OT: Temecula Police “DUI” Checkpoint @ 8AM on a Wed Morning!!!

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]

I can also assure you that there most certainly are Caltech graduates who work for the government.[/quote]

Perhaps, but they’re not fixing potholes.

[paramount]

You would hold up a few anecdotal examples and conclude that an Ivy league education counts for basically nothing?

Look, if you can get into an Ivy Leaque school within a year I’ll give you $500 bucks. I’m not saying you have to enroll, just get admitted.

And speaking of being connected, isn’t that how most get govt jobs to begin with…?

The govt has the most discriminatory hiring practices of all employers in the US IMO.

Will you stop at nothing to try and convince us all of your Superior Govt Worker Race Theory?

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]You would hold up a few anecdotal examples and conclude that an Ivy league education counts for basically nothing?

Look, if you can get into an Ivy Leaque school within a year I’ll give you $500 bucks. I’m not saying you have to enroll, just get admitted.

And speaking of being connected, isn’t that how most get govt jobs to begin with…?

The govt has the most discriminatory hiring practices of all employers in the US IMO.

Will you stop at nothing to try and convince us all of your Superior Govt Worker Race Theory?[/quote]

An Ivy League education counts because it offers more opportunities to network. That has always been the case. The people who graduate from these universities are not 100X (or even 10X) better or smarter than everyone else; they simply have more connections, usually before and after attending the institution.

As for the bolded part of your post…you have got to be kidding. Public agencies are THE most egalitarian employers out there. My father worked in public service, my husband does, and I did, in addition to many other friends and family members. NONE OF US had any inside help of any kind at all.

Public agencies are also more likely to focus on diversity WRT gender, race, physical ability, etc.

Your statements show exactly how ignorant you are about this topic, once again. Either you are truly clueless, or you’re just trolling. I’m losing my patience with these stupid emotional remarks of yours.

And yes, those Caltech graduates may very well be working in Civil Engineering or other specialties in which you wrongly think they don’t exist.

[Reality]

[quote=CA renter]

Public agencies are also more likely to focus on diversity WRT gender, race, physical ability, etc.
[/quote]

Instead of focusing on getting the most quaified candidate?

So they have an agenda.

[CA renter]

Of course, they always try to hire the most qualified candidates, but they do so with an eye toward diversity…just as all employers are supposed to do.

They specifically try to avoid the appearance of a “Good Ol’ Boys’ Club,” as they should.

[Gunslinger]

As a recently retired member if the LAPD. I have to step in and point out there is in fact a huge amount of nepotism in the public sector particularly law enforcement and the fire department. The Good Ol’ Boys Club you speak of is alive and well. I don’t know of another career where there is a greater family tradition of multi-generational employment. Recruits from career police and fire families know how the game is played and what they need to do to get through the hiring process. They have de facto in house coaches. With regards to the quality yes there are plenty of bright but not highly educated officers. However, I increasingly felt we were in the minority. I looked back on my service as an honor and a privilege but was glad to take retirement as soon as I was able.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=CA renter]Of course, they always try to hire the most qualified candidates, but they do so with an eye toward diversity…just as all employers are supposed, to do.

They specifically try to avoid the appearance of a “Good Ol’ Boys’ Club,” as they should.[/quote]

No one should be SUPPOSED to hire towards diversity. Everyone should hire most qualified while striving to be as colorblind as possible.

Hiring towards diversity is institutionalized racism.

[CA renter]

Please read again: “…hire the most qualified candidates, but they do so with an eye toward diversity…”

Meaning that if two candidates are equally qualified, if the color/gender/etc. of one candidate is currently underrepresented in the department, then they should choose that candidate.

[CA renter]

[quote=Gunslinger]As a recently retired member if the LAPD. I have to step in and point out there is in fact a huge amount of nepotism in the public sector particularly law enforcement and the fire department. The Good Ol’ Boys Club you speak of is alive and well. I don’t know of another career where there is a greater family tradition of multi-generational employment. Recruits from career police and fire families know how the game is played and what they need to do to get through the hiring process. They have de facto in house coaches. With regards to the quality yes there are plenty of bright but not highly educated officers. However, I increasingly felt we were in the minority. I looked back on my service as an honor and a privilege but was glad to take retirement as soon as I was able.[/quote]

“Coaching” by a parent is VERY different from nepotism. People from all walks of life advise their kids if their children want to follow in their footsteps. Not sure that more children follow their parents into police or fire work than in any other profession (doctors, lawyers, accountants, people in construction, etc. often have multiple generations in the same industry as well).

