credit, etc. Since a minor doesn’t really NEED to use their SSN yet, when they become an adult and run their credit reports, they will find out someone else used their SSN to open new credit accounts and pretended to be them when they were too young to take out any credit. I imagine this could take awhile to clear up.

I would presume persons using a decedent’s SSN could attempt to take out credit in that decedent’s name and get away with it for awhile or even indefinitely. This would depend on how long the SSN-holder has been dead, their age at time of death and whether their estate was still open.[/quote]
Why are you assuming the identity only belong to minor and the deceased? As someone who got their identity stolen and said “person” tried but unsuccessfully to open credit and buy stuff with my identity, I have 0 tolerance for people who do this. It took me many hours and constant headaches for months to make sure that person won’t be successful trying to open an account under my name. I can’t imagine what it would be like for a minor to grow and find out they owe many thousands for many years. With regards to the deceased, it’s no different than if these thieves goes into the bank and rob them of thousands at gun point. So, I have NO sympathy for anyone who steal other’s identity. I hope they’ll get boot ASAP.

BTW, if one truly really want to fix immigration, they would allow ALL foreign students to have permanent resident status. They should also allow the children of illegals to get permanent resident status too (assuming they commit no crime, including identity theft). We should create some kind of special Visa for migrant workers who just want to come here to work in the field during picking seasons. If we give them a legal way to get in, then we can monitor that. We should also fine all corporations who purposefully hire illegals. I don’t expect true reform to happen, because both side have something to lose. So, the “Dream Act” is nothing more than pandering. It, in no way will fix the immigration problem.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=ocrenter]
He very well could have done it earlier, or simply waited until after the election.[/quote]

Lose lose for Obama. Either way, by one side or another he will be caused of being politically motivated.

BTW, Florida has a huge Republican base of Cuban exiles, just like the Vietnamese refugees in California — relatively lower income Republicans.[/quote]

Hey, clearly Romney is afraid to anger the Latinos. that’s why he has not come out against it (except to say Obama is trying to score political points) or said he will repeal it if elected.

[Author]

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