I would also add that anyone without family in police or fire would get the same advice if they were to ask around at their local fire/police stations, particularly if they found the right mentors, which isn’t too difficult. It’s not a matter of being related; it’s a matter of seeking out the information. Yes, it’s easier to ask dad or mom, but a motivated candidate will volunteer, ride along, and do whatever it takes to get the same information and advice.

And I know of three different kids whose fathers were chiefs in small city, large city, and large county fire departments. All of them wanted to follow in their fathers’ footsteps, and all were “coached” as to what they should do to qualify for the jobs. *Not one* of them was able to get a position in their fathers’ departments, even though their fathers were either #1 or #2 in the entire departments. So, no, nepotism is NOT an issue in public service; at least not that I have ever seen…and I’ve lived in and around it my whole, entire life.

[spdrun]

Is what’s true for three fire departments in CA true for a jerkwater PD in New Mexico?

[scaredyclassic]

i am always fascinated by parentchild law partnerships. there are a few that ive met. i always ask about how it works, if they squabble, if they knew from an early age they’d go that way.

the parent part of the partnerships always seems to be a pretty cool character, at least not a visibly type A.

i thought the subejct would make an interesting little article…

[Gunslinger]

[quote=CA renter][quote=Gunslinger]As a recently retired member if the LAPD. I have to step in and point out there is in fact a huge amount of nepotism in the public sector particularly law enforcement and the fire department. The Good Ol’ Boys Club you speak of is alive and well. I don’t know of another career where there is a greater family tradition of multi-generational employment. Recruits from career police and fire families know how the game is played and what they need to do to get through the hiring process. They have de facto in house coaches. With regards to the quality yes there are plenty of bright but not highly educated officers. However, I increasingly felt we were in the minority. I looked back on my service as an honor and a privilege but was glad to take retirement as soon as I was able.[/quote]

“Coaching” by a parent is VERY different from nepotism. People from all walks of life advise their kids if their children want to follow in their footsteps. Not sure that more children follow their parents into police or fire work than in any other profession (doctors, lawyers, accountants, people in construction, etc. often have multiple generations in the same industry as well).

I would also add that anyone without family in police or fire would get the same advice if they were to ask around at their local fire/police stations, particularly if they found the right mentors, which isn’t too difficult. It’s not a matter of being related; it’s a matter of seeking out the information. Yes, it’s easier to ask dad or mom, but a motivated candidate will volunteer, ride along, and do whatever it takes to get the same information and advice.

And I know of three different kids whose fathers were chiefs in small city, large city, and large county fire departments. All of them wanted to follow in their fathers’ footsteps, and all were “coached” as to what they should do to qualify for the jobs. *Not one* of them was able to get a position in their fathers’ departments, even though their fathers were either #1 or #2 in the entire departments. So, no, nepotism is NOT an issue in public service; at least not that I have ever seen…and I’ve lived in and around it my whole, entire life.[/quote]

I’m sorry. I guess my 30 years on the force as a 3rd generation cop mean nothing. You know better than I. Nevermind.

BTW, you get my kid into your department and I’ll get yours into mine never happens either.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Gunslinger]You know better than I. Nevermind.[/quote]

I give you credit for figuring out CA Renter more quickly than the rest of us.

No let’s get back to discussing which institution is more selective:

Carlsbad PD, or Harvard undergrad?

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]Is what’s true for three fire departments in CA true for a jerkwater PD in New Mexico?[/quote]

I cannot speak to that. My experience and knowledge pertain primarily to public service in California, mostly in large and medium-sized agencies (the small department I mentioned would probably be considered “medium sized” when compared to departments across the country). Outside of California, I know some federal employees and a few public school teachers…and no claims of nepotism have ever come up in any work-related conversations with them.

[CA renter]

[quote=Gunslinger][quote=CA renter][quote=Gunslinger]As a recently retired member if the LAPD. I have to step in and point out there is in fact a huge amount of nepotism in the public sector particularly law enforcement and the fire department. The Good Ol’ Boys Club you speak of is alive and well. I don’t know of another career where there is a greater family tradition of multi-generational employment. Recruits from career police and fire families know how the game is played and what they need to do to get through the hiring process. They have de facto in house coaches. With regards to the quality yes there are plenty of bright but not highly educated officers. However, I increasingly felt we were in the minority. I looked back on my service as an honor and a privilege but was glad to take retirement as soon as I was able.[/quote]

“Coaching” by a parent is VERY different from nepotism. People from all walks of life advise their kids if their children want to follow in their footsteps. Not sure that more children follow their parents into police or fire work than in any other profession (doctors, lawyers, accountants, people in construction, etc. often have multiple generations in the same industry as well).

I would also add that anyone without family in police or fire would get the same advice if they were to ask around at their local fire/police stations, particularly if they found the right mentors, which isn’t too difficult. It’s not a matter of being related; it’s a matter of seeking out the information. Yes, it’s easier to ask dad or mom, but a motivated candidate will volunteer, ride along, and do whatever it takes to get the same information and advice.

And I know of three different kids whose fathers were chiefs in small city, large city, and large county fire departments. All of them wanted to follow in their fathers’ footsteps, and all were “coached” as to what they should do to qualify for the jobs. *Not one* of them was able to get a position in their fathers’ departments, even though their fathers were either #1 or #2 in the entire departments. So, no, nepotism is NOT an issue in public service; at least not that I have ever seen…and I’ve lived in and around it my whole, entire life.[/quote]

I’m sorry. I guess my 30 years on the force as a 3rd generation cop mean nothing. You know better than I. Nevermind.

BTW, you get my kid into your department and I’ll get yours into mine never happens either.[/quote]

Not sure why you seem to feel offended. What you had described is coaching, not nepotism. Are you suggesting that there is a problem with actual nepotism, and that it is more prevalent in the public sector than in the private sector? Are you suggesting that you’ve seen inferior candidates being hired over more qualified candidates because they had a family member who insisted on hiring them? One would think that the union would’ve had something to say about that since most public employees would greatly resent their bosses’ inept kids being hired on (and, God forbid, promoted) just because of their connections. I see lots of problems with that. Because of the unions, it would be much more difficult to have a culture of nepotism than in the private sector where employees have very little power over these things.

Now, I’m not saying it’s never happened anywhere in public service, but I’ve not seen any real evidence of it. Again, I’ve been in and around it my whole entire life. I have worked in public service, myself (also third generation, and my father and I both worked for very large public employers in L.A. — different employers, and no family “assistance” of any kind). I have lots of family (and friends, acquaintances, etc.) in municipal, county, state, and federal agencies as well, including my husband who is also a long-time public employee. Let me reiterate: I have NOT seen problems with nepotism in public service…it is certainly much less of a problem than what I’ve seen in the private sector. My DH and I discussed this thread last night, and he agrees that it is not an issue that he’s ever seen, either. That’s all I am saying. If you’ve had different experiences, I respect that; but it does not diminish what I have seen and experienced myself (or my husband, other relatives, friends, etc. — and we’ve all talked over the years about public service, hiring standards, best ways to get in, etc.). In the many discussions I’ve had with public employees about the different paths to public service, nepotism has NEVER ONCE come up as a way to get in, nor as a problem that keeps people out.

Additionally, I have never personally seen anyone hired by a department because their powerful relative in another department/agency entered into some kind of quid pro quo agreement with someone there. Not saying it has never happened in history, just saying that this is no more of an issue in public service than it is in the private sector. With respect to the people mentioned in my previous post, NONE OF THEM got favorable treatment in ANY department.

Let’s review how this topic got started: Another poster above (who has never worked directly in public service, and whose consistently clueless remarks shine a bright light on his ignorance) claimed that nepotism is the way most public employees get a government job. That is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever heard about this topic. I was refuting that, and I stand 100% behind what I have stated.

Here’s the quote; you tell me if you think there’s any truth to it at all:

[quote=paramount]

And speaking of being connected, isn’t that how most get govt jobs to begin with…?

The govt has the most discriminatory hiring practices of all employers in the US IMO.

[/quote]

[Author]

